Modern Vespa

This happened to me twice now this week. All it takes is a tiny amount of this stuff where the front wheel is, and if you break or turn you are going down.

What can be done to reduce the risk or eliminate it?

Hi Sunbox,

I've never ridden on snow and have only fallen off when travelling over ice!, but I gather SIP store sell the HEIDENAU K58 SNOWTEX which are supposed to grip well when riding on snow. Some members apply grip studs to their tyres, again I am not the person to ask, but I am sure someone will come along soon with better advice.

Used to ride to work in the winter when i was young. You have to do everything very slowly.

Loose snow is one thing, and ice or snow packed into an ice layer on the pavement is something different in my experience. I used to own a Ural, which handles ice and snow much better than a Vespa ever will. Even in that case, snow tires help you get through snow, but ice is ice. If you have no traction, it is just a matter of time before you slide. On a PTW, you slide and you go down.

I was a motorcycle courier in Washington DC and you just don't use your brakes. Used gears to slow down not brakes. Problem is you don't have gears, so use rear brake very lightly and try coasting to a stop. Try and stay in the snow and off the ice.

Not to sound like an asshole here, I don't know your personal situation. My way of eliminating the risk is not riding when there's any chance of the slippery stuff out there.

I agree. Unless you have to get out in it, don't.

My thoughts exactly. Risk to reward ratio is just too far off.

Just my opinion tho.

My thoughts exactly. Risk to reward ratio is just too far off.

Just my opinion tho.

I'd reduce the risk but just not doing it.

Bill x

I remember years ago I went out for a bicycle ride in the winter, I was going to go trail riding where I usually went. Pretty day, some snow on the trail, but some packed snow and ice on the dirt road approaching the beginning of the trail. I looked at it, lined myself up, and before you could blink I was laying on my side.

Nothing broken, just a bruised hip, and I laughed myself silly for being so stupid.

Let's just say I haven't tried that again.

Yep...

Winter riding for commuting purposes is pretty rare around here.

I just saw today a young looking guy riding a 125cc KTM Duke.
He rode so damn fast, that I had to rush in order to see his tyres at the next traffic lights.
I did, strong looking studs on the back tyre clearly visible.

He went like a racer on the very icy, slippery road. Then he turned on a smaller side road, let his feet tangle on snow and kick for support once snd awhile.


So, if you're 20 something and have good bike with large diameter tyres and studs, you're good to go.

Otherwise I'd be quite carefull, it can be slippery out there.

Even cars do not due well on ice. All the four wheel dive in the world will not
help on ice. Two wheels - "I am not a smart man Miss Jenny!".

Forest Gump

Two wheels can be dangerous slip wise even in non winter! I was in a small Mexican town looking for lodging on a rainy day and between cobble stones and regular pavement I was barely able to keep my MC upright at a stop. it got so scary I left town and looked elsewhere.
On bicycles or PTW's gravel or sand can be dangerous or either of those loose on paved roads too.
There is a time to not ride PTW's and any freezing weather with moisture involved your playing dangerously. Not my idea of a time to play macho.
In Chicago traffic it's worse yet! Dumb idea IMO.

From someone who rides year round I can confirm that you are screwed on ice. I have the winter tyres but haven't tested them much as there is a problem with the Vespa and I need to swing by the dealer. I usually ride the BMW in the winter anyway but on days where the roads are crap but not THAT crap I will take the Vespa. One advantage is I'm going from a 650 pound bike to a 300 pound Vespa with a lower seat. I find the Vespa very easy to control and I can get my feet down (I'm 5'11"). Being able to use your feet sort of gives you 4 wheels but you need to see the slippery stuff coming up and know how to steer out of a fishtail. Doesn't happen much with the ASR which works surprisingly well BUT it needs to be small patch of ice with dry pavement up ahead. A big patch if you hit at speed... well good luck to ya.

So while I'm not nearly as averse to winter riding as most here I don't recommend it unless the roads are dry and you have better than average riding skills. I've taken a few advanced courses and they really do help.

The consensus here seems to be: Avoid If Possible.

My one (little) incident on Melody was almost exactly one year ago. I was working that day in Gotham, and while there was a snowstorm projected to hit later that night, I was planning to get on a train out of the city in time that evening and reach the station where she was parked either before the storm hit or, worst-case scenario, just when it was starting. Didn't go as planned: job took a good deal longer than expected, and by the time I got to the bike, several inches had fallen already. Worse, it was a mix of sleet and freezing rain - I had six miles to ride, and it was pretty much touch-and-go the entire route, with a few slips-and-slides where I somehow managed to keep her upright. All was okay until I was two blocks from home, and remembered that while the city had finally gotten around to repaving work on our street, they only managed to get the bottom chipseal layer in before weather stopped them. This, combined with sleet and freezing rain, was serious Ice Capades stuff, and I decided to bring the bike down from an almost-crawling 5-6mph to a creeping 3mph...and that's precisely when I lost it. Damage was thankfully extremely light - just a few small scrapes to the underside...the crashbars kept Mel's haunches unscathed. Other than a few strained muscles, I was fine. I picked myself up, used myself off, gingerly picked the bike up (engine still running), and dog-paddled with just the slightest application of throttle to our driveway, where, after two attempts to ride it to its designated perch (on an incline), decided to leave it at the curb till later that morning.

