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Harbinger wrote:
Sort of reminds me of a Rukus...
Reminds me of a Rokon. https://rokon.com/
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Harbinger wrote:
Sort of reminds me of a Rukus...

Dooglas wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
Sort of reminds me of a Rukus...
Reminds me of a Rokon. https://rokon.com/
more like a yamaha bw200 or a honda fat cat
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In Europe there is slow progress ...
But electric scooters are gaining some market share in France, Spain and Italy. The Silent S01 has also been adopted and rebadged by SEAT and is already selling in significant numbers. ECCity is a French company which is in production with a model of similar spec. There is also a Chinese model, the EFUN (aka ERider) Puma which has range and performance claimed to beat the BMW C Evolution but with much lower weight and cost.

At present the limited range is still the biggest drawback. There is no scooter as yet that can combine a real range of over 100 miles while travelling at motorway average speeds along with luggage carrying capacity. For small vehicles big and heavy batteries directly impact efficiency because of relatively low energy density ( both Kw.hours per Kg and Kw.hours per cubic metre ) compared to petrol.
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^^^sounds like battery technology has to get farther to make electric scooters more desirable...if you're not going far and you have locations to plug in then it's a valid option
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Kymco F9
The specs are improving all the time, this time a new electric scoot from one of the big players.


https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/all-electric-kymco-f9-sports-scooter-announced-two-gears
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Re: Kymco F9
RRider wrote:
The specs are improving all the time, this time a new electric scoot from one of the big players.


https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/all-electric-kymco-f9-sports-scooter-announced-two-gears
This is a huge disappointment for me. I was hoping for something as practical as the AK550 not just a styling exercise for urban fashionisters. It is very similar to the KTM that has just been announced and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a link up for manufacturing.
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Re: Kymco F9
RRider wrote:
The specs are improving all the time, this time a new electric scoot from one of the big players.


https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/all-electric-kymco-f9-sports-scooter-announced-two-gears
this is kymco first electric effort. and although the styling is not gonna be a hit for everyone, its leaps and bounds better than vespa first effort. as far as specs and fun is concerned. Wha? emoticon
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Review of NIU electric scooter. Looks great as an urban commuter. Easy recharging. Would seriously consider buying one if it was available here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtnOTWWpCLI
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Ather 450X
Another possible entry.

https://electrek.co/2021/01/13/ather-450x-showcased-at-ces-2021-quickest-two-wheeler-125cc-category/#more-161718

Certainly the price is attractive at ~$2100, although world markets may not see it for some time.

One concern is size of the scooter. Sometimes they are scaled for less-tall riders. Good for low seat-height, but can be cramped for us taller riders.
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Silence Electric Scooters In UK
Now a UK importer for the Silence S01. This scooter is already well tested in europe. It has been in production in Spain for over two years.
https://www.silenceuk.com/
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Thought it was now branded by Seat ?
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Doodlebug10 wrote:
Thought it was now branded by Seat ?
Yes in theory it will be rebadged as the Seat Mo but there aren't any in the UK yet,as far as I know, and probably never will be.
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Another
Another vendor in the value category for motorcycles:

https://electrek.co/2021/01/14/sondors-unveils-80-mph-commuter-electric-motorcycle-that-is-actually-affordable/

As the reviewer mentioned, the range claims are purely optimistic. Obviously there's more room for batteries in the frame. At $100/kWh for batteries, doubling the capacity (and range) would only add another $400.

It'll be interesting to see what the capabilities are for hub motors. Size, cooling, and mass are factors. Makes for a pretty simple, light overall design though, with no transmission, belt, or chain drivetrain parts. I expect rev limitations also determine a relatively low max speed. But who really needs a 150 MPH motorcycle? Perhaps some good opportunities for regen braking as well in stop-and-go traffic, conserving energy and extending city range.

Kinda hard to see how other manufacturers justify $20K-$30K prices.
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RRider wrote:
RRider wrote:
Miguel wrote:
RRider wrote:
RMK delivered a proto to the motorcycle show as promised!

This is still a prototype, albeit fully functional.
The whole core team was present, they and the bike attracted a lot of attention.
Thanks for posting this. The design trend in bikes and cars these days is moving toward sharp edges. GM and Lexus are the notable automotive companies. The BMW R1200RT and C650GT are examples in the motorcycle world. This bike is another example of the sharp edges.

