Modern Vespa

Get a weight on these before mounting, curious what these weigh compared to stock steel wheels and tires.

Will do. It's been a few years since I got flamed on MV for posting about comparative wheel and tire weights.

I feel we've grown as a community since those days...

I remember when other were going a bit off on you for that posting Chandler. The thing is, tire and wheel weight are absolutely critical when it comes to performance competative motorsports. Lots of scooterists will just scoff about the extra weight from tire/wheel weigh combos on our putt putts, but with tuned up cylinders as well as hi-po hydro brake systems, going with lighter weight rotational mass on the wheels is only logical next step. And because of that, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having "trickle down" racing technology showing up on our every day road going scooters. We as scooterists are always looking for that ONE extra MPH, little things like lighter weight tires/wheels can give us that!

I'm really curious if using the 11" wheel and tire combo are a weight gain, loss or negligible difference. I'm guessing with no split rim hardware or tubes it'll be lighter than factory.

I am knee deep on a home welding project that rivals my leaning side car rig ... trust me.

Love this convo tho.

I can do a weigh test - tho we need to tack on a bit cause my 10s are worn down.

Chandlerman: (feels good to use your full name - like family) I (thankfully) missed the dress down from the old days - but I'm game to give this a whirl.

I intentionally avoided putting the big ballon affect tires on - tho I hadn't considered weight - I was hell bent on not having to cut my old cases.

I'm also psyched to balance these as I suspect I will get some nice smoothing at speed.

Will grab the scale and see what I get for weight comparison when I pull the wheels for balancing.

You welding up a seismic proof reverse oscillation tilting hot water heater? Just how close do you live to the San Andreas fault anyhow?

My opinion, having used a SIP 11" rim (3" wide) and a K61 120/70-11 tyre on the rear of my MHR 221 scoot. Firstly, the swing arm had been damaged by the previous owner, so shifting the motor to the right by 1cm was mandatory for me. This lead to a wide wheel conversion using the afore mentioned combo.

It does look great, no doubt about it. Is it a harsher ride? Not that I have noticed. It feels very stable and planted that's for sure. Does it weigh any more/much more than a 3.50-10 on a stock rim? No idea, and as I'm not in the habit of racing my scoots competitively, it never crossed my mind. The gearing was carefully considered, as I had built the motor with a 68T primary, and gearing was the main reason I didn't go to the 130/70-11. I can choose from 20T to 23T clutch, so plenty of fine tuning is possible.

Disadvantages:
- it's a PITA to get on and off the rear of the scoot
- carrying a similarly sized spare isn't an option

[Edit] I also find that a 10" front with a 100/90 K61 is a good match for an 11" rear with the 120/70 K61. The scoot sits nice and level, as the 90 tyre profile at the front kind of offsets the bigger rim diameter at the back

I compared the Pinasco split tubeless to stock steel rims. The weight difference was significant.

From my thread on the topic Once the new tires and rims show up from SIP, I'll add those measures to the thread

I'd love to have a set of Pinasco Split tubeless rims. I don't want to cough up the cash for them though. Maybe next year.

Or best u can made ur own rims just need to find donor steel rims that have 5 bar like mine

This topic something that has always confused me. What is the difference between 130/70 tire and a 110/80 tire when both are 10"? Is a 130/70 tire wider and shorter (flatter road contacting surface) than a 110/80 which would be narrower and higher (pointier smaller road contacting surface)? And how do they relate to 3.5-10" tire size? I've read descriptions of the differences and it just doesn't click in my head.

I currently have 3.5-10" crappy sip performer TL tires on my stella. And I just ordered K62 130/70 tires to replace them.

I also ordered more sip tubeless rims for my p200 and just noticed the new rims I got are 2.50-10". The ones on my stella are 2.10-10". So much chaos and inconsistencies in my tire/rim purchases cause of my inability to understand the differences!

Did I make a mistake in my purchasing sizes?

AFAIK: Taking my 120/70-11 as an example, the width is 120mm and the 70 is the profile (height of side wall), expressed as a percentage of the width (the 120). This for an 11" rim size.

A 3.50-10 is 3.5" (square??) for a 10" rim. I always thought this was equivalent to 90/90 metric, but others say 100/90 is closer. In my experience, a 100/90 has a greater circumference and delivers a 5% gearing increase over the 3.50-10

ok I think that lines up with how I described it. I'm still confused on how they fit on corresponding rims.

