Modern Vespa

Yeah but it is a direct rip off of a small framed Vespa isn't it.

Not what you call radical. More of a lazy rip off.

Bill x

Yep! If you actually read the article (ATTN: Bill Dog), the author makes some important points:

"Regarding the design of the new Bajaj Chetak, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, there's a reason that so many electric scooter makers follow Vespa's design cues. Their scooters look good.
...
At the end of the day though, I just want to see more of these electric scooters on the road. Once adoption rates increase, then we'll have the luxury of worrying about imaginative designs."

This scoot likely won't make it to the US, but if it does, it will be serious competition for the Vespa Elettrica, given what will likely be a significantly lower price point. See quote above about the popularity of Vespa styling. There IS something pretty radical about this bike and that is the features offered for their projected price point. Obviously, the price will be higher in the US than the $2k projected price in India, but it will still come in far lower than the Elettrica, which would make it very attractive to many riders who value the Vespa aesthetic but can't stomach the price.

Read the article and it's still a lazy copy of a Vespa no matter how much you justify it.

Heavily inspired = Stolen, hook line and sinker.

Look at the Zapp. It's original and it hasn't been heavily inspired so it can be done if you try just a little bit.

Why not make an attempt and create something original rather than steal someone else's idea because it's a popular look ? Oh because it doesn't take any amount of creativity to do that and they can't be bothered.

My objection is........ they can't be bothered.

Enough said.

Bill x

Look, I get it.

Save yourself a bunch of money, time and bother by taking a design that's very popular and dressing it up as your own but as a business practice is that a good way to carry on ?

It's plagiarism plain and simple even with the sparky bits.

Bill x

Not exactly about motorcycles or scooters yet. I would much rather see developments like this than finding ways to stick an electric motor and battery in an existing scooter frame. My main concern with hub motors is that you are right back at the main handling problem with scooters, unsprung weight.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49958457

Wheels of fortune? A new age for electric motors
By Emma Woollacott

When it comes to making electric cars better, it's the batteries that you'll hear about the most.

But what about the motor that actually drives the car?

Car enthusiasts have long-obsessed about what is under the bonnet of a traditional car, but in the electric world the motor gets little attention.

That might be about to change, according to Dave OudeNijeweme, head of technology trends at the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC), a joint venture between the UK government and the automotive industry.

He says improvements in motor technology are set to have a profound effect on the performance of electric vehicles in the coming years.

"Electrification is based on three main pillars: batteries, electric motor and the powertronics [the power management system]," he says.

"It's not all about batteries. They do get a lot of headline news but the motors and the powertronics are absolutely key."

And with new technologies, from 3D printing to in-wheel motors (IWMs) that allow a car to spin on the spot, electric motors could be grabbing more of the limelight.

Most electric car motors follow the same basic principles, tightly wound coils of wire interact with powerful magnets to create rotation.

But despite a relatively simple set-up, there's still plenty of room for improvement.

"The power of a motor goes up with its speed. What you want to do is spin it as fast as possible in order to make it as small as possible - but then you get into problems of cooling," says Ian Foley, managing director of British motor manufacturer Equipmake.

"The limitation now on how you improve the performance of electric motors, is how effectively you can get the heat out of them."

Equipmake's solution is to rearrange the motor's magnets so that they're positioned like the spokes of a wheel.

This not only increases torque (the force which causes rotation), says Mr Foley, but also makes the magnets more accessible, so that cooling water can be run directly over them.

The company is also now using additive manufacturing - 3D printing - to improve cooling and also cut costs.

"There are two main benefits we'll get from additive manufacturing. One is that you can integrate multiple components, so you end up with a much lower component count because things that would previously have been bolted together are all in one piece," says Mr Foley.

"The other main thing is the issue of cooling.

"In order to cool you need much more effective heat exchanges, and with additive manufacturing you can effectively increase the surface area inside the motor for the cooling surfaces and therefore get much greater cooling potential."

The company is expecting to have its motors in production in around 18 months' time, initially selling them for use in supercars and electric buses - where they're efficient enough to be able to run all day on a single charge. It has already signed a deal with Brazilian automotive manufacturer Agrale.

And other manufacturers are thinking about a more radical shift.

In most electric cars, the motor is found on one axle and in four-wheel drive cars there will be two motors, one on each axle.