It looks like the drive motor is in the rear hub which doesn't rotate and the wheel revolves around the hub?? I've seem lots of concept bikes do this but are commercially available bikes offering this now?

Have any pictures of the rear while inside the hub and on the other side as well?

Best
Miguel
That's indeed the rear wheel construction - here's a better pic of the desing.
... and the story continues. The company now presented a production ready bike at EICMA, Italy. It is now called Verge TS.... TS coming from Teemu Saukkio, a modest man

As if the proto wasn't grazy enough, they upped the torque figure to 737 ft-lb....

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/380772/verge-motorcycles-hubless-e-bike-eicma/
I've been following this project - and its not all a bed of roses.
This being specced as a premium product, COVID slowed down the progress significantly.
Now the company is back on track again, a bunch of pre-orders in and bureaucrac(z)y about mass manufacturing contiues... estimate for the first deliveries now moved to this summer.

In the meantime, the team has subtly tweaked the bike a bit more towards a 'normal' sports touring bike instead of the cruiser(ish) ergonomical choises of the original... all for the better, I'll say

https://youtu.be/5bK0EffcfGc

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Just got an email on this

https://www.fuell.us/products/fuell-fllow-e-motorcycle

Anyone have opinions on this one or know anything about it?
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prior
A prior article:

https://electrek.co/2020/07/01/erik-buell-fuell-reveals-electric-bike-moped-prototypes/

Seemed to think it had a 10kWh battery ($1500). With a hub motor, kinda pricy. With the larger motor, maybe a lot of rear unsprung weight, too. WIth that much rotating mass, might handle kinda weird at high speed.

In general, the battery tech isn't up to the job, yet. Too much weight, too little capacity. Probably get better in a couple of years.
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I wandered past what was almost certainly a Hodna Grom in the parking lot this morning.

Turns out it's a little ebike, City Slicker from csc motorcycles. Very tidy looking with belt drive.

Shame about the approximately 20-50 mile range.

https://cscmotorcycles.com/city-slicker-black/
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znomit wrote:
I wandered past what was almost certainly a Hodna Grom in the parking lot this morning.

Turns out it's a little ebike, City Slicker from csc motorcycles. Very tidy looking with belt drive.

Shame about the approximately 20-50 mile range.

https://cscmotorcycles.com/city-slicker-black/
Looks like a Grom clone, no matter how long I'll try to ogle it.

I don't know why, but Grom has never really turned me on. Says a guy who has owned an original Honda Monkey and could buy the new one - but Grom is also hard not to like, at least a bit

So, nothing wrong with the shape

I like the idea of small storage area in place of the fuel tank!
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OK enough already.... Seriously "Ninja"? To get that plate it's not even classified as a motorcycle but is an e-bike with all the speed restrictions etc. Man they are getting harder to tell apart. The lack of an exhaust I guess is a good place to start.
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No new bikes this time, but an interesting announcement

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-piaggio-batteries-consortium-idUSKCN2AT1QC
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Harbinger wrote:
OK enough already.... Seriously "Ninja"? To get that plate it's not even classified as a motorcycle but is an e-bike with all the speed restrictions etc. Man they are getting harder to tell apart. The lack of an exhaust I guess is a good place to start.
It does look the part, at least at the first glance
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RRider wrote:
No new bikes this time, but an interesting announcement

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-piaggio-batteries-consortium-idUSKCN2AT1QC
the swappable battery solves one huge problem and creates another.
solves wait time for recharge, which is currently on the huge side.
creates battery condition problem. who owns the battery and who pays for an early failure, etc..
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RRider wrote:
No new bikes this time, but an interesting announcement

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-piaggio-batteries-consortium-idUSKCN2AT1QC
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Gotta say, riding the electric bicycle through the countryside is definitely nudging me towards an electric motorcycle, specifically the Sondors. The idea of riding a nearly-silent vehicle, hearing the birds and other critters, and not driving them off with noise has its appeal. As a secondary use, probably useful as a 'neighborhood watch' vehicle as well, both from a very-cheap-to-ride aspect, as well as lack of warning noise, and ability to hear what's going on.
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Jimding wrote:
Gotta say, riding the electric bicycle through the countryside is definitely nudging me towards an electric motorcycle, specifically the Sondors. The idea of riding a nearly-silent vehicle, hearing the birds and other critters, and not driving them off with noise has its appeal. As a secondary use, probably useful as a 'neighborhood watch' vehicle as well, both from a very-cheap-to-ride aspect, as well as lack of warning noise, and ability to hear what's going on.
I don't have an electric bicycle, but my thinking is going more and more to the same direction.

