Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:07 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:07 am linkquote
Help I spit the engine on my 2002 vespa px 125 changed all the bearings seals the lot I put it all back together thinking happy days No ????.kick start is jammed solid I looked on line for words of wisdom take out the spark plug and pour a little 2t oil in so I did moved the wheel with my hand it freed up piston moving ok it kicked 6 times then locked up again .now I was trying to start the scooter at any point please help putting my head away as far as I know I put it back together correctly????
Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:17 am

Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

 
Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

Sun Jul 03, 2022 2:17 am linkquote
You can jam the kickstart cog (usually because it's worn or there's something sticking them together eg. Metal shards) onto the primary shaft…

if it's stuck this way, you'll probably have to open up the cases.

Does the kickstart lever move with the clutch in?
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:55 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:55 am linkquote
The engine was cleaned out spotless .it kicks ok with the clutch in .only change i made i put the washer on the new selector rod because there wasnt one in the old one and it had mushroomed the base of it making it harder to remove the old one also it says in the book theres one fitted .im thinking did i put 3rd and 2 gear cogs in the wrong way round or kick start cog problem ??now there is a shutter on the selector box over selecting maybe ??? Thanks for you reply m8 .
Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:21 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3336
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 3336
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:21 am linkquote
A 2002 PX (EFL gearbox) shouldn't have a washer on the selector rod. It was normal that it was mushroomed. It's done with a special tool so it won't undo itself. Resplit the engine, replace the selector rod and make sure the cogs are installed correctly…
Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:24 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 4:24 am linkquote
Thanks m8 ill try that .
Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:48 am

Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

 
Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:48 am linkquote
What's the noise like when you kick it with the clutch pulled?
Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:58 am

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia
Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:58 am linkquote
Double check that the engine isn't in gear!

Happened to me.
Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:35 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:35 am linkquote
It clicks as if your coiling a spring .could it really make a difference adding the wee washer or spacer to the selector rod ???
Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:45 am

Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

 
Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:45 am linkquote
Swede79 wrote:
It clicks as if your coiling a spring .could it really make a difference adding the wee washer or spacer to the selector rod ???
Not sure… but if the gearbox was binding, wouldn't that mean it wouldn't move with the clutch pulled in?
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:19 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:19 am linkquote
Swede79 wrote:
could it really make a difference adding the wee washer or spacer to the selector rod ???
Yes!
To maybe confirm:
Off the center stand in neutral(checked at the batwing), you'll feel the bike trying to nudge forward when you put weight on the kickstart.
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:59 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:59 am linkquote
Cheers ill check it out tomorrow might just have to take the engine back out and get it on the bench .
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:16 pm

Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
Sun Jul 03, 2022 12:16 pm linkquote
Swede79 wrote:
Cheers ill check it out tomorrow might just have to take the engine back out and get it on the bench .
Follow Safis's advice.

FYI you don't need to remove the engine for this. It can done in-frame. The bike is designed to replace the cruciform in this manner.


EFL on the right.

Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:46 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:46 pm linkquote
Thanks m8