The SIP tubeless 2.1-10" rim says: "The rim allows fitting tires from 3.00 up to 3.50-10."

The SIP tubeless 2.5-10" rim says: "Perfect size for 100`80 and 100`90 tires. The rim allows fitting tires from 3.00/ 3.50 up to 100/90-10."

Does this mean my 2.5-10" rim won't fit the 130/70 tire?

And at what point does one need to modify the engine mount to fit/center the tire? I see the wide tire everyone seems to use is a sip 3.0-10" rim. So I am guessing the 2.5-10" rim should fit with no modification. SIP does say it has a slight offset from the 2.1-10" rim, but if used both front and rear 2.5-10 rim there is no noticeable difference. I am using both front and rear 2.5-10" rims. I guess I'll have to install them to confirm if the 130/70 tire fits without rubbing shocks or anything width wise (as long as it is safely useable on that rim).

I think a 2.50 inch rim _may_ just about accommodate a 130/70, but the 100 and 110 widths are a better match. The 3.00 inch rim is best for the big 120 and 130 width tyres. My 2.50" SIP rims are standard fit (with small offset), but the 3.00" rim at the back of scoot in the photo required the swingarm mod and special motor mounts to shift the motor 1cm to the right.

Well swa, I'll report back when I get them to let you know if they work or not. This will be another data point in the ongoing discussion of alternative tire/rim sizes and widths. I assume they at least do fit on the rims.. whether they hold up under usage or what not is another story.. cause I paid for the SIP tire mounting service and they did it and shipped them without contacting me to say they were mismatched. Unless they literally don't care and just do the work paid for with the product purchased with no regard for their own knowledge of if stuff fits or not. I'll trust they work until I see otherwise.

Sorry for derailing your thread a bit CM!

My new tires arrived sometime yesterday, which was a nice surprise, since I'd been unable to get a tracking number from SIP's new site and the order status was just "in shipping."

I hopped on the scale with them and they're 11 lbs each, so lighter than I logged stock tires (15 lbs), but still heavier than the 3.5x10's on the Pinasco split aluminum rims (7 lbs).

Today should afford me time to get them mounted and take them for a spin, though, along with some comparison photos versus the 3.5x10, because these things seem much larger, both width and diameter.

I had the same problem with my order this week from them. Finally figured out if you click the shipping provider logo on the main order list page, it will give you the error message. But if you click the magnifying glass to view just the order you want the tracking for. The link provided for shipping at the top of that page works. Bear in mind.. this is using the old.sip-scootershop.com link.

If you use the regular sip-scootershop.com link, I just noticed that viewing the individual order shows the tracking number right in the details.

Thank you, how's Josie doing with the new home?

Chandlerman - fire us a pic when you determine the size difference.
Mine are smaller than my 3.5x10 continentals.

Have been working on a project - few random shots below. Totally made possible by skills learned with the scooter.

Before I get there tho: Jack/others - question. When I lifted the cylinder from .5 to .8 base - I immediately got some piston slap that I had never had. Wasn't sure at first - but seems this is what it is. Have run the crap out of it since that time - neither gotten worse or gone away. Seems well jetted in.

Is this a "thing" that can occur with raising your cylinder timings?

As for my absence on the boards - below is a project that caused. Decided to make a truss to hang off of house - that would hold a giant chandelier - that I also made - providing light for a seating area that has always needed it.

Worked for days to try and create in time for Thanksgiving. Didnt quite get there - me on a ladder as guests arrived for some outdoor socially distanced fun. Hahaha - gotta laugh at myself on that one. Stop time of one man trying to install - if you want a hardy chuckle. [url] Few pics below:

Very cool project. The gloves were a nice touch! I liked seeing the Unicorn in the background, always ready to run to the store or wherever.

So now you're all ready for the holidays and socially responsible entertaining.

wow. That thing is huge. I'm with you.. hopefully the wall is strong enough!

Great stuff! Welding skills are being put to good use. I wish I could power a welder in my garage!

The hinges are a nice upgrade

very, very cool.

Fabulous use of newly learned skills in other realms!!

Had to justify all that time I'm the garage!

SoCal - Even my truss is a leaner.

Enjoyed showing that one off.

Now moved to full garage emptying clean out - for my sanity - tho if honest with myself - half the problem is 20 lbs of stuff in a 10 lb container...

