Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 pm linkquote
Enjoyed letting Kitt do a lil dance for y'all - thanks for the good comments.

This post should really be on advancements on the unicorn - and I suppose if you squint your eyes - really hard - it kinda is?

While innocently just drinking my coffee on Thursday, an alert popped up from Craigslist.
Logan Mill - estate sale.
One owner.
Full tooling.
$1000.

Sheesh. I am only human!
You just wave your 3 jaw chucks at me, and show off your curvy cast iron legs, and I am supposed to just, what? Ignore that? I am not (single phase) wired like that.

Soooo - I called the number - and bought it - sight unseen.
Drove down yesterday and broke it down in to lots of small bits - and threw it all in the truck.

But the best part might have been the "Roebucks" coveralls in my size!
Great guy - helped me break it down and load - then gave me his father in laws freshly cleaned coveralls.

Paint on the machine is awful. So tempted to strip it back to something I can prime and repaint. But currently just cleaning and prepping to re-assemble.


Been in this garage for 40 years. Was previously owned by Sig Erson - the camshaft guy who lived across the street.


Ready to roll!


Weirdly - I might be most excited about these coming with the deal. I mean - damn. Cue the music!

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:39 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:39 pm linkquote
I really like your style CM2! No messing around - you make it happen. Now, it'd be sweet to see the Unicorn rolling again

Actually, this is really cool too, of course. And to see KITT with a brain would be awesome also. Living vicariously.....

BTW, I haven't found a mug that even compares to the elephant mug. I won't give up looking, but so far, pretty dismal replacements out there.

The trials and tribulations of our lives eh? Ha!
Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:04 pm

Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 798
Location: MN
 
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 798
Location: MN
Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:04 pm linkquote
Suh-WEEET coveralls!!!! LOVE the old school garage fashion!

Guessing you’re catwalking right now to some ‘50’s Doo-Wop, so I won’t take up too much of your time.

But, nice score on that big machine thing you just bought. I’m sure it does everything you’ll need and MORE!

Also hoping that vintage chippy green card catalog on the bottom shelf was included. Lots of odds-n-ends could nestle home in those little drawers....
Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:44 pm

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:44 pm linkquote
You paint it and it will devalue… you know the rules. Patina.
Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:37 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sun Jul 11, 2021 10:37 pm linkquote
Hahaha.
Alright y’all.
K - garage and coveralls by night. - board room by day.

qas- kitt will be doing the lords worl soon. (Editors note: kitt may be an atheist)

Pheas’ - I kinda wanna strip it and make it a rat lathe! Just don’t trust the rust!

Few days of cleaning and assembling and I should be back on my feet.
Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:46 pm

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:46 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Pheas’ - I kinda wanna strip it and make it a rat lathe! Just don’t trust the rust!
Penetrol, cutting oil, grease, rust converter… move on and make something!

Seriously tho - the rule is clean it, get it running and ride it. Then resto at a later date. Greasing the bearings is probably the only must-do.
Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:44 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2461
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2461
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:44 am linkquote
Nice score! What’s left now??
Plasma cutter?? Laser cutter?? Something else??
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:28 am

Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 402
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
 
Hooked
Bodgerific 150 Super, PX200(ish...), US 50 Special in progress
Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 402
Location: Melbourne, Way Downunder
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:28 am linkquote
I vote you give it a damn good clean, oil and refurb the slides and bearings, then put on the coveralls, and put it to work.

Painting it would be like tie dying the coveralls.

It’s a work machine, treat it with the gruff respect it deserves…
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:35 am

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5221
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX*2
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5221
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:35 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
Nice score! What’s left now??
Plasma cutter?? Laser cutter?? Something else??
Working Submarine.
BossHog wrote:
Painting it would be like tie dying the coveralls.
LOLzzzz! And true.
Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:53 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2924
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2924
Location: London UK
Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:53 am linkquote
When you get time, it would nice to see the unicorn running again.
Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:59 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:59 am linkquote
Oh man.
I could have written all those responses myself.

