Tue, 26 Jul 2022 02:38:16 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
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Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: Thu, 01 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000
Posts: 8176
Location: Victoria, Australia
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 02:38:16 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Alas - I have been verbose - and my thread has grown longer than Gandolff's beard.
And deeper than a wizard's sleeve.
OP
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 03:14:43 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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OP
Ossessionato
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Tue, 26 Jul 2022 03:14:43 +0000 quote
Nice touch
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 03:45:50 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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Tue, 26 Jul 2022 03:45:50 +0000 quote
Ginch wrote:
And deeper than a wizard's sleeve.
More plot twists than a Christopher Nolan movie
⬆️    About 23w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
OP
Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:40:56 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:40:56 +0000 quote
Back in my comfy spot.
Gave the shop a test run on the unicorn today.
Front end has a subtle wobble.

Regular readers of this thread (blog) know I am sporting a side car and a 4 piston disc brake - on a 20mm modified PK fork.

Decided to do a little tear down to see what's what.
No interest in having something break on the front end - other than the brake.

Hub bearings and axle seem sound.
No visible runout on either.
But the swing arm pivot/mount that resides at the intersection of the fork's lug, and the swing arm - has a little play in it.
Maybe this is normal?
Doesn't seam a good place for any play.

Think I'm going to have to tear down the fork.
Total PIA - as I have my hydrolics running through it.
Seeking advice on how to:
- remove the star washer thingys that retain it
- any special notes on pressing the center pivot shaft out?

Ik those r probably all the wrong words.
Figure I'll know the right ones before all is said and done…




Suspect joint


Star washer thingys

Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:49:55 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 14:59:35 +0000
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Lucky
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Mon, 02 Jan 2023 23:49:55 +0000 quote
I have nothing to contribute on the star washer question, but I will point out that 23 weeks since your last post here is completely unacceptable.
Tue, 03 Jan 2023 00:16:43 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 00:16:43 +0000 quote
Center punch in the middle and it "shrinks". For the pivot pin, you press in a smaller diameter pin ripping through the bearing, the other end will come out with the pin. Get a repair kit but you need the special tool or something similar to press them all in…

And yes, that's a lot of play…
Tue, 03 Jan 2023 00:21:25 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 01:18:15 +0000

parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
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parallelogramerist
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 01:18:15 +0000 quote
x2 with too much play. I've replaced the beaings and seals in three different forks. The first time was an eye opener of a learning experience! Even just removing the old bearings were a HUGE pain in the neck. I ended up trashing the bearings and seals on my first go around and simply tossed the fork up on my spare parts shelf. The second time i gave it a whirl was about 8 years later. I did enough research right before the second go around that it went smoothly. There is definitely a technique to it. I don't have any of the fancy official press tools to do the job. I simply used a digital caliper, random diameter sockets, and a hyraulic shop press to make it happen. Maybe buy two rebuild kits just in case you mess up on your first try?
Tue, 03 Jan 2023 03:31:48 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 03:31:48 +0000 quote
If I remember correctly the Pk and PX are pretty similar.

This was a great reference.

OP
Tue, 03 Jan 2023 03:52:17 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 03:52:17 +0000 quote
Thanks guys.
Quote:
I have nothing to contribute on the star washer question, but I will point out that 23 weeks since your last post here is completely unacceptable.
In my defense - I built some gates, which you threatened to steal, hacked their control boards with delay relays, and sold my garage - which my house happened to be attached to...
I'm WAY out of practice turning wrenches.
Quote:
Maybe buy two rebuild kits just in case you mess up on your first try?
experience speaks. Safis - thanks - exactly the direction I needed.

Tool looks like I could build it - for about twice the time and price... 🙂
But my real interest in it is - I might be able to press it in without removing the fork...

Thanks for the tips and tricks you guys.
Off to SIP.
Super.