But some companies are working on a radical redesign, placing motors in the wheels themselves.

According to Chris Hilton, CTO of Protean Electric, in-wheel motors improve handling because the performance of each wheel can be finely controlled.

"They also lower the overall centre of gravity and help to reduce weight and optimise weight distribution in the vehicle," he says.

"Also, because IWMs are located in the wheel, there are minimal losses in transmission of the torque to the road, meaning they are more efficient. This means greater vehicle range, or the same range from a smaller battery."

Protean's technology is currently being tested by manufacturers of passenger cars, commercial vehicles and even autonomous "pods".

Another firm working on in-wheel motors is Japan's Nidec, which announced its prototype earlier this year.

According to Nidec, the motor has a long list of advantages, not all of them obvious - less noise, for example, thanks to fewer moving parts.

But perhaps the biggest advantage is space. "Cars that use in-wheel motors don't need a motor compartment," says the firm.

"Also, with the elimination of the drive shafts, the wheels can rotate freely. For example, it becomes possible to rotate the wheels 90 degrees and drive to the left or the right, or even rotate in place, instead of just driving forward or backward. This adds another dimension to how the car can move around and makes it easy to navigate tight spaces."

APC has set out a roadmap of how it sees electric motors developing; and, by 2025, it expects costs per kilowatt to almost halve, while power density triples.

"For the same amount of power they generate, they'll weigh a third as much and be one third of the package size as well. At the same time the costs will reduce," says Mr OudeNijeweme.

"The electric motor will dramatically change. I don't know how quickly, but ten years from now it will be unrecognisable from what you see today, not in how it looks - but in what it does."

I like this rig, I could get the bamboo deck and sideboards and have an electric mini 2 wheeled Ape

... and back to the future: BST hyperTEK.

https://bst-hypertek.com/

... and the story continues. The company now presented a production ready bike at EICMA, Italy. It is now called Verge TS.... TS coming from Teemu Saukkio, a modest man

As if the proto wasn't grazy enough, they upped the torque figure to 737 ft-lb....

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/380772/verge-motorcycles-hubless-e-bike-eicma/

That is a REALLY impressive bike: 120 miles highway/130 city, fast charge, and I'm guessing it goes 0-60 mph in under 2 seconds, 25K Euros/$27.5K. Sheesh.

Best
Miguel

There is nothing to compare to the Vespa Elletricca

I am pretty sure I misspelled that.

Nowhere can I find the size/capacity of the battery pack. So I'll reserve judgement on the range claim. One site pointed out that, with torque gain from a gearbox, a rear-wheel torque of 737 lb-ft is not unusual on current sport bikes. Not clear from the pics if that is a single-side swingarm or not. If not, I bet the rear-wheel removal process is arduous. If so, looks a bit wimpy/flexy. I also question bearing longevity (and drag), as, with the bearings running at the periphery of the hub, linear speed is much higher. Not sure how they'll weather-seal those bearings either. And very possibly, to achieve sufficient rigidity (assuming it actually provides it) the unsprung weight is higher than with a convention axle. As there appears to be no rear brake, I hope they got the regen braking right. Hopefully they included a pressure sensor on the front brake circuit to balance braking. Or maybe they're using an accelerometer.

As Clint says, "A hell of a price to pay for being stylish".

I guess we'll see when ride reports come out.

I'd like to quote Dick Jones at this point -

Who cares if it worked or not.

It's a compliment by the way

Bill x

I confess my abysmal ignorance but i'm curious ... who is (or was) Dick Jones?

Richard ( Dick ) Jones was Vice President of Omni Consumer Products.

Fact.

Bill x

Yeah, I guess the guys just forgot that motorcycles are bought based on rational facts only

I personally do like the hub -motor, exactly the kind of boldness that is nice to see when one is not limited with a combustion technology.

Not a new idea though, it is in use e.g in industrial electric equipment....for those it enables interesting turning circles.

My electric unicycle arrived yesterday. I'll admit I had forgotten to mention to the wife that I was getting a another toy but figured I might be able to just hide it in the garage. Sadly it arrived when I wasn't in and her only comment was "an electric unicycle? really?"

I figured it would only take me a minute to get back to where I was before but I was wobbling and waving my arms around wildly for the first half hour and my longest journey was the width of a tennis court. After an hour I'd managed to do 2 complete circuits of the tennis court without falling. I haven't been helped by the tyre being a little under inflated but none of my pumps will connect to the damn thing (I've now ordered a valve extender of Amazon).

