Modern Vespa

Your friend's VBB looks sick. Clear over bare??? Got more pics?

And I am paying attention CM and Jack. Promise.

Jack - good question - not sure - but here is a photo I previously took.
Forgot I had shot that.
You can see the hole and how I ovalized/ dremeled back.

Also - shot some speed runs - posting on Sime's GSF thread with some question.
But I will post one link here - you can hear what 45/160 1 turn out sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKOQIaS_jwE

BTW - related to main - WOT - pinned in that video 3rd for 5 seconds at max RPM - or so - head temps sat at 200° while I ran.
When I slowed down at stop light afterwards - it crept up to 225° then dropped again right away to 200° before the light turned green.

EDIT: I drilled out a 40/130 and made it a 40/156. Pretty well same results. The mixture screw does not seem to have any effect until it reaches 1 turn out.

Added the 4 stroking video - this is the 40/156 idle jet at 1 turn.
https://youtu.be/gR5YWKJRf2Y

I think that's low enough with the pilot. If 40/160 (no idea how you measure 1.56mm, electron microscope?) doesn't fix it, then its something else.

Sounds like your main jet is too big. Those 3rd gear runs all sound spluttery and the way the dyno chart comes out all wavy is how it sounds. 200F CHT sort of confirms its rich. They always CHT increase when you stop.
Maybe a very careful WOT run with a 128 main jet? See if its any better. If its this the pilot will suddenly go weak, so be ready.

The main is rich - I'm thinking as well.
The temp was the give away - but so was the way it didn't want to wind a little higher at the top in my opinion.

I figured worth running anyhow.
More interested in figuring out how to operate the software right now - than figure a true max.
Better to not blow up the motor trying to figure that out or it gets tougher to test anything...

Coming from classic 4 cylinder cars - the idea of running as hard as you can at redline just still feels - well - weird.
Had to give myself permission to just hold it WOT for 5 seconds like that with guy hand on the clutch.
But I don't think its revving out - and temps so low.

I could go to 130 (im 132 now). Is that what you meant?
I'll pop a fatter idle back in first.
Thoughts on the slide? Play with jetting bit more first?

Tks.
-CM

Forgot about the slide. Yes, that's the right one. Cut out top and bottom. 04 written on the top, probably.

I meant skip 130 and go to 128. Sounds way too rich, might even go less. If it is never at WOT for more than 5 seconds it won't have time to seize up.

Upping the pilot first, probably a good idea. 45/160 is what I am thinking will be the final one.

There are a few major differences between old cars and old scooters. I have built several old cars from chassis in my time. 2 strokes and 4 strokes are totally different, when a 4 stroke is at high rpm it is getting abused, when a 2 stroke is screaming it loves it. No damage whatsoever, if its set up right. They just can't be over revved, as they self limit when the blowdown runs out. So thrash away with impunity (once fully run in).

Since my Jack rule is: divide by 2, I will throw in the 130 then try the 128.
Don't worry - my SoCal rule is multiply by 2.

🙂

Thanks for taking the time/input.
Will go toy with the MJ.
Perhaps do another run.
Keep all setting the same on the GSF data.
And see what kind of results I get in comparison.
Will be interesting to see if that cleans up my endless 4stroking.
Sounds like an adult movie title.
Cheers.
-CM

Pheas' - good to see you lurking. Hope all's well out your way.

Think I have an issue causing the 4 stroking - and my Dremel Mia Francis Ford Coppola work on the outlet side remains suspect.

Dropped down to 130MJ - then 128.
45/160 Idle jet back in.
Felt lean at WOT.
Less not more power up high.
4 stroking ever present down low.
BTW - Temps on WOT runs pinned in 3rd for all three jets are the same. 200°. Moves up to 225 on slow down and rest - then drops back down.
Can't imagine going leaner than 128 - felt the "cough" moving from idle to main at middle.

The tell tale for me is: no matter what idle jet I put in - 1/8th throttle is just a mess of machine gun fire.
There is also no discernible difference turning the screw - with any jet - until about 3/4 to 1 turn out.
So - yeah - I can get it to race - If I fire the screw in to 0 turns - with some of the idle jets more than others - but once past 3/4 turns - it might as well be a Q tip. No difference.

