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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
I was looking through some parts catalogs and saw something that fit the Piaggio Liberty Elettrico. I did a bit of searching, and there's not a lot out there about it, except that Piaggio sold them from 2011 to 2017. Does anyone have any information about that bike? It would be interesting to see how they fared and if any are still on the road. I never heard of it until about half an hour ago.
found the Liberty "E-mail" electric. Maybe this is it under a different name? seems to be built for delivers and post etc

https://www.motomobil.at/test-technik/ebikes-pedelecs/274-piaggio-liberty-e-mail-elektroroller-test-fahrbericht-2011
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
So if you don't know what a Kawasaki KLR 650 is, it's about the best bang for the buck if you want a cheap bike that you could throw a leg over and ride around the world. I travelled with someone who's KLR fell out of a canoe in the Amazon and after flushing the engine with diesel fuel and filling it up with oil, he was able to ride it all the way back to Canada. They aren't fast, they aren't fancy, they are the mule of Adventure Touring.
That's why this comparison video makes very little sense to me.

Somewhere a Royal Enfield fanboy is going to be super upset that you dared say a Himaylan or an RE 650 isnt the best bang for the buck motorcycle. Trust me. They get really upset. I got my first death threat ever from one of them. Who sends death threats to people on YouTube? lol
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SteelBytes wrote:
found the Liberty "E-mail" electric. Maybe this is it under a different name? seems to be built for delivers and post etc
Piaggio Liberty E-Mail? SERIOUSLY!?!?

Between this and the MP3, I need to have a word with the Piaggio marketing department, and try to get them to understand the concept of a "search shadow".

Put another way, I think the Piaggio marketing department is staffed by crazed chimps. Seriously, this is just idiotic and self defeating naming.

@#$% idiots!
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UTC quote
If I'm not mistaken the Liberty Elettrico was only sold to the Italian Post Office since Piaggio is their main supplier for many years…

Maybe that's what they were thinking with the name "Elettrico-Mail" -> "E-Mail"

Or they were just drunk and eating pasta… 😂😂😂
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Or they were just drunk and eating pasta… 😂😂😂
I think the reality is that they just don't give a shit.
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UTC quote
Honda Motor China announces Honda Cub e: / Dax e: / ZOOMER e:


Some familiar looking bikes from Hodna.

These are electric bicycles so max speed of 25kph.
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2023/c230110eng.html
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Honda Motor China announces Honda Cub e: / Dax e: / ZOOMER e:


Some familiar looking bikes from Hodna.

These are electric bicycles so max speed of 25kph.
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2023/c230110eng.html
Nice!

I really do hope the word 'affordable' in the sentence

'Although the three EB models announced are part of Honda's plans to "introduce a total of five compact and affordable EM and EB models between now and 2024 across Asia, Europe and Japan, in addition to China,"

is true once something like this land into Europe. I could well use an EB-type of vehicle, but today they are either a)ridiculously expensive for what they really are or b) inferior quality, especially to be used here were half of the year is what many would call winter = harsh environment
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I never imagined an electric Ruckus. I would swear the previous non-production examples of an electric Cub looked way cooler. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what actually ends up hitting the streets.

The Ruckus doesn't look nearly as custom-friendly as the original. But I'm very interested to see if people (try to) go just as crazy with it.
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UTC quote
znomit wrote:
Honda Motor China announces Honda Cub e: / Dax e: / ZOOMER e:

https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2023/c230110eng.html
Weird little battery-assisted pedal bicycles, styled after Honda's popular small motorcycles.

When Honda brings a 125cc equivalent (or higher) electric Zoomer/Ruckus I will sit up and take note.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Piaggio Liberty E-Mail? SERIOUSLY!?!?

Between this and the MP3, I need to have a word with the Piaggio marketing department, and try to get them to understand the concept of a "search shadow".

Put another way, I think the Piaggio marketing department is staffed by crazed chimps. Seriously, this is just idiotic and self defeating naming.

@#$% idiots!
Maybe you are thinking English language use in an English speaking country.

I don't think Piaggio is marketing to the United States postal Service. In other languages it is rather common to use random English words, often out of context, to market products and ideas. I can't begin to imagine who's drawn in by that, but somehow it seems to work.
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UTC quote
giallo wrote:
I don't think Piaggio is marketing to the United States postal Service. In other languages it is rather common to use random English words, often out of context, to market products and ideas. I can't begin to imagine who's drawn in by that, but somehow it seems to work.
Fair point on the postie bike. They're not targeting that at English speakers. But they most certainly are targeting the MP3 at English speakers.