I was on the just clean and assemble program from the start - but with every flaking bit of paint that fell off - it's killing me. Meanwhile - garage is completely blown up, mill is rolled into the middle, and half the rest of the stuff is lying in the driveway.

Trying to figure out how to re-assemble to fit the lathe - in a tidy enough fashion that It doesn't drive me crazy and make it miserable to do some good work.

Thanks for the encouragement - which is the glass half full version of reading all the above.
Stay tuned!
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:16 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3331
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3331
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:16 am linkquote
Your wife must be loving this hobby right about now! . Still living vicariously through you
Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:38 am

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:38 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Oh man.
I could have written all those responses myself.
Damn straight - cause you know we’re right.
charlieman22 wrote:
I was on the just clean and assemble program from the start - but with every flaking bit of paint that fell off - it's killing me. Meanwhile - garage is completely blown up, mill is rolled into the middle, and half the rest of the stuff is lying in the driveway.
And you’re about to throw some swarf!!!
charlieman22 wrote:
Trying to figure out how to re-assemble to fit the lathe - in a tidy enough fashion that It doesn't drive me crazy and make it miserable to do some good work.
Try a 10” x 10” shed… sigh. Almost need one of these… https://pocketnc.com/
Wouldn’t cut it for cases and heads and stuff… but certainly make some interesting small parts.
charlieman22 wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement - which is the glass half full version of reading all the above.
Stay tuned!
Seriously tho - sick rig. Both of them! Inspiring me to get back in the shed and sort mine out. Took me months just to find find the old-school grease I needed - haven’t had the time to apply it.

What interface are you planning for the CNC? Guessing you are a long way down the milling rabbit hole by now?
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:02 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:02 pm linkquote
Got back in front of the parts - and just couldn't bring myself to re-assembly in this condition.
Lathe has been torn down to bits - and parts are off to the media blaster on Thursday.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This will clear some space for me to get back to the mill and my cases.
Of course - its in the middle of the damn garage - so that will need to be addressed - but I should be back at it early next week.

Pheas' - I haven't determined which software yet.
I did add a DRO (digital read out) which took some time/effort.
This will allow me to do work manually - with digital accuracy.
Actual Vespa work to commence next week.



Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:25 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:25 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Actual Vespa work to commence next week.
I'll believe it when I see it! As long as nobody hollars SQUIRREL!
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:04 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:04 pm linkquote
Hahahahaha.
you can imagine how my teachers felt.

So much for just wiping down and assembling:



Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:27 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:27 pm linkquote
Wow, looks fantastic. I'm amazed you can pull off so much in the time allotted us mere mortals.....
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:52 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:52 am linkquote
Intro and new to forum.
Hi everyone.
My name is Charlieman22.
Well, actually, its not really Charlie, that's my dogs name, but my daughter created my user name and well, it just sorta stuck.
So feel free to use it - everyone does - or just shout out "hey you".
Im not picky.

I'm a Virgo, I like home made pizza, and of course vintage Vespas!
In my spare time, I also like to restore old machines which I can use to restore other old machines.
Please welcome me to the forum.
🙂

Alright - with that out of the way - how about an update and restart?
Had a little detour on my way to rebuilding the Unicorn - which included some heavy machinery.
So - bit of house cleaning is perhaps first in order.

When last checking in - I had a 1950's lathe I was restoring.
Having never operated a lathe, I had a lot of questions, so I found a forum.
The people over at NSML (not so modern lathe as I like to call them) helped me along - but in the middle of my project - I discovered that there was this thing called a Monarch 10EE.
(Voodoo - are you reading this?)

So I toiled away on my lathe - using my NSMV skills mixed with my NSML inputs.
As you can imagine, some rules were broken along the way.
A bit of Pheas's bare metal, mixed with SoCal's paint, and a touch of polished aluminum ensued. Pics below.