Stopped by Bar Italia at the end of a little run. Kristian - who has gone from begrudgingly allowing my bodge to park at his place to genuine curiosity - my adjective - not his - hooked me up with a 24/24 carb body and 4.0 slide.
It is older style - would have to plug the idle air auxiliary hole - and the mixture screw is coarse - not fine.

What say you on drilling the float bowl hole to 2.? and cramming the bits from my carb in it float top and all.

And maybe a wee bit of Dremel work on the outlet...
🙂

Well this is not going to plan but do they ever? Can you see how low the main jet has to go before the 4 stroking at 1/8 stops. Nothing will happen if you don't ride WOT too hard.

Not keen on the old style carb. If the mixture screw is shutting off at zero turns then this one is working. Just getting bleed over from the main stack. For the 1/8 4 stroking, either float level too high, float needle leaking or main jet too big. There is nothing else.

Keep dropping the main jet until it goes away. See where the cut off is. 118 is about the minimum to drop to.

I can go down on main - but it felt like I was taking it lean up high with today's test.
The in-effectiveness of the mixture screw suggests to me that the needle taper is not able to do its job. Only when the mixture screw needle is nearly sealing against the tapered walls does it get effective.

Agreed the circuit is being overwhelmed - but I don't think its supply.
I think it is suction - I have too much.
See below:

Suspect that when I cut back the carb throat to "ovalize" it, I did two things.
1. I shortened the length of the taper section where the needle sits.
2. By cutting in to the taper - Its exit hole in to the throat of the carb is larger and has more surface area.


Quick sketch below shows it - tho not very well.
Bellow red line is my condition.
When needle all the way in. - it behaves as it should.
But when needle gets turned out even a little - I have more surface area at the needle exit than I should - and it is sucking too much fuel past the needle.
Thus its effective for about 1/4-1/2 turn - but then acts like its wide open after that.

Possible?

I see what you're thinking but....nope. Where yours is way too rich the mixture screw is already bypassed by the progression jet.

As soon as the throttle is opened on an SI carb the main jet is online. Constant bleed over. The transition is like a curve from low flow to full flow (where the 1/4 cough is on a weak pilot).

Don't worry about how it goes at WOT. The CHT is only 200F so its nowhere near the power it will be when its set up. Post a picture of the black spark plug if you like. I know its black I can hear it.

Save the carb studs for the SC. Find the main jet that stops the 4 stroking. It will all become clear.

Vid of 120MJ quickly posted.
4 stroking highly improved.
WOT run - 200 degrees. Same.

What happened when I drilled the hold in the bottom of float?
As if the jets and screws don't matter any more.

Enough vid there to show - 4 stroking not gone - but far better.
Moving to 118...

Ok - bit of time today - and its beautiful out.
Jack has suggested I drop my main jet to 118 - which if it doesn't sound to you like a sure road to blowing up my motor - I don't know what does.
Jack - you ass.
It worked brilliantly*

Bike is noticeably faster.
4 stroking is almost gone - not eliminated - but haven't messed with idle screw or jet (45/160 2 turns) so not really tuned.
Scoot measures reliably 3MPH faster on GPS for elongated WOT runs in 3rd.
Still 200° at pinned WOT
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Am I about to hear that my timing needs to be advanced?
Jack - vid here - you can hear a touch of the 4 stroke and motor sound.
https://youtu.be/QYxSksjoPQE

*have carb box top off on both 120MJ and 118MJ runs.
Taking those long bolts out was driving me crazy.
Will test with it on also to see if it kills some power.

I'm enjoying and learning while following along, so thank you CM for going for this test, and making the vids. The video ties in with your descriptions to make the whole scene more understandable. This is awesome!

Oh, and BTW, I LOVE the right hand lean in the vids. Your leaning sidecar rig is so badass. After seeing what you've created, I know people are going to be wanting to pay you for their own...

Thanks again for doing this!

Well that's sounds much better. When you throttle down and up again at high rpm, you can hear the exhaust resonate, that's when you know its near. Was that pesky float bowl hole all the time. Who knew. Seems like 2.3 is the number for the new DRT carb. I have had good success with 2.1 but hard to put the metal back.

I'll bet you thought the nightmare would never end. Keep the receipt for the SC. I think you might actually find that the little old SI is quicker, or no different. We will see.

I did actually think that the 4 stroking would stop by 118 but seems not. If you try a smaller pilot now and set the mixture screw, it should be a bit better.