The last time a changed my car I ended up with a plug-in-hybrid. Kind of gateway drug toward electric vehicles as so many others have told me. A full EV would have been fine for my commuting, but as we use the car for longer trips 'in the middle of the nowhere' too, I do find the availability of petrol engine handy. Still, the range enables back and forth trips to my office with electricity only, as well as all the 'around town' driving during a week.

Now, the noise element is small with a car, but all this has got me thinking about EVs more. I still like to have my internal 'Steve McQueen' moments blasting a way empty countryside roads with an old fashioned motorcycle , but for exploring nature, riding around places with pedestrians... a quiet EV with no exhaust fumes does sound increasingly good to me too.
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I don't know if I would get used to it ...
The thing I remember most when I was a 6-year-old child (my long-term memory works wonderfully well) that at 5 in the morning I was woken up by the subdued to-to-to-to of the Ansaldo oil-powered motor pumps and the noise of the small mopeds (2-stroke) that the farm workers used to go to work on the farms.
Then, slowly the noise of the cars (few) increased, still without catalysts the noise was deep and severe.
We children walked a kilometer of dirt road and when a car passed us it filled us with dust and stinking exhaust fumes; when it rained we had a waxed cape and an ex-military backpack for books.
I remember that at 8 years of age I took bronchopneumonia and risked dying, a Fiat ambulance (the first with a diesel engine) took me to the hospital that slammed you inside and was very noisy (in practice it was an adapted van) and the stench of diesel fumes came from the rear door.
My school teacher arrived every morning with a permanently smashed Fiat 600 D followed by a cloud of white smoke because it burned more oil than gasoline; even after it was turned off, a nauseating refinery stink hovered around it ...
I tell this to say that at that time many people died of cancer for a thousand imagined reasons (there was also asbestos) but no one was sure where it came from.
I am not against electric vehicles but I would like to be sure that in addition to the "hearing benefit" there was more ... We say: there is no going back!
So I would never want to change only to find that only the way to die has changed.

(Yuck! What a crap translation ...)
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Words of wisdom from Mr Fort Nine.
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Was watching one of the car shows this morning, and the mechanics were putting an "exhaust system" on a Tesla. Basically speakers in canisters, with what looked like an exhaust pipe. Evidently programmable with a variety of noises, presumably geared to road speed.

Kinda figured Harley would have a similar 'potato, potato' system on their electric bikes. Although, at the normal volume levels, would cut significantly into range.
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Jimding wrote:
Was watching one of the car shows this morning, and the mechanics were putting an "exhaust system" on a Tesla. Basically speakers in canisters, with what looked like an exhaust pipe. Evidently programmable with a variety of noises, presumably geared to road speed.

Kinda figured Harley would have a similar 'potato, potato' system on their electric bikes. Although, at the normal volume levels, would cut significantly into range.
I had to look this up after reading your post... cracked me up.

Back in the day, I rode my Goldwing to the Sturgis Rally. I made a cassette loop of a Harley exhaust. Oh, for the youngsters here: cassettes were how we played and recorded music back then. Got some laughs when I played it over the bike's stereo.
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jerryd wrote:
the swappable battery solves one huge problem and creates another.
solves wait time for recharge, which is currently on the huge side.
creates battery condition problem. who owns the battery and who pays for an early failure, etc..
With cheap and compact electronics, pretty good chance the battery will have the entire history of use stored on it. Who rented it, how much was it used, when was it charged, etc. And with modern battery management electronics, increasingly difficult to abuse a battery, either charging or discharging it. Some of the Chinese systems sell the bike with or without batteries, so you may always be 'renting' theirs. I presume a base charge, for the energy, and increments for how long you keep it, perhaps with a minimum interval covered by the base charge. Dunno if they pro-rate when the battery starts degrading because of age/use, but a pretty trivial matter to track.

