Modern Vespa

And deeper than a wizard's sleeve.

Nice touch

More plot twists than a Christopher Nolan movie

Back in my comfy spot.
Gave the shop a test run on the unicorn today.
Front end has a subtle wobble.

Regular readers of this thread (blog) know I am sporting a side car and a 4 piston disc brake - on a 20mm modified PK fork.

Decided to do a little tear down to see what's what.
No interest in having something break on the front end - other than the brake.

Hub bearings and axle seem sound.
No visible runout on either.
But the swing arm pivot/mount that resides at the intersection of the fork's lug, and the swing arm - has a little play in it.
Maybe this is normal?
Doesn't seam a good place for any play.

Think I'm going to have to tear down the fork.
Total PIA - as I have my hydrolics running through it.
Seeking advice on how to:
- remove the star washer thingys that retain it
- any special notes on pressing the center pivot shaft out?

Ik those r probably all the wrong words.
Figure I'll know the right ones before all is said and done…




Suspect joint

Star washer thingys

I have nothing to contribute on the star washer question, but I will point out that 23 weeks since your last post here is completely unacceptable.

Center punch in the middle and it "shrinks". For the pivot pin, you press in a smaller diameter pin ripping through the bearing, the other end will come out with the pin. Get a repair kit but you need the special tool or something similar to press them all in…

And yes, that's a lot of play…

Here's the tool…
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/tool-steering-column-rocker-bearing-gudgeon-assembly-disassembly_19120021

Repair kit…
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/bearing-set-suspension-arm-front-p-a_17745100

x2 with too much play. I've replaced the beaings and seals in three different forks. The first time was an eye opener of a learning experience! Even just removing the old bearings were a HUGE pain in the neck. I ended up trashing the bearings and seals on my first go around and simply tossed the fork up on my spare parts shelf. The second time i gave it a whirl was about 8 years later. I did enough research right before the second go around that it went smoothly. There is definitely a technique to it. I don't have any of the fancy official press tools to do the job. I simply used a digital caliper, random diameter sockets, and a hyraulic shop press to make it happen. Maybe buy two rebuild kits just in case you mess up on your first try?

If I remember correctly the Pk and PX are pretty similar.

This was a great reference.

Thanks guys. In my defense - I built some gates, which you threatened to steal, hacked their control boards with delay relays, and sold my garage - which my house happened to be attached to...
I'm WAY out of practice turning wrenches. experience speaks. Safis - thanks - exactly the direction I needed.

Tool looks like I could build it - for about twice the time and price... 🙂
But my real interest in it is - I might be able to press it in without removing the fork...

Thanks for the tips and tricks you guys.
Off to SIP.
Super.

Edit:
Just saw 108's vid.
Thanks!

this repair is just a gargantuan pain in the ass if you don't have the right tools. it can be done, but it's a right pain.

buy two kits for sure if it's the first time tackling it.

personally, I wouldn't even consider doing this in-situ given the nature of the job.

For my own edification, what just happened to this topic? I saw about 2500 posts getting re-indexed, followed by this topic getting re-indexed. But I can't figure out what triggered it.

Anyone?

There was a an element of this thread that was about Charlieman's new shop, but it was removed to this thread a couple of days ago. Maybe that was the trigger?

I saw a number of days ago the last couple pages of this topic get moved to this topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

I thought y'all did your MV magic. MVBot maybe?

I split several posts off (about 2 pages worth) into their own topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

so mayhaps that had something to do with it?

We moved my "new shop" build out to a separate thread.
Some may consider it ironic to choose this moment to separate out a topic - given the tangents THIS thread has gone down - but other's would point out that no one seems to know what the definition of ironic is.
🙂

Greasy did the work if you need more deets.

more like I borked it up, probably.

don't mention MVBot! I just got it put back into the closet!

(besides we police ourselves here, mostly)

Is MVBot anything like this?

okay, first, I feel very seen.

second, yes. that is exactly like MVBot. but not at all. MVBot is a lunatic.

Just in the last hour, or several days ago?

Just saw the topic indexing happen, which generally shouldn't happen in large numbers. Obviously, my assumptions about my own indexing scheme are wrong, just trying to figure out what I screwed up.

several days ago probably around the 2nd?

Weird. Dunno why it would start indexing now.

Must be something else.

Saw it… thought it was just me.

Forum has no posts unless you sign in

That was this morning, no? That was a different bug, now fixed. And all the posts were still there, but a critical SQL query was failing.

Wow fast..!

Er then, not too sure which you're referring to then.

Hope you get it fixed without a hitch.

Received trailing arm press.
Oily covered bag in a half opened box, with no diagram or instructions.
SIP grade A.

Of course - its just a press - so it should be simple to sort out all the bits.
They probably nest with each other - to give choices.
Should be simple...

except...
The press has a narrow extension on the threaded part. (arrow in image 1)
There is only one die that is threaded - and it was screwed on. "L" in image 2.
As you can see - the narrow extension protrudes from die "L".