Might need to go slightly smaller on the main jet yet. Once the pilot is reduced. Try a proper plug chop. Warm it up. Change to a new plug. Do that 1 minute 3rd run again. Stop and take the plug out and put the old one back. Then chop it or get a good picture of the insulator base.

Am I about to hear that my timing needs to be advanced? Not your first rodeo. Possibly, see what the plug looks like then decide. Is at 25 -8 ?

Edit: BTW impressive torque on the 3rd gear from low down. Better than I thought it would be.

qas - all good.
Thanks brother.
Beautiful day down here.
Crazy week of work came to screeching halt midnight last night.
Today - slow cup of coffee to start and full day of riding.
Good for the sole.

Pondered Jack's reckless solution to drop 14 points on main jet - brewed another cup - and used Jack math and went with 7. Just as crappy as ever on 4 stroking - but didn't seam to mind - and you know - Corona Virus and all - why not. Came back in the house - 'nother cup of Joe - dropped 7 points points more to 118.

So if you are keeping score. All things exactly the same - a drilling of the hole in the float chamber from 1.8mm to 2.3mm dropped main jet from blowing up engine at 132MJ to probably a little rich at 118MJ. And its down right zippy. Gracious.

Ok - that's the good news. Jets are all gravity - no suction required.
Picked up 3MPH legit and repeatable on speed runs.
Did full 30 seconds pinned - that's longer than it sounds - and saw something around 245° max. Full lug up steep hill in 3rd managed about 175 - no drama. link: https://youtu.be/d4xcp1fkP9w

Remaining challenges.
1. 4 stroking - still... much better but still plenty of rapid fire machine gunning on 1/16th throttle. Full 1/8 throttle ok now. (CM estimation)
2. Idle jet - mixture screw still might as well be a fake door nob. Does precious little at any setting.
3. Absolute top end is still basically 65. Was surprised there wasn't more in her - she got there a bunch quicker. Thank god for radial front disc brake. Impressive work. Check the uphill climb vid - honestly - it is unreasonably steep - video doesn't do it full justice - and I intentionally lugged it. Your specs and adjustments to iron horse should be in their manual. Can't tell the Italians anything.

25-8: yes. holding until we sort the rest - and can always choose to keep it for a bit of saftey factor - but seems like there might be a degree or two if I wanna squeeze the lemon.

Sunset run: https://youtu.be/uQDchY7Q-c8

There's more in it yet. Once the 4 stroking has gone that run up Mulholland is going to be quite a bit stronger. Where its pulling is right on the splutter.
Reduce the pilot by at least 5. If that was the 45/160 then the 40/156 is going to be about right. When you're in the zone the mixture screw will start to do something. Until then leave it at 2.5 turns out.

A plug chop will confirm if you can drop the main jet lower. However, it does sound not so bad at the top of 3rd on 118........ but 120 was spluttering at the top and that usually means the correct main jet is a few jets down. Not just one. So if you have a 116 now is the time.

Is great riding around in the sidecar. Makes sitting at my desk much more interesting.

Made some speed runs today and played with GSF software.
Could be a touch more in this.
Plug chop would be logical next step at this point if I want to see if there is a little more left - or a careful run with a smaller jet - eyes on the temp gauge CM!!

As for the four stroking on idle jet:
Tried a 42-160 and my custom 40-157 idle jets.
no difference in 1/16 -1/8 throttle machine gunning 4 stroking.
Warmed it up and played with screw adjustment.
Should have filmed - but take my word.
There is basically zero, zip, nothing, nada, gazpacho, change in idle when I turn it in.
In fact - I couldn't make either of these change the idle speed at all - even bottomed out.
Idle circuit is being overwhelmed.
Is it my 2.3mm hole?
Is it my validation?
Is the 120 AC too little air?
Im sure it-s solvable - but fine tuning the 1/16th throttle at this point may not be worth the agro.

Scoot runs fast and fun with the jetting where it is.
4 stroking when I am putting is certainly annoying.
Predicting rain for next 4-5 days.
Have data on the SI now with a dozen speed runs.
Maybe time to put the smart carb on and see just how smart it really is.