Also, I think they had a prototype at one point they were calling the USB? Can't remember the details.
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UTC quote
jess wrote:
Also, I think they had a prototype at one point they were calling the USB? Can't remember the details.
I'm trying to think of a joke comparing that to Thunderbolt or Lightning alternatives
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
Talking about range...

https://www.advrider.com/sinje-gottwald-completes-cross-africa-route-by-electric-motorcycle/

...or at least how to cope with even a shorter one
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RRider wrote:
Talking about range...

https://www.advrider.com/sinje-gottwald-completes-cross-africa-route-by-electric-motorcycle/

...or at least how to cope with even a shorter one
Considering she took a spare battery, I consider this to be crap

Gottwald was able to bang out roughly 200 kilometers a day as long as she was able to manage a mid-day charge, then an overnight charge
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UTC quote
My friend was fed up with the current options so decided to build his own.
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tige wrote:
My friend was fed up with the current options so decided to build his own.
Nice. What's the range etc?
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SteelBytes wrote:
Considering she took a spare battery, I consider this to be crap

Gottwald was able to bang out roughly 200 kilometers a day as long as she was able to manage a mid-day charge, then an overnight charge
I mean... it's no different from carrying spare fuel.
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Cheshire wrote:
I mean... it's no different from carrying spare fuel.
Except that ...

1. More range in main tank
2. As much as you want in 2nd tank
3. Easy and quick to get refills for both main and 2nd virtually anywhere


PS on today's long ride I did have to use the extra 2 litre fuel bottle that I had strapped between my feet on my gts
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UTC quote
Electricity is not rare, many chargers can handle a range of input voltages
Petrol on the other hand, gets contaminated with water, has deadly fumes & has to be of a certain formulation[octane] to work in a give vehicle
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Gottwald was able to bang out roughly 200 kilometers a day as long as she was able to manage a mid-day charge, then an overnight charge

Hmm. Now let's convert that number to real distances. 124 miles. In a day? I did a day ride at Americade of 172 miles, put 1.8 gallons in my four carburetored motor at 100 miles, had lunch and rode back into Lake George two hours later. Started at 9:00, finished at 3:00.

Sorry. Today's e bikes and scooters are the intake over exhaust motors of the early 1900s.
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Garthhh wrote:
Electricity is not rare
public charging points are in the country eg roadtrips Facepalm emoticon Facepalm emoticon Facepalm emoticon
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SteelBytes wrote:
public charging points are in the country eg roadtrips Facepalm emoticon Facepalm emoticon Facepalm emoticon
A dedicated charging point might be desirable for large EV/car batteries. Many electric two wheelers just do fine on household current -- in most developed nations, finding a working 120 or 220 Volt outlet does not pose much of a challenge, even in the countryside.
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giallo wrote:
finding a working 120 or 220 Volt outlet does not pose much of a challenge, even in the countryside.
You seem to have missed the importance of the word public.

But obviously I'm wasting my time here
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SteelBytes wrote:
You seem to have missed the importance of the word public.

But obviously I'm wasting my time here
I don't know what countries you are referring to, the developed ones I know about have outlets at just about any imaginable place, public or private. Having traveled with electronic gear, I can't attest to that.

On another note, I have a weird feeling that many of us are much excited about living at the dawn of new forms of transportation, while others seem to have somewhat of a dislike of the same circumstances
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giallo wrote:
I don't know what countries you are referring to, the developed ones I know about have outlets at just about any imaginable place, public or private. Having traveled with electronic gear, I can't attest to that.

On another note, I have a weird feeling that many of us are much excited about living at the dawn of new forms of transportation, while others seem to have somewhat of a dislike of the same circumstances
I would have thought obviously the country I live in: Australia. Several months back I did a 290km stretch (190 of which was unsealed) without any fuel stations. Definitely no charging points unless you expect me to knock on farmhouse doors begging to use their private 110/220. Even last weekend I did a 240km stretch and the end of that was a 'one horse town' which I couldn't trust to have fuel.