Edit:
Just saw 108's vid.
Thanks!
Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:40:19 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Tue, 03 Jan 2023 07:40:19 +0000 quote
this repair is just a gargantuan pain in the ass if you don't have the right tools. it can be done, but it's a right pain.

buy two kits for sure if it's the first time tackling it.

personally, I wouldn't even consider doing this in-situ given the nature of the job.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 02:43:34 +0000

Petty Tyrant
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Petty Tyrant
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 02:43:34 +0000 quote
For my own edification, what just happened to this topic? I saw about 2500 posts getting re-indexed, followed by this topic getting re-indexed. But I can't figure out what triggered it.

Anyone?
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:06:02 +0000

Addicted
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
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Addicted
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:06:02 +0000 quote
jess wrote:
For my own edification, what just happened to this topic? I saw about 2500 posts getting re-indexed, followed by this topic getting re-indexed. But I can't figure out what triggered it.

Anyone?
There was a an element of this thread that was about Charlieman's new shop, but it was removed to this thread a couple of days ago. Maybe that was the trigger?
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:06:38 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
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Ossessionato
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:06:38 +0000 quote
I saw a number of days ago the last couple pages of this topic get moved to this topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

I thought y'all did your MV magic. MVBot maybe?
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:09:44 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:09:44 +0000 quote
I split several posts off (about 2 pages worth) into their own topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

so mayhaps that had something to do with it?
OP
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:09:45 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Ossessionato
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:09:45 +0000 quote
We moved my "new shop" build out to a separate thread.
Some may consider it ironic to choose this moment to separate out a topic - given the tangents THIS thread has gone down - but other's would point out that no one seems to know what the definition of ironic is.
🙂

Greasy did the work if you need more deets.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:11:43 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:11:43 +0000 quote
qascooter wrote:
I saw a number of days ago the last couple pages of this topic get moved to this topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

I thought y'all did your MV magic. MVBot maybe?
more like I borked it up, probably.

don't mention MVBot! I just got it put back into the closet!

(besides we police ourselves here, mostly)
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:22:07 +0000

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
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Lucky
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:22:07 +0000 quote
greasy125 wrote:
more like I borked it up, probably.

don't mention MVBot! I just got it put back into the closet!

(besides we police ourselves here, mostly)
Is MVBot anything like this?
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:27:22 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:27:22 +0000 quote
chandlerman wrote:
Is MVBot anything like this?
okay, first, I feel very seen.

second, yes. that is exactly like MVBot. but not at all. MVBot is a lunatic.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:36:44 +0000

Petty Tyrant
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:36:44 +0000 quote
greasy125 wrote:
I split several posts off (about 2 pages worth) into their own topic: Charlieman's Scooter Shop Build Extravaganza Deluxe

so mayhaps that had something to do with it?
Just in the last hour, or several days ago?

Just saw the topic indexing happen, which generally shouldn't happen in large numbers. Obviously, my assumptions about my own indexing scheme are wrong, just trying to figure out what I screwed up.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:49:15 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:49:15 +0000 quote
jess wrote:
Just in the last hour, or several days ago?

Just saw the topic indexing happen, which generally shouldn't happen in large numbers. Obviously, my assumptions about my own indexing scheme are wrong, just trying to figure out what I screwed up.
several days ago probably around the 2nd?
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:52:43 +0000

Petty Tyrant
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 03:52:43 +0000 quote
greasy125 wrote:
several days ago probably around the 2nd?
Weird. Dunno why it would start indexing now.

Must be something else.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:02:31 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:02:31 +0000 quote
jess wrote:
Weird. Dunno why it would start indexing now.

Must be something else.
Saw it… thought it was just me.

Forum has no posts unless you sign in



Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:06:28 +0000

Petty Tyrant
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:06:28 +0000 quote
108 wrote:
Saw it… thought it was just me.

Forum has no posts unless you sign in
That was this morning, no? That was a different bug, now fixed. And all the posts were still there, but a critical SQL query was failing.
Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:08:44 +0000

Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Molto Verboso
PX 200
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Tue, 10 Jan 2023 04:08:44 +0000 quote
jess wrote:
That was this morning, no? That was a different bug, now fixed. And all the posts were still there, but a critical SQL query was failing.
Wow fast..!