I figure it's going to take me a week of practise to actually look like I'm fully in control but it promises to do all my local trips electrically. On the plus side it's fairly cheap for an exciting toy, it costs nothing to charge, there's no maintenance required (maybe occasionally inflate the tyre), there's no pollution and it's small enough to fit under a desk. On the minus side it's fairly terrifying to learn and you just have to accept that you're going to fall at some point. Most of all, it just feels like the future.

System Crash

... i thought the same with my first mobile phone ...
I was wrong, i would be a new kind of slavery.
Bill is right, i'm becoming a "luddite".

I actually see those things around here often enough. Almost always Asian guys for some reason but it could be they are more on top of these kind of toys. It's also usually in the part or town most of the tech companies are. I have to say those things can get up to a pretty good speed. The problem is all these things use the bike lanes and all of them are faster than a cyclist for the most part. Rush hour on the bike lanes is really something to see.

... an electric transformer with wheels ..? Nah ...

It's difficult for the authorities to know how to classify them. With electric bicycles, in many countries, they've simply said the power will only come on to assist the rider and then only to 24kmh (about 17mph). As it happens that's the max speed of my electric unicycle. It would be nice if they said that would be the speed limit for all small electric vehicles unless the rider has a driving license and valid insurance in which case they could ride up to 50kmh (30mph) on the road. Problem is you can't even get insurance so electric unicycles are either stuck in a loop hole or are simply banned. It's a shame really as they are quite a good way of getting about.

... and pictures?

I'm still impressed, sounds like fun, but also not so easy!

Locally our pavement looks pretty war-torn, with patches on top of patches, and potholes prevalent throughout the year. I'd be dubious about a unicycle on that surface. Even riding a conventional bicycle is arduous and hazardous. Most of the e-scooter riders flock to the sidewalks for that reason, even though that is technically illegal.

Speaking of which, I'm keeping an eye on the e-bike market. Not gonna spend motorcycle money ($5K) on a bicycle, but the options seem to be getting better in the $1K-$2K range. The local bike trails are getting pretty extensive, parking in some areas is becoming highly difficult/expensive, if not impossible, and I don't have the cardio fitness (or potential) for a conventional bike. Might even use it for short errands that I presently do on the scooter. Most e-bikes have a 20 mile range or better, and I do a fair number of trips of only 2 or 3 miles.

My wife and I have e-bikes. SSR Trail Vipers. I got a new hip 7 months ago, and it has changed how I ride. Prior to the new hip, I used the pedal assist on about 3 (out of 5) to make the pedaling easier. Riding trails and hills, I would get about 25 miles on a charge. Currently, I am doing more of the pedaling, with the assist on level 1 and the bike in 3rd gear. That equates to about 10 mph and easily getting 40 miles with the battery still on half.

I only mention this to say that the range is definitely use variable. I have used mine to run errands (a couple miles to the Post Office or store and back), but mostly it has been to get daily exercise, and we take them when traveling to ride Rails to Trails or bike paths - it's a great way to see a new area at slow speed.

These have a twist throttle so you can use them like an electric scooter. No idea what the range with throttle only would be, but certainly significantly reduced from using just pedal assist. I haven't used mine that way, but I do use the twist throttle when starting off uphill or in gravel.

We have had ours for about 3 1/2 years, and they have held up well. We paid $1,200 each, with the 350w rear hub (only option when we bought ours). If you use just the twist throttle, it will top out around 20 mph; I have gotten mine up to 25 in 6th gear on the bike and level 5 throttle assist.

These are fat tire folding bikes. The folding makes it easier to put them in the back of a small SUV, the fat tires are good on trails and also ease the butt-thumping on less than smooth pavement.

Hope that gives some user insight for you.

Doesn't using the electric power from a battery to power yourself feel like erm.......cheating ?

Bill x

Video - I'll post one when I've got something that doesn't look too embarrassing (maybe never at the current rate of improvement). Yesterday I hit a speed wobble at the wild speed of about 6mph, I'm guessing the wobble was caused by my legs over compensating the movement. I did manage to ride all the way down my local road before getting dumped though.