As I've said in other threads I'm not anti I just don't find the current electric 2 wheel offerings combined with current infrastructure to be anywhere near adequate for my needs although they may be for other riders.


footnote: both of the above mentioned stretches were in 500km days taking 10-12hours due to combination of terrain and stopping and enjoying the enviroment. ie, no time to stop and slow charge
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UTC quote
There's electricity everywhere but even here, say 100 miles from my house, "out in the tules" as the old-timey Californians say, I can't just knock on someone's door and ask to plug in for a few hours, and then hang out on their porch while I wait. It's the lack of public access to the electricity that currently makes anything but commuting hard to pull off.
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giallo wrote:
On another note, I have a weird feeling that many of us are much excited about living at the dawn of new forms of transportation, while others seem to have somewhat of a dislike of the same circumstances
Drifting a bit off topic towards cars,but this is excatly what we discussed with a bunch a colleagues yesterday.

Half of the people around the table had full electric cars. What we concluded, with a friendly laugh,was that the other half was worried about the lack of charging points e.g. in our rural areas, while those how actually drive electric cars were not.

When digging deeper, they all admitted that charging adds an element to the route planning. Certain restaurant/hotel etc. chains sre favoured because of their good charging facilities.

Also, it became clear that with the large car batteries, fast charging was something worth paying for - makes a big difference on a long trip.

I'll admit having well-off 'middle-class' colleagues, but since the last year every new car bought by a colleague has been a full EV. The times they are a-changin' indeed...and rapidly.

Interestingly, none of these colleagues have an electric motorcycle or scooter, a few have ICE ones. Many have electrcially assisted bicycles though..
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
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MIT Electric Vehicle Team Is Working On An Open-Source Hydrogen Bike
https://www.rideapart.com/news/659934/mit-electric-team-hydrogen-bike/
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC quote
So, kind of on topic. The last week or so I've been riding my son's scooter to work a lot.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

It's a lot of fun, but a little slow for my taste. There are a lot of 40mph scooters out there. I may look at one.

But not this one.

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When Americans can travel the country in a n electrical car, truck or motorcycle and be able to arrive where they are going, or back home as well as they would with an internal combustion motor I will agree and join the YEAH electric crowd. All should remember that for the majority of Americans, recharging is a pain in the butt at the least and near impossible many. I earned my living with electricity and would love an electric scooter that would get me to the places I wish to go with the same or even near convenience my Vespa does.
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frank thomas wrote:
All should remember that for the majority of Americans, recharging is a pain in the butt at the least and near impossible many.
There was also a time, at the dawn of motoring, when gasoline wasn't widely available on every corner. And yet somehow, progress took hold and the infrastructure got built.

Nobody expects the transition to happen overnight. I think the objection that some don't have access to chargers yet misses this fundamental point: that we are in transition.
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jess wrote:
There was also a time, at the dawn of motoring, when gasoline wasn't widely available on every corner. And yet somehow, progress took hold and the infrastructure got built.

Nobody expects the transition to happen overnight. I think the objection that some don't have access to chargers yet misses this fundamental point: that we are in transition.
Quite - and the first private adoptees will be mostly be commuters who have a driveway, and probably solar panels as well, as adding those can be at no extra expense than their current electricity bill.

Bus companies and home delivery vans will very rapidly turn to EVs, as this will save them a fortune in energy and maintenance costs, and their normal daily routes are well within the battery's capacity.

This is happening big-time in the UK. I'm over in the UK at the moment in West London, and the old diesel and hybrid single and double-decker buses are rapidly being replaced with fully electric ones.
⚠️ Last edited by jimc on UTC; edited 1 time
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PHEV, for those not willing to go all in, my wife loves hers.
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jimc wrote:
Quite - and the first private adoptees will be mostly be commuters who have a driveway, and probably solar panels as well, as adding those can be at no extra expense than their current electricity bill.
When I was working, I fit that demographic, and so I leased (and then bought) a Fiat 500e. I never bothered with the solar panels, as I was able to charge for free at work as well (which did, in fact, come from a very, very large rooftop solar array).

Now I'm retired, but I still have the Fiat, and still use it as my primary mode of transport -- mostly running errands, etc. I charge it on household 120v, which is slow but I have the luxury of charging overnight.

It's been incredibly cheap to run, too.
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UTC quote
I just traded my 2017 Nissan Leaf for a 2023 Nissan Kicks.

I loved my Leaf but Nissan couldn't find a replacement battery when my capacity dropped to 80% fully charged, triggering the 10 yr/100000 mile warranty. Nissan dithered for a couple of months and finally decided to buy it back, AT FULL PRICE, and they gave me an employee pricing code for $1500 below invoice on the Nissan of my choice.

I would have loved to upgrade to an Ariya but, even with the equity from the Leaf and the employee pricing, it was still too much for my budget, hence the small ICE SUV.