And about that Monarch 10EE lathe I began to covet you ask?
Well, it's a super precision Art Deco cast body machine.
It weighs 3200 lbs.
The lathe I've been restoring (also below) has about the same foot print, but weighs closer to 500 lbs.
These Monarch's are a totally different class/precision.
And one came available (1960 model) while I was finishing my first lathe restore project.

What am I going to do with a precision lathe (so many questions!)?
Well - I suppose we will all find out together - frankly, I'm not quite sure.
But since last here - I did manage to buy a 10EE for about the price of an Allstate - which is a mighty good find.

Am capping the summer with some travel - that has me not too far from SIP.
Throwing in an order for some parts - which I will cary home to work on the Unicorn with.
Questions below.
Chime in and lemme know!

Nice to meet.
-CM


Bit of Pheas' bare metal and polished aluminum introduced to the lathe


Some additional gratuitous shiny metal work and SoCal's automotive urethane paint in a normal spray paint can gives it toughness


In all its red glory. I will sell this one when I get back home from travel.


A monarch 10EE showing its sexy curves. If Piaggio spec'd a lathe to work on their product - this would be the one


Inspiration for color option?...


Current reality...


An actual Vespa question - for my 20-25 max HP, do I need the double spring - or can I get away with the single spring/flat cover primary kit?


I am shoehorning an EFL transmission in my cases. Very fine clearances when I use the bulgy type covers with larger diameter springs vs flat. Flat would give me breathing room.



Last edited by charlieman22 on Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:54 am

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:54 am linkquote
Finally an update…

I literally log on everyday waiting to hear about the sidecar….

Prayers have been answered…

Oh man… lathe pictures…
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:13 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:13 am linkquote
Welcome to MV, Charlieman!

You got a bike yet, or just a bunch of machine tools? If so, post some pictures! We love pictures

Seriously, I see where this rabbit hole is leading. Once he's making his own parts in his garage-turned-machine shop, he'll decide he needs to start casting his own base parts. Then, he'll realize that he needs to understand the smelting process, but to do that, he needs to understand the whole "ore mining" thing, and next thing you know, he's the "build a toaster from scratch" guy, only with scooters. And once he's built the scooter, he'll need some motor oil and gasoline to get it running...

Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:06 pm

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1215
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Aug 28, 2021 2:06 pm linkquote
Welcome to the forum charlieman22!

Always best to work vintage machines with vintage tools - that way you get the tolerances right, right?



Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:11 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sat Aug 28, 2021 3:11 pm linkquote
Quote:
Finally an update…
Had hit my allowable quota for non Vespa images
Quote:
You got a bike yet, or just a bunch of machine tools?
I once posted a question about how my ignition worked because my key wouldn't turn. Not kidding.
Quote:
Always best to work vintage machines with vintage tools - that way you get the tolerances right,
Critical

Hopefully I will lure someone in with some experience with upgraded primary gear springs.
Of course - I could probably wind some on the lathe?

🙂
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:06 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:06 pm linkquote
Quick look back as I prep to move forward.
When I built this motor last - I put an EFL gear box in it.
That was a winner - thanks to Whodat's push.
The EFL was far crisper - and I put a pretty heavy load on it with the side car and additional HP.

No memory of exactly how or why I did what I did to get it to fit - but luckily - this thread had a recap in it.
Perhaps I anticipated this moment.

The primary scrubbed the case so needed to be slightly shimmed.
That set off a domino effect where all shafts needed to be shimmed.
Looking back at the photos now - it looks to me like I could manage around that by putting the flat spring cover on the primary/ rebuild it.

That means single spring - as my prior post suggests.
DRT makes an upgraded single spring flat cover (as well as the double spring convex cover).
I'm sure the double spring is more robust - but perhaps the single spring in DRT's "performance" resistance (painted yellow!) would be sufficient.


This was the interference issue - you can see the rivets were hitting the case. I had to add a small shim to lift my primary to avoid this.


This is the other side. The primary's spring cover is convex here. Shimming the primary meant that the spring cover interfered at A with the circlip on the driveshaft. I shimmed the drive shaft at B to avoid this - which caused a cascading of shimming


Here is the DRT upgraded, 6 spring solution (as opposed to the 12 spring). The question is - how much am I giving away - will this handle 20-25 HP. Suspect we are going to find out.

Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:34 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:34 am linkquote
Is it just the photo, or could you have peened those rivets down a little bit more to fix the clearance?

I swapped an EFL stack into my P200 and it made a HUGE difference in how it shifted. Like, basically ruined me for non-EFL transmissions going forward.
Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:37 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2461
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2461
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Aug 29, 2021 4:37 am linkquote
You need the 12 springs kit for a newer primary. Even the steels are different...
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:27 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:27 am linkquote
Quote:
Is it just the photo, or could you have peened those rivets down a little bit more to fix the clearance?
Yup - the rivets were very proud. I took them down a bit after this photo - but the entire primary had to be shimmed to get it off the cases.
Quote:
You need the 12 springs kit for a newer primary. Even the steels are different...
That's what I was looking for. Thanks Safis!
I'll place my order today so I have it before I leave the continent.

Question: what are the symptoms of worn out or broken primary gear springs?
I had some "lurching" off the line when I left a stop prior to tear down.
Will be curious to see what the condition of the springs are when I open the primary/remove the steels.
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:33 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:33 am linkquote
Lurching could be a worn clutch bushing. The only way I know to check if the springs are broken is to shake the primary and see if it rattles.
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:55 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sun Aug 29, 2021 5:55 am linkquote
Thanks CM.
You have good company on that diagnosis.
And my bushing is worn - fell out when I took clutch off. Have a replacement.
Simple test on primary. Ha. Good. Thanks.
Gonna take some time getting back up to speed!
All left hand wrenches.
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:00 am

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3081

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3081

Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:00 am linkquote
Going back to lathes...an orange colored one would inspire me
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:17 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:17 am linkquote
Quote:
Going back to lathes...an orange colored one would inspire me
Chuckle - good to see you 'round.
Can only guess that Voodoo has yet to see the Monarch 10EE.
Surely he would approve.
Random internet picture below (in boating machinery gray) showing off the curves of a 10ee even a Vespa owner could appreciate.
Soon to be turning little bits and bobs for my build.



Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:51 am

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6103
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6103
Location: So Cal
Sun Aug 29, 2021 7:51 am linkquote
I'm digging the old one. Nice job.

From this:



To this:

Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:05 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Aug 29, 2021 9:05 am linkquote
Yeah, excellent job cleaning up and painting the old one.

And glad to see you didn't get too far down the rabbit hole and start making your own cases....
Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:32 am

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

Sun Aug 29, 2021 10:32 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Is it just the photo, or could you have peened those rivets down a little bit more to fix the clearance?

I swapped an EFL stack into my P200 and it made a HUGE difference in how it shifted. Like, basically ruined me for non-EFL transmissions going forward.
+1 on peening

Mine are nearly flat at the back after anvil action…

Honest question, shimming it on the primary shaft? Or between the cases? (Sorry if I missed it in the thread…)
Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:44 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:44 am linkquote
Thanks gents.
Will be fun to use it for making of various shims and what not.
Pictures of that to follow.
Quote:
+1 on peening

Mine are nearly flat at the back after anvil action…

Honest question, shimming it on the primary shaft? Or between the cases? (Sorry if I missed it in the thread…)
Yup.
I ended up peening them flatter - but still had to shim.
Slipped it on the primary shaft and it ran between the primary gear and the cases.
There was some wear though of the shim with time.
Perhaps a stainless steel one better designed/ turned on the lathe, will help me assemble a bit more robust version this time.
Got about 4K miles out of it last time - best I can estimate.


Shimmed and peened.


Image from Safis on a modification he made to add strength. Question - how thick of a plate did you use ?

Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:28 am

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:28 am linkquote
Return to US on Monday.
Arrived Amsterdam & checked into hotel to find this waiting for me today.

Wife just shook head in what appeared to be - despair.