So riddle me this: how the f*$# do you utilize the other dies A-K?
Is E involved?
Also - for anyone that has done this job - when pressing out the old one - are you supposed to press the caps all the way through?

SOS.
Thanks!
-CM

I'm throwing WAG's around here:

pin is used for locating/centering?

the multiple dies are for other removal/install operations: axle, caliper carrier, speedo drive on other forks/hubs-- disc, 16mm 20mm

when I did it, I pressed out one side and then flipped it and pressed out the other. not saying that's the right way to do it, though.

https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/PX150/PX150%20Workshop%20Manual.pdf

starts at "suspension 3"

Thanks G.
Picked up a few more morsels with that one.

I suspect that E gets put on L, and that A, B, and C MIGHT fit into E.
A, B, and C are "precision ground" with a rock and some pebbles - giving them that polished steel look for a portion of the shank poking out one side.
However - that polished shank doesn't ACTUALLY fit into E, and if I used the press - the component A, B, or C would never, for the rest of my time on earth, be removable from E.

It also doesn't explain WTF L has a centering hole with a protruding penisy looking part.

I will continue to research.
Following the crumbs.
Tks!

Watched the vid 108 sent - in close up a few times.
He is using a hydraulic press.
One of my answers is: the caps are destroyed by pressing only in the center of them - and basically firing the pin right through them.

The press tool itself is still a bit of a mystery.
Suspect I have to "clean it up" to allow the parts to fit together.
Still - that bit that pokes out is a mystery.

what's the diameter of the center protruding pin?

You have to use a drift/punch/whatever to press out the old bearing. The bearing cap cover is really thin sheetmetal. Pressing a punch (let's say 1/4"~1/2" diameter) directly through the bearing cap, it will pierce the sheetmetal and then push directly on the swingarm pivot pin. Keep pressing until the pivot pin comes all the way out the other side of the trailing link.

When i reinstall everything, i use dial calipers to make sure that the new pivot pin is absolutely dead center in the fork's eye. I then take a measurement (with the calipers) to see how far i can press the bearings into the trailing link arm.

That's a fairly brief summary. I didn't mention the O rings, but you can see how they did it in the video. To make assembly easier, i froze the pin overnight, and used heat on the fork's eye. I'm pretty poor at explaining things, but if you're good at deciphering poor explanations, then you'll get my gist.

The list of tools i used-
-hydraulic press
-vise
-hammer
-punch/drift
-dial calipers
-calculator
-torch
-freezer
-various diameters of sockets you press the new bearing back in.

The L is for pressing the pin out of the Vespa engine's timing chain...

I do not see hopes, dreams, prayers, black magic or foul language in this list. what gives?

Two of those techniques were used during my first try. On my second try i used the other three techniques. My second and third tries somehow went very smoothly...probably because of those other three techniques that i used. But seriously, the first go around wasn't pretty and ended in complete failure.

F goes on L and then E follows. There should be a small clip to hold them. F is a bearing to help the rotation under pressure…

Safis!
Thanks.

Whodat!
I take more of ur advice then u realize… I bought two kits…

I'll look at it again in the morning when back at the shop.

Much appreciate all the feedback.

Safis comment about the parts nesting together confirmed what I thought.
The issue was, Grade A does not mean that the components actually nest.


Ok, ok, it actually said grade B - but seriously - isn't "the parts don't fit together at all" grade F? What are we teaching these kids today?!
Get off my lawn!

Anyhow, for the record:
E goes on L. You can see the hold in the center of E that allows L's pin to poke through. Why you ask? No idea.

Once E is on L, you can put H,I, J, or K, into E's other side.
This is used to press out the pin.
Note to anyone attempting, DON'T use K because it is exactly the same size as the internal rod - and thus it will be pressed in when you press out the old pin.
Ask me how I know...

J is undersized - and thus the right one to press the pin out with.
I suspect from Safi's comment, that F is what I will use to press the caps in, after I press the new pin in with J.

While I am here - I am replacing the shock.
Some may recall (though I doubt it) that one of my first jobs was stuffing a shock under the mudguard - without giving it the Scooter & Speed full treatment.
Was kinda horrified to see my work.
Geez.


First order of business was to "polish" the ID of E so that H,I,J,& K could fit

Here, J has been fitted to E. Ready to roll

Loath to pull my fork - so doing it in place - which is why I bought this tool. Will see if I can press things back in.

oof. that's ugly. kinda surprised it never cracked. Had to remove material there so it didnt interfere with the AF parts "axle seating".

I will say - though workmanship was horrific - ideas were there. Shock on left was one I modded. Note locking nut swapped to under carrier to shorten vs stock - while keeping all travel.

I've made a mistake, thought F was the circled in the pic. That's what goes between L & E (gap in 2nd pic)…