Er then, not too sure which you're referring to then.

Hope you get it fixed without a hitch.
OP
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 00:20:31 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 00:20:31 +0000 quote
Received trailing arm press.
Oily covered bag in a half opened box, with no diagram or instructions.
SIP grade A.

Of course - its just a press - so it should be simple to sort out all the bits.
They probably nest with each other - to give choices.
Should be simple...

except...
The press has a narrow extension on the threaded part. (arrow in image 1)
There is only one die that is threaded - and it was screwed on. "L" in image 2.
As you can see - the narrow extension protrudes from die "L".

So riddle me this: how the f*$# do you utilize the other dies A-K?
Is E involved?
Also - for anyone that has done this job - when pressing out the old one - are you supposed to press the caps all the way through?

SOS.
Thanks!
-CM





Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:02:36 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:02:36 +0000 quote
I'm throwing WAG's around here:

pin is used for locating/centering?

the multiple dies are for other removal/install operations: axle, caliper carrier, speedo drive on other forks/hubs-- disc, 16mm 20mm

when I did it, I pressed out one side and then flipped it and pressed out the other. not saying that's the right way to do it, though.
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:16:29 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:16:29 +0000 quote
https://manuals.wotmeworry.org.uk/Vespa/PX150/PX150%20Workshop%20Manual.pdf

starts at "suspension 3"
OP
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:59:50 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 01:59:50 +0000 quote
Thanks G.
Picked up a few more morsels with that one.

I suspect that E gets put on L, and that A, B, and C MIGHT fit into E.
A, B, and C are "precision ground" with a rock and some pebbles - giving them that polished steel look for a portion of the shank poking out one side.
However - that polished shank doesn't ACTUALLY fit into E, and if I used the press - the component A, B, or C would never, for the rest of my time on earth, be removable from E.

It also doesn't explain WTF L has a centering hole with a protruding penisy looking part.

I will continue to research.
Following the crumbs.
Tks!
OP
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 02:20:42 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 02:20:42 +0000 quote
Watched the vid 108 sent - in close up a few times.
He is using a hydraulic press.
One of my answers is: the caps are destroyed by pressing only in the center of them - and basically firing the pin right through them.

The press tool itself is still a bit of a mystery.
Suspect I have to "clean it up" to allow the parts to fit together.
Still - that bit that pokes out is a mystery.
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 03:35:03 +0000

Banned
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 03:35:03 +0000 quote
what's the diameter of the center protruding pin?
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 03:59:28 +0000

parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 03:59:28 +0000 quote
You have to use a drift/punch/whatever to press out the old bearing. The bearing cap cover is really thin sheetmetal. Pressing a punch (let's say 1/4"~1/2" diameter) directly through the bearing cap, it will pierce the sheetmetal and then push directly on the swingarm pivot pin. Keep pressing until the pivot pin comes all the way out the other side of the trailing link.

When i reinstall everything, i use dial calipers to make sure that the new pivot pin is absolutely dead center in the fork's eye. I then take a measurement (with the calipers) to see how far i can press the bearings into the trailing link arm.

That's a fairly brief summary. I didn't mention the O rings, but you can see how they did it in the video. To make assembly easier, i froze the pin overnight, and used heat on the fork's eye. I'm pretty poor at explaining things, but if you're good at deciphering poor explanations, then you'll get my gist.

The list of tools i used-
-hydraulic press
-vise
-hammer
-punch/drift
-dial calipers
-calculator
-torch
-freezer
-various diameters of sockets you press the new bearing back in.
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:02:08 +0000

parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:02:08 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Thanks G.
Picked up a few more morsels with that one.

I suspect that E gets put on L, and that A, B, and C MIGHT fit into E.
A, B, and C are "precision ground" with a rock and some pebbles - giving them that polished steel look for a portion of the shank poking out one side.
However - that polished shank doesn't ACTUALLY fit into E, and if I used the press - the component A, B, or C would never, for the rest of my time on earth, be removable from E.