This is half the trouble with helping others set up. When it starts to improve they think its done. I agree the SI is starting to get better but it still has a way to go. The 40/156 pilot jet confirms that the main jet is still too big. 118 may seem small but with that big hole it isn't so small anymore.

The Dyno is wavy because as it picks up it sounds wavy. Is unstable because it is too rich. This will get better. 9000rpm CHT of 245F means its too rich. It all ties up.

With the 40/156 still in, keep reducing the main jet, one at a time until the 4 stroking goes. As I said earlier, I expect it could be 116 going by the difference between 120 and 118 but might take less. I have a box set of 110 to 120 in ones that I do this with.

There are still a few steps until this is set up. The SC is probably going to blow it up, so lets get this done right before then.

Just making sure your still reading.
🙂

Interim post:
Swapped to 116MJ.
Idle is still the 42-160.
Quick speed run felt about same as 118MJ - and temps were same as well.
Did not go and pin it for 30 seconds.
4 stroking perhaps a hair less here.
Will have closer look and try smaller idle.
Filmed idel jet adjustment with above:
120/BE3/116, 42-160Idle.
Still all but zero reaction.
Question: Am I safe to continue to walk down MJ and run some WOT tests - as long as I am paying close attention to temps - as means of getting main down?
At this rate - have at least two points more in it I would guess - maybe more.
https://youtu.be/FZjJBAzGkEc

Something's not right.
I don't think you can go much leaner than a 42/160 idle unless you drill your own air hole.

Funny you mention it...
I drilled a 40-120 with a 1.56mm drill bit.
I have been referring to it as my 40-156.
Jack recommended I try it - and I will.
2.3mm hole in carb has changed the stratosphere this carb operates in...

So I tried 116 - then 115 MJ.
WOT pinned (no more than 5 seconds) produced 220° - same as the 118.
Fettled through the available jets but unfortunately the next one down was a 112.
With it being the middle of the night in Britain - or wherever Jack is hold up - I asked myself. WWJ221D?
So obviously - I put the 112 in.
Butt dyno immediately said yes.
4 stroking - not gone - but continues to squeeze lower and lower on the throttle.
Kept the 42-160 Idle jet in.

Bike revs higher under load - I can hear it - when pinning throttle.
Below results measured on GSF dyno.
Concerned of course I am melting piston to cylinder wall - but temps remain 220° - back to back WOT runs produce only a few degrees hotter.

Few observations/considerations:
1. This carb is a "DRT modified" one. It has 4 stroked madly at 1/8th throttle since before I enlarged the hole. It was advertised as having both a drilled hole (1.8mm) and "a bigger valve in the float chamber cover and a float needle of 5.2mm". Im not sure how that differs from any other carb. Hebert is running a ~130MJ with his.
2. My CHT is a twist from breaking - makes the pulling of the spark plug a PIA. Not sure of my method - running WOT and just watching temp - but that is how I have been going at it. Can it seize at 220°?!
3. Wonder if set up could be prone to height of fuel in tank. . If it counts on gravity - is that gravity from the float bowl - or is all this jet down sizing head pressure from the tank?

Edit: There was an observation 4 - goes with#1. When I rebuilt the motor and put this DRT carb on - I got spluge all over the exhaust. Have never had before. Suspected head leak. Reinforces point 1 above I think. This carb even with the 1.8 MM hole runs crazy rich. No matter how rich prior jetting on 20/20 carb - motor never leaked oily mess out of exhaust stub. Is it due to some other reason? Did I over tighten and oblong? Could be - but suspect related to super rich down low.

BTW - even with 112 - 42/160idle - idle mix screw is still decorative accoutrement.

112 is faster and power band is elongating.
What's next?

Making solid progress. I would have gone 112 as well. Seems like its still getting more powerful. Still a way to go. As its still 4 stroking we know the lower throttle is safe. While the CHT is still working and no pinging noises (and it hasn't blown up yet), we know the high rpm is ok.

On 112 how much 4 stroking is left with the 40/156 pilot? Hopefully just not so much. Getting a bit small on the main jet now.

The issue with the SI is it all works or it all doesn't. A problem anywhere (like 4 stroking) means there is a problem everywhere. Splooge is just a lesser version of 4 stroking low down. they go together. no amount of tightening stops it, only correct jetting does. Fuel economy goes up when the splooge is gone too.

I've been doing this a long time. We're going a little off the chart but still feels ok.