Of course, if you have charging facilities of your own, no need to participate.
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I expect you'll pay something for a battery when buying the vehicle. Then there'll be a standard small charge when you swap. Very similar to the arrangements for Sodastream CO2 bottles, etc.
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Jimding wrote:
Gotta say, riding the electric bicycle through the countryside is definitely nudging me towards an electric motorcycle, specifically the Sondors. The idea of riding a nearly-silent vehicle, hearing the birds and other critters, and not driving them off with noise has its appeal. As a secondary use, probably useful as a 'neighborhood watch' vehicle as well, both from a very-cheap-to-ride aspect, as well as lack of warning noise, and ability to hear what's going on.
Budget eBikes make you the warranty repair station. Sondors also uses connectors on display and harness that are not compatible with easily accessible repair parts. Wanna be self sufficient? Kit your favourite bike.

I sold thousands of dollars in upgrades to disappointed buyers.
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https://m.gpone.com/it/2021/07/16/moto-scooter/ma-quale-e-scooter-ecco-librido-che-fa-400-km-con-un-pieno.html

The first prototype saw the light in June 2021, thanks to the partnership with the energy company STOR-H. The starting point, therefore the own scooter, is the electric AM1. The TGT integrates STOR-H's hydrogen cell technology with the proven Mob-ion platform. Mob-ion will offer the TGT with two engines: the smaller 3 kW (4 HP) engine and the more powerful 6 kW (8 HP). However, if desired, customers can also choose between a 10 kWh lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery or a 16 kWh nickel / manganese / cobalt (NMC) unit.

Hybrid scooter with 400 km of autonomy

The LFP battery reaches a range of 150 km, if used with the 6 kW engine, and a good 250 km with the 3 kW version. The NMC battery, on the other hand, reaches 250 km with the largest engine and an impressive 400 km with the smallest power unit, a result that goes beyond any expectation for such a scooter. In doing so, the batteries go from a four-year guarantee to a total of eight years!

The TGT therefore represents a perfect work vehicle, especially for those who make delivery services. In support of the vehicle, there is an accident detection and GPS navigation system. The company will produce the TGT in France and plans to launch the hydrogen electric scooter by the end of 2021. The TGT equipped with LFP Mob-ion will start at 5,800 euros, while the long-range NMC model with basic set-up will cost 9,800 euros.
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Attila wrote:
https://m.gpone.com/it/2021/07/16/moto-scooter/ma-quale-e-scooter-ecco-librido-che-fa-400-km-con-un-pieno.html

The TGT therefore represents a perfect work vehicle, especially for those who make delivery services. In support of the vehicle, there is an accident detection and GPS navigation system. The company will produce the TGT in France and plans to launch the hydrogen electric scooter by the end of 2021. The TGT equipped with LFP Mob-ion will start at 5,800 euros, while the long-range NMC model with basic set-up will cost 9,800 euros.
Hydrogen fuel cells! I love it. Hope this technology develops!
@attila avatar
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In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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@dooglas avatar
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@dooglas avatar
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UTC quote
Billrush wrote:
Hydrogen fuel cells! I love it. Hope this technology develops!
The trouble with hydrogen fuel cells is how you generate the hydrogen (and how you store it - a different discussion). The most common method uses fossil fuels. The greenest method uses electricity. Then you are using electricity to generate hydrogen and hydrogen to generate electricity. Substantial loss of efficiency along the way.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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@jimc avatar
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Dooglas wrote:
The trouble with hydrogen fuel cells is how you generate the hydrogen (and how you store it - a different discussion). The most common method uses fossil fuels. The greenest method uses electricity. Then you are using electricity to generate hydrogen and hydrogen to generate electricity. Substantial loss of efficiency along the way.
True, BUT if the electricity was otherwise going to 'waste' (wind or tidal turbines at night) then the efficiency isn't that important.
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@dooglas avatar
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jimc wrote:
True, BUT if the electricity was otherwise going to 'waste' (wind or tidal turbines at night) then the efficiency isn't that important.
But isn't that precisely the point of recent interest in cost effective storage battery banks? And the reason for reduced rate incentives to use power at night for charging EVs or for other uses of electricity which can be scheduled during off peak hours?
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