Wheely curious - these unicycles can do unpaved road etc but you have to be fairly experienced and there's still a moderate risk. Many modern wheels have 16" tyres that are 3" wide and these seem to absorb most bumps - I've also seen riders riding down stairs as if it's a straight road. There are also 18" wheels that seem fairly capable of riding across potholes etc. A Onewheel might be an alternative choice though.

Thanks for the review. I tend to be a bit on the big and tall side (6'4", 230 lb) so part of the issue will be getting a frame big enough and strong enough. I'm sure I'll opt for a non-folding, full-size frame. I'll probably stay away from the fat-tired bikes, but a motorized mountain bike would allow taking some of the off-road trails here. I understand that the mileage estimates will likely be highly optimistic. And, like an electric car, if you are willing to slow down, you can stretch the range.

Not even a little. Cheating at what? Since I am riding by myself most of the time, there certainly is no "race." Is using the motor in your motorcycle cheating? I have another smaller folder (non-e), and the workout I get with the e-bike is better. If I choose to go faster, I can dial in more pedal assist. If I want no pedal assist, that is also an option.

For the record, you are not the first who has proposed this. Makes no sense. What the pedal assist DOES do is keep the pedal pressure consistent. It allows you to cover more distance in the same time (more pedal assist = faster speed). It allows you to go uphill or into the wind with consistent pedal pressure (similar to downshifting any geared bike, but without losing speed).

The only people who have suggested "cheating" are people who have never ridden an e-bike. They don't know what they don't know.

I totally get that you enjoy taking the contrarian position around here, and that is certainly your choice. I try to be non-confrontational unless the situation deems it necessary. Rather than attempting to put down something you don't understand, I'd suggest you rent or borrow an e-bike and see what they are all about. At that point, you'd at least have a frame of reference and likely realize what a ridiculous comment "cheating" is. But, some people would rather make uninformed comments rather than learn something new.

This one caught my eye. https://thegrizzled.com/40-greatest-military-motorcycles/

Typo? I don't think I'm buying that 3,500 hour claim. Total life expectancy maybe, not last that long riding it

Er - 3,500 hours is only just under 150 days. I'm sure it'll still read fully charged after that time. This IS under the assumption it's not used or re-charged in the meantime.

So holds a good charge unused for 3,500 hrs; NOT batteries can last for 3500 hrs of usage w/ recharging , or several hundred cycles presumably. Makes sense, but battery LIFE info should be given as well and the terms used more clear. Probably a translation, but an interesting variation regardless.

Current technology EV batteries hold a charge for quite a while when parked or in storage. I have an EV and have left it parked for as long as 45 days (1000 hours) and it is at the same charge level when I return that it was at when I left.

Jeez, cheating who? I'm full on with eBikes, around a half dozen herd and scores of builds. Pretty nifty gadgets.

BTW, long time between reads from you, hoping you're hanging in!

I dunno. More and more I'm liking a classic smoker electrified. Thoughts? Or is that criminal mischief?

Different chemistries kind of matter. Storage is good within specific parameter. Typically 50 % of operating range. Lithium batteries hate heat and are happiestvat proper ale Temperatures. (No frosty mugs of sex in a boat.)

Cheating myself I guess as apart from transport aspect the primary reason that I use a bicycle is to exercise.

The more electrical assistance I have the less excursion I'm putting in so it defeats the object.

I want to cycle up a hill or into a head wind because it gives me a better work out not press a button when it all gets too much.

Oh. and I'm putting forward a point of view. I'm not contradicting you.

Also I can make a judgement on a subject without trying it for myself - take wearing a onesie for instance. I don't need to try one on to know that I'm not going to enjoy it.

Bill x

The amount of assistance you get is usually set by the user. I used to have a standard bike and it always sat at the back of the garage simply because I had more fun toys to play with. A few years back I damaged my knee while playing tennis and figured cycling might help get it back in shape. I bought myself an electric bicycle because it helped take the stress off the knee but I found myself using the bike all the time, it was actually great fun and I got far more exercise because of it.

With arthritis in my left knee and right hip, having some assistance with the worst of hills means that cycling is still an option as I still need to pedal, but with less impact on my joints needed. If we say that electric assistance is cheating, aren't we also saying that gears are cheating?

"More exercise..." is a common theme for eBikers in similar situations. I'm thinking 90% of the DIY bike conversions we sell are to the 58-80 y/o former cyclists.