Edit: oh yeah, if it makes more power the main jet is not too small. When its too small the power will go down.

No idea .
112MJ was end of day just before sunset - one more trip to the garage/tweak/test run - after putting it away for the day an hour earlier...
Didn't want to risk putting 112MJ & leaner idle jet in there at same time.

Will throw in the 40-156 tomorrow after rain clears.
Perhaps also time to put a kill switch on it (nope - hadn't bothered) allowing me to do a proper plug read after WOT.
Plug doesn't lie - so if it reads nicely - and 40/156 eradicates most or all of remaining 4 stroking - would claim victory - albeit a strange one.

The little 24/24 carb with the vortex is pulling for all its got.
Sounds so good WOT.
Smart Carb is going to have its work cut out for it.
.
Wonder if there is a different kind of seize than heat expansion?
Can it just be too dry (don't say it)?
Suspect I may learn.

Next steps: 40/156 pilot. WOT proper plug chop with new plug.
If plug looks nice - perhaps stick here for this set up on MJ.
Last run of the day was fast - and driving slowly through neighborhood was relative pleasure compared to weeks of machine gunning - if not perfect.

Numbers don't make any sense with this carb - all too small - but as you note - spluge and 4 stroking - low end is getting plenty of fuel. . noted

Nothing makes me happier than a 2 stroke making all the right noises. Getting the jetting right is so important to comfort, economy and as you can see going from 118 to 112, performance.

My only concern is your float height might be too high and leaking like Hibberts. If its this the 4 stroking will never go. You don't complain about starting issues and the smaller main jets are doing what they should. Try the smaller pilot on 112 before contemplating what a 110 main jet might do.

Be sure the CHT stays working. When mine break off as they do, the CHT sits at 200F rattling around the head. The first sign the main jet is too lean is when 3/4 throttle at high rpm is opened up to WOT and it makes no difference. Its like WOT is dead and 3/4 or WOT have the same performance. This is a sure sign the main jet is too small and its going to blow if held open.

In the last video on my 221 thread, the main jet is too small. I upped it 5 points after that run, dropped the pilot 2 and it was crisp and clean and very lively. Maybe too much.

Got it.
In toolbox.
Will do best to apply as we try and finesse.

Since we r off the charts with numbers (wouldn't have predicted these small jets) will try and apply more than one measure for status checks. 3/4 - WOT is good one.
Plug chop perhaps best confirmation.

Temp point interesting one-
But I drove it straight up hill in third at lower then needed rpm and managed to force it to 275 degrees.
Suggests gauge is working.
Seems its moving up and down just as would expect as I do my runs.
200 deg when flat out for 3-5 seconds.
225 when I come to a stop Before looping back.

Re float height: Only introduced carb box top at about 118mj
Prior - from 137 (137!) walking down, I could see into carb throat.
Made mistake of parking bike leaning right (never had a bike that could lean...) and emptied my tank on garage floor - one drip at a time down the carb. Have had better days... but taught me a lesson.

When standing straight tho- not a drip into case from carb. I'm certain. Has to be ~10+ degrees leaned right. Until 3 days ago - I could see this.

I start my bike with one kick almost always.
Never use choke.
Open throttle, lean bike to right for 3 second count.
Close throttle.
Stand straight.
Kick.
Starts.
Float seems to be working and not overflowing.

Will try not to blow it up.
Pics tomorrow after rain stops wot plug chop and 40-157 idle results.

Cheers.
-CM

If Dyno charts are to be believed - then looks like the sweet spot is a 112MJ for max power.
That's about how it feels as well.

Put in a 110MJ (double checked) and did a speed run.
Results below. Didnt feel any better at the top.
Maybe a little lean even - though when trying the 3/4 throttle - Felt like there was more in it WOT then 3/4.

Temps - 200 - 220 on slow down...
4 stroking - bout same as 112MJ.
Thats with my custom 40-157 idle jet.
Not certain where to turn - would prefer not to blow up the motor if I don't have to.
Kinda grown fond of this build.

Weather crappy here all week.
Next Moves?
What about going back to the 112MJ and bringing timing forward a few degrees? (not sure how many).
This would raise temps.
Could it affect my 4 stroking down low?

Hope the high-tech kill switch works out for you... while you have the throttle pinned you reach over and grab each wire with two fingers and hold them together? Brilliant! That leaves just one (opposable - take that animals!) thumb to hold the throttle.