Hope everyone found some fun and good times over t-giving

Exactly my problem! I've got some ideas, but it's gonna take days to implement, and I'm on the hunt for a big piece of metal that can be the bench top...

Looking more closely at the old candelabra vs new ... that's some crazy metal work you did there. Looks like you extended the bulb holders on tubes?

Need a night pic for full effect.

Mrs now glad you got the welding gear. Looks awesome. Hopefully its too high for drunk people to swing from.

Onto the scooter question; piston slap can have many causes. Too much power is one of them. Bore/piston wear might be another. Over jetted or over timed is the usual. Maybe time to try a new cylinder. Now the garage is clean, it must be time to mess it up again.

Clearly you've met my buddy group.

Suspected the slap was due to over richness - last minute cylinder lift was given only a once around the block to jet in...
But on return from trip - dialed it nicely to BaWAAAA! sound & a golden brown plug.
Could make a s'more with it if it was a marshmallow.
However - slap remains.

New cylinder can't go on yet...
Cause I have a pipe design pipe on the way that needs testing on existing set up.
🙂
Xmas.

I could double check a leaner rod doesn't remove the slap.
Timing could get a tweak - I didn't consider moving it when I lifted the cylinder.
Temps seam within control - though I am a lot braver with the aluminum cylinder than I was the iron.
The slap was immediately apparent after the lift - so I connected the dots that it was involved. Perhaps the hotter tune is just exposing what ever was already there.

Thanks for the list of usual suspects.
Helpful.

P.S. Socal - that lit shot will be posted - but I need top get a few more rosettes to replace my work gloves with first....

qas - all day at cleaning - if I just didnt put it back in - it would be perfect... what can we do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Waiting for a video that has lean, rich, and BaWAAAA! sound.

Pipe Design, nice! Box or Jack style?

Josie's good, but that's the beauty of a dog who knows how good she's got it . Travis Barker is his usual neurotic self, but that's part of his charm.

I kicked off a separate fat tire thread so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle when I want to go back and reference it.

Also, CM's video is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgkrD4_g8fU. Watch him hang a truss and also do windows! A double threat!

That thing is amazing. Nice work, and not just the execution, but also the style. I might be able to pull off the technical assembly ("might" being the operative word here), but mine would probably look like some Brutalist Soviet behemoth. Definitely no grace or style to it, more suited to a tank factory than a beautiful fall evening.

Wish I could figure out how to record it. It's such a nice sound!

Jack style it is.
The one the taut as the best pre res and earliest res design.
Charts show similar resonance kick to polini box with much broader power band once on it.

We will see...

Chandlerman, thanks. Project was a good one and made only possible from everything I've learned here. To quote u: I'll Dremel just about anything.

🙂

Finally got my new 2.5x10 rims and 130/70 tires. They are way fatter than the 3.5x10 tires! I wish they fit cause I would rock them front and back.. but I really have no interest in irreversibly modifying the engine and frame to fit this. So I will be buying the widest tires I can fit without modifying my bike at all.

If anyone is interested in 3 unused heidenau k62 130/70-10" tires I'll sell them for less than list! I'll be removing these from rims once I get my replacement tires. I wish they made the k62 in the size I want cause they are a really beefy nice looking tread pattern. So I'm still trying to decide which is the widest option to replace these with that will fit in frame with no mods other than washers.. K58 110/90 or 100/80?

Crude measurements on the difference between these 130/70 tires and my 3.5x10 standard width tires posted in images below. Crude because the heidenau treads were a bit deep for my digital caliber arms to make contact with the outermost edge. So that measurement is a close approximation. From those measurements, the 130/70 tires are about 0.55" wider.

I'll try to mount them as is to front and rear when I get a chance in the freezing cold this week, just to see how far off from fitting they are and post pics when I get that done.

Also had quite the trouble getting this shipment from UPS cause they got held up in customs for 3 days and UPS opened the boxes. Unfortunately I bought 3 new rims.. and UPS lost the wheel nuts and washers for 2 out of the 3 new rims when they opened it up. So add that to the list of random crap I gotta order again!

That's 23 mm total or 11.5mm per side.

https://youtu.be/MqwG_qTOyfw

I see what you're doing wrong. You're spending time on things that are not scooters.

rub it in for the rest of us..

Bet with some o-tuning that sod cutter could haul ass

Open up the exhaust with a straight pipe and the air filter, then rejet for improved flow?