I'll be back in an electric (or PHEV, as mentioned above) sometime in the next couple of years, when our Hybrid Toyota minivan needs a new home. Looks like the Betamax/VHS charging standard battle is consolidating around CCS and Tesla, which should make it easier to travel without having to plan charging stops as closely.
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Turn of last century the automobile was a new tech. EV's took off then dwindled. Both EV and ICE have had comparable time to develop. People wanted the freedom it provided. Today EV is competing, not providing new transportation.
Long distance travel is a wonderful thing. If I break down on my 2 or 4 wheel transportation, it's highly likely it'll be a minor inconvenience.
Many talk like EV's are new and just breaking into mainstream so we need to give em a break. EV's have been around almost as long as ICE.
They are practical for some.
Trips require time and accomodations while many advocates only compare fuel cost.
Similar to true cost of 2 wheelers when some compare true owner/operating cost to autos.
I've been an advocate for EV's since the first issue of Mother Earth News.
I'm sticking with ICE for now. I'm hoping the public transport advocates don't get the upper hand any time soon and legislate all personal transport as illegal to save the earth.
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Ossessionato
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1979 P200E (sold) / ZNEN Amore 150 (sold) / Genuine Buddy 170i / Genuine Stella 4T /Aprilia Sportcity One 50
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2272
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
UTC quote
I've had the 500e for a year and a half now, and it's been one of my favorite cars I've ever owned. Which isn't a huge amount, but it's about 20 or so.

We just took delivery on our new Toyota Corolla Cross last Friday. We did not got with the hybrid because in order to recoup the price differential between it and the ICE version, with the little my wife drives, it would have taken us just over 19 years according to the math. But it's good to have options.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

And I'm glad that I have a garage where I can charge overnight on 110. But I realize not everyone has that option.

But I AM digging this little electric scooter. If it were just. A little. Faster.
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 36981
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 36981
Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
Clampett wrote:
Today EV is competing, not providing new transportation.
The original automobiles had competition. The hint is right there in the (archaic) term: "horseless carriage".
Clampett wrote:
Many talk like EV's are new and just breaking into mainstream so we need to give em a break. EV's have been around almost as long as ICE.
Yes, EVs were present at the dawn of the age of automobiles. And then all progress on them stopped for around 100 years. So I think your statement is misleading, at best.

By your reading of history, we should have steam-powered cars right now that are every bit as good as the ICE ones. But we don't. Funny, that.
Clampett wrote:
I'm hoping the public transport advocates don't get the upper hand any time soon and legislate all personal transport as illegal to save the earth.
It would appear to me that this kind of sentiment, while not exactly unique to Southern states, certainly is more prevalent from our friends in the South. Along with similar sentiments about everyone being out to "murder" you on the freeway, or the government taking your property (usually of the firearm variety), I have to admit that I am perplexed by the dire predictions about what everyone else is going to do to you which seem to come primarily from the South.

Is it just that the heat and humidity makes people cranky? Or that the South is more predisposed to listen to fear-mongering on the TV? Or maybe life is really that much worse in the South. Which begs the question: why live there?

I really don't understand all these straw-man fictions about what other people are going to force on you.
⚠️ Last edited by jess on UTC; edited 1 time
@dooglas avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13335
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@dooglas avatar
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13335
Location: Oregon City, OR
UTC quote
Like most any other US household, we own 2 cars (and several scooters for that matter ). One of the cars is an EV and the other is a hybrid. I've been drivng an EV for 10 years now. As Jim notes, I do have my own driveway and garage which simplifies charging substantially. I rarely charge the EV anywhere but at home. It has saved me a great deal of money in reduced maintenance and by using electricity instead of gasoline.

I don't need to wait for someone to install thousands of additional commercial chargers to allow me to drive from Portland to Denver or Albuquerque. I am reaping the benefits of the substantial savings of the EV right now (and for the past 10 years) - and if we want to drive to Denver we will take the hybrid. Plus we do also have solar on the roof which means we have mostly been immune to the last couple of substantial hikes in electrical rates as well. Life is good.
@giallo avatar
UTC

Addicted
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: NYC
 
Addicted
@giallo avatar
GTS 300 hpe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 791
Location: NYC
UTC quote
If we are going to really want to preserve this planet as it is right now, we will have to consume less. That means less private and more public transportation.

Electrification of private and public transport is happening and will further accelerate, though having multiple cars per household is simply not sustainable in the long run, no matter what the source of energy is. If we are to survive as humanity, we will have to do that with more public transport and better last mile solutions than what we currently have in most places.
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