Seriously though, when the motor is revving hard, I often find the kill switch has no effect. Not sure what that's about?

Ha!
Switch clicks left or right and grounds out CDI.
Purpose: run WOT with new plug in and kill motor while at WOT.
Coast in and pull plug for chop.
My understanding of how to do an accurate plug read.
Otherwise u measure ur idle jet richness on top of ur lean main by slowing down while motor still running.

Is this one of those internet wives tails I've been duped by?

I just see two bare wires...

Its all steps forward. So low rpm 4 stroking much better on 112 than 118 but still there. If the 110 jet was either a real 110 or undersize and the low rpm was no better, then this is not going to improve it. And it really should have by now.
I am thinking your float level is too high. Maybe not by much but too high. Thing to do next is fit the full float top assembly from the SI20/20. Totally stock original with no changes and see what happens. If your float level is too high and with the SI20/20 top its lower, it will be suddenly weak across the whole rev range, so significant up jet and work down again.
This needs to be tried before moving on.

Ahh - those are the "passive" wires in a 4 wire harness run carefully - and if I do say so myself - somewhat expertly - through the eye of a welded on wire guide - some may wrongly confuse for test pivot points for a leaner side car, still not removed.

The other two wires in the 4 wire exo-harness - are connected to ground and the coil at one end - and to the thumb switch on the other side of the white pressure sensitive adhesive strips positioning the thumb switch.

Its a technical thing we some refer to as the California loop.

Honest.

hyhyhy i like the words californian loop

ur the wizard of california now Brother C

stay safe and cheer

Thanks Ebeth! Stay tuned... I'm buying - tho somewhat perplexed that a mm of fuel in a float chamber that is vibrating and tilting - has the chance to make any difference.
But I won't be surprised if it does.

I'l take us another a bit further with the SI 20/20 top and see what we learn.
Keep in mind it has a smaller needle and "valve" that SIP referred to - so these could be the culprits instead or with the float level?

Know its not factory smooth yet right down at 1/8th throttle - but suspect we are at or near peak power.
Wanna save time to also try out some of the other hardware in the queue before we reach Covid-20.
Smoothness and refinement are a little lower on totem than they would be otherwise.

Let's see if there's a fix for the bottom end with the new top.
Goes on no mods to start - straight bolt up.
Are either of the SIP components they refer to (larger needle and valve) swappable to the new top as a second step?

Take your time to answer - you and I are the only ones now reading this thread.

🙂

(cheers for the help and insights. learning a lot.)

Edit: This approach is an interesting way to separate the issue. Is it the hole in the bottom, the float level, or the needle/vlave (feed) to the float. Kinda interested to see for myself.

I'm tracking - super interested in this process. Dialing in the carb is paramount, so a big thanks to you, and Jack!!!

I've had a think about it and this is going to work. The 4 stroking issue is your Cosa float top. The Cosa float top has a higher float level, estimated at 2mm higher than the original Spaco.

On mine the original Spaco with a 2mm spacer seems to be fine. I'm running a 48/160 pilot on a 22bhp engine and factory smooth, zero to WOT and will stay at WOT for mile after mile. I used to do it often. Is just a pleasure to ride and a total sleeper.

If the Cosa top is even 0.5mm too high its going to be 4 stroking. It may be starting ok but could be between poor starting and 4 stroking at low rpm (stack level goes up on start). Do the test, see what happens. Big main jet to start. Maybe back to 130 and walk down.

Plenty of interested followers, brother Ebeth and brother Qas at least. I'm sure Hibbert and Sime will be keen to copy the results too. You're taking one for the team.

Top will get swapped tomorrow.
Q: do I risk fuel starvation with the std inlet and needle of the 20/20?
This thing currently can drink when I am doing my speed runs.
(I know its rich at 1/8th throttle - but trust me - I am not at 1/8th throttle very often...)

Let' see how it goes with the non-Cosa top.

Larger main and 48/160 back in for first run

I don't think there will be any fuel starvation. Jetted right the Cosa top is not needed.

If you take a picture of both float tops with a steel rule and the float closed. We can see the difference between them. And will help the readers understand the issue.

Make a recording of the run and a dyno chart if you have time.

If it works do a plug chop too.