It also doesn't explain WTF L has a centering hole with a protruding penisy looking part.

I will continue to research.
Following the crumbs.
Tks!
The L is for pressing the pin out of the Vespa engine's timing chain...
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:23:09 +0000

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Sergeant at Arms
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:23:09 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The list of tools i used-
-hydraulic press
-vise
-hammer
-punch/drift
-dial calipers
-calculator
-torch
-freezer
-various diameters of sockets you press the new bearing back in.
I do not see hopes, dreams, prayers, black magic or foul language in this list. what gives?
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:29:03 +0000

parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 04:29:03 +0000 quote
greasy125 wrote:
I do not see hopes, dreams, prayers, black magic or foul language in this list. what gives?
Two of those techniques were used during my first try. On my second try i used the other three techniques. My second and third tries somehow went very smoothly...probably because of those other three techniques that i used. But seriously, the first go around wasn't pretty and ended in complete failure.
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:00:31 +0000

Ossessionato
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Ossessionato
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Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:00:31 +0000 quote
F goes on L and then E follows. There should be a small clip to hold them. F is a bearing to help the rotation under pressure…
OP
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:28:34 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3429
Location: california
 
OP
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3429
Location: california
Fri, 13 Jan 2023 08:28:34 +0000 quote
Safis!
Thanks.

Whodat!
I take more of ur advice then u realize… I bought two kits…

I'll look at it again in the morning when back at the shop.

Much appreciate all the feedback.
OP
Sat, 14 Jan 2023 02:24:09 +0000

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3429
Location: california
 
OP
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3429
Location: california
Sat, 14 Jan 2023 02:24:09 +0000 quote
Safis comment about the parts nesting together confirmed what I thought.
The issue was, Grade A does not mean that the components actually nest.


Ok, ok, it actually said grade B - but seriously - isn't "the parts don't fit together at all" grade F? What are we teaching these kids today?!
Get off my lawn!

Anyhow, for the record:
E goes on L. You can see the hold in the center of E that allows L's pin to poke through. Why you ask? No idea.

Once E is on L, you can put H,I, J, or K, into E's other side.
This is used to press out the pin.
Note to anyone attempting, DON'T use K because it is exactly the same size as the internal rod - and thus it will be pressed in when you press out the old pin.
Ask me how I know...

J is undersized - and thus the right one to press the pin out with.
I suspect from Safi's comment, that F is what I will use to press the caps in, after I press the new pin in with J.

While I am here - I am replacing the shock.
Some may recall (though I doubt it) that one of my first jobs was stuffing a shock under the mudguard - without giving it the Scooter & Speed full treatment.
Was kinda horrified to see my work.
Geez.


First order of business was to "polish" the ID of E so that H,I,J,& K could fit


Here, J has been fitted to E. Ready to roll


Loath to pull my fork - so doing it in place - which is why I bought this tool. Will see if I can press things back in.


oof. that's ugly. kinda surprised it never cracked. Had to remove material there so it didnt interfere with the AF parts "axle seating".


I will say - though workmanship was horrific - ideas were there. Shock on left was one I modded. Note locking nut swapped to under carrier to shorten vs stock - while keeping all travel.

Sat, 14 Jan 2023 03:17:45 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 6836
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: Fri, 05 Apr 2013 02:54:23 +0000
Posts: 6836
Location: San Diego, CA
Sat, 14 Jan 2023 03:17:45 +0000 quote
jess wrote:
For my own edification, what just happened to this topic? I saw about 2500 posts getting re-indexed, followed by this topic getting re-indexed. But I can't figure out what triggered it.

Anyone?
Sat, 14 Jan 2023 04:10:27 +0000

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:39:51 +0000
Posts: 3443
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: Sun, 02 Aug 2015 18:39:51 +0000
Posts: 3443
Location: Veria, Greece
Sat, 14 Jan 2023 04:10:27 +0000 quote
I've made a mistake, thought F was the circled in the pic. That's what goes between L & E (gap in 2nd pic)…





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