🙂



Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 pm

Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

 
Hooked
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 393

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:08 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Return to US on Monday.
Arrived Amsterdam & checked into hotel to find this waiting for me today.

Wife just shook head in what appeared to be - despair.

🙂
Parts arriving at the hotel in other countries… classic
Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:37 am

Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
 
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3758
Location: Nashville
Sat Sep 04, 2021 6:37 am linkquote
Faster delivery, cheaper shipping costs. What's not to love?

My wife just shakes her head every time a scooter box arrives, regardless of where I receive it.
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2401
Location: california
Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:24 pm linkquote
Had a good look at where I left off.
Re-read some of my posts.
Who wrote this stuff?
They seem to know a fair amount about 2 strokes.
It's kinda intimidating.

Short inventory:
1. Fly side of case needs to be welded up for Malossi cylinder fit.
2. Fly side also has a hole in the transfer - because I chipped the JB weld out from the back (and because I ground through the side of said transfer about 2 years ago and JB welded over it).

side note: JB weld is pretty f*cking good stuff. I can weld aluminum now - but for all the JB haters out there - lemme just say - I beat the crap out of these cases and it did the job. Dremel the surface to raw aluminum, clean it with acetone, and glob some JB on there with pride.

3. Case facing that cylinder sits on will need to be machined flat - as I am doing all this welding on top of it to expand.
4. The infamous groove for the P200 lip will need to be machined. This is the most delicate operation due to the extending of the inlet pad - and I will need to decide if I am going to try and weld/machine the pad itself. more on that to come
5. Fly Side case needs to be machined for allowing a larger crank cheek to fit. Can anyone remind me why SIP designed their crank to be too large to fit that side??
6. At some point - I decided I was going to restore the cases to their original cylinder stud holes (7mmx1.00). I had a Timecert 8mm in one of them - hacked it out with a grinder - and built it up with aluminum weld. That needs to be perfectly bored and tapped.
7. And this is the pain in the ass one - bronze busing wear and alignment. I'm not sure my machines skills are up to the task on this one: yet. Considering options for subtle adjustment to the alignment - in a Chandlerman clutch your pearls on the fainting couch manner that will involve lactate 620, a drill bit, a torch and some shims. Stay tuned.

So - picking this back up - I'm kinda struck by how much I bit off - it's questionable outcome - and just why I went down the rabbit hole I've been down. Fun to be back at it.

Ok - so on to step 1. Fly side.
Haven't welded any cast aluminum since I last posted here - so warmed up the machine and took a few practice runs - then jumped in.


Part of the game W/cast aluminum is removing oxidized layer. Started the process here. Balance between not taking enough - and making a thin section even thinner before welding (not good). Note scribe line: Malossi cylinder ports are set way back. Its


I like to make a first past on the perimeter - and then back fill.
That first past is the most sensitive - wants to burn through and sag - so you gotta go quick and dab a lot with the welding rod to cool off the molten aluminum


Here I am starting to fill in. I (just) thought to clamp it to the side of the table, so the table draws some heat out of it. Helps on the super thin edges. Imperfect - but working.


That hole... was covered with JB weld. See comment above. welding this up is dicey. The edges of a razor thin hole just want to burn back as soon as they see heat.


I backed the hole with copper - clamped in place with vice grips - and started on the thick area near the hold and just globe it full of aluminum. You can see a few blemishes/errors - but overall pretty happy with outcome. This is ready to machine.

Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:19 pm linkquote
Right on CM22 - glad to see you back at it!
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:26 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2924
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2924
Location: London UK
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:26 pm linkquote
About time! Doubt it will take as long as you think.
This crank might run straight from the start, worth a try. The longer stroke cranks have bigger webs so the big end bearing doesn't lose diameter.
It's making wrong decisions that wastes the most time/money/energy, so....is there any point in saying try not to be hasty?
  DoubleGood Vespa T-Shirts  

All Content Copyright 2005-2021 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.1704s ][ Queries: 15 (0.1448s) ][ Debug on ][ 209 ][ Thing One ]