I've had far worse wipeouts riding bicycles, though, one in Winter, the other in Summer: the first was a black-ice situation in an otherwise innocent-looking intersection in Brooklyn where I lost traction with no warning whatsoever, hitting my left ass cheek hard, and somehow destroying the laptop in my backpack at the same time...not a great night. The Summertime incident occurred in midtown Manhattan, also at an intersection, right after coming to a stop for a light: When the light changed, I got on the pedals, then felt the bike slowly go sideways and bam, I'm on the ground. (Trust me, even at zero-mph, falling off a bicycle while in riding position can hurt - lots.) Turns out a truck delivering restaurant supplies spilled one of those large cans of cooking oil on a wide patch of the street, and I was caught unawares. Something to remember the next time you find yourself on two wheels near your local Restaurant Row.

If there's a Snow Godzilla or Ice Zombies and you have no other way out of town than on your Vespa, this usually works...
Stay upright, sit back, and feather the rear brake. Don't use the front brake very much. Stay in the part of the road the cars have broken up.
Don't lean in corners.
Go slow.
If it gets away from you, let it go.

I had something like that happen on a group ride to an arts district in Los Angeles. It started to rain just before we left, this after months of drought. Oil and fuel and whatnot had accumulated on the street that was the exit from the area, and brought it all to the surface. The pavement may as well have been covered in cooking oil for all the traction that was available. At least one bike went down, and I was white-knuckling it myself until I got clear of that two-block section.

So, always wait for 15-30 minutes of rain so residual oil on the pavement gets flushed away.

My approach is to keep the handlebars straight, feather the rear brake. but at no point turn the engine on and start riding.

I commuted 365 on 12" scooter wheels in Ohio.
Here, it is not possible to ride in traffic on winter roads - the cars will cut you no slack in the snow.
I walked, bummed rides, took the bus.
You live in Chicago? Use public transportation.....almost nonexistent in small Ohio towns.
Run an ad in the paper to pay for a ride with a car owner.
O.S.

In my early 20's one winters morning whilst out riding my bicycle, I took a sharp left-hand bend doing no more than about 5 mph. I hit a patch of black ice, fell off and fractured the neck of my left femur. Two wheels and ice is a bad combination

I found a wheel that works great with ice!

https://www.alcoholprofessor.com/blog-posts/blog/2013/06/28/the-gin-wheel

The real benefit is after a few you aren't going anywhere anyway.

Snowed last night . 4th day this winter where I have to walk to where I'm going.

Two Scary Words: Wintery Mix.

Had a gig to do in Gotham today, so I spread out a little de-icer on the driveway last night as a precaution, even though the forecast was for a "light" amount of precipitation, albeit a cocktail of snow/sleet/freezing rain (never mind the minutiae of what the hell the difference is between the latter two); I woke up to snow on the front lawn and back yard, but the roads seemed largely clear, so I screwed up a bit of courage and took Melody for the six-mile run to Long Branch to catch a train. Other than a patch of what seemed a mix of ice and road salt (where Mel's traction control kicked in...yes, traction control is golden, and I can switch it off whenever, to boot), the ride was uneventful, and, given the curious lack of traffic this morning, fairly fast. And, since the bike's likely to be idle until toward the end of next week (even though it looks like AP will take less of a hit than Gotham and environs), it was nice to get rolling today.

I do like your thinking...decided to enjoy a bit of that aprés-scoot tonight.

You do understand the laws of physics, specifically Newton's laws of motion are immutable?

Your ability to stop and steer depend on the inertial force being less than the coefficient of friction between your tires and the road surface.

The only thing you can do when things get slippery is slow the hell down, make sure all steering, braking and acceleration are done slowly and gradually. Brake early.

If you do slide, do not do anything sudden or drastic. Keep your upper body loose and go with it, use gentle correction to try to straighten out.

Snow and ice would be a welcome relief as our roads are melting under the sun.
https://www.qt.com.au/news/roads-melt-as-heatwave-escalates-across-parts-of-a/3625210/

Thanks for sharing...

Sun ain't do nothing here... - 16C (3,2F) at the moment...

Just "natural selection" . . those riding in winter conditions provide a ray of hope for those waiting for organ donations.

We are in the calm between storms but lively to loo at this morning.

leave it in the shed and take the truck

In some areas they are known as "liquorcycles" or "DWIcycles". Some folks just may not have a choice. I don't believe you need a license for anything under 50cc.

Best machine I even owned for riding in the white stuff was a Ural with a hack on it. The set up had traction in both back wheels. Slow bike, but it was a fun ride. The few times I hit black ice with it were not nearly traumatic as being on two wheels. One time I spun 180 degrees around facing traffic coming towards me. Good times

That's what the dog says too.

The dog has a look of "And why are we doing this"

I wimped out and turned around

Wise call, looking at the road in your pic.

That's a nice view!

I don't know how lively it is in the loo, but that is a great view.

Lol! The loo is whatever you make it. The view however is absolutely stunning.

I'm not sure if there were typos made but I can tell you that Apple has had me type some epic typos and spellcheck is both a curse and a blessing. Mostly a curse though. *sigh* I just had to correct "mostly" as Apple obviously thought I meant moistly... WTH? Why do I care if something is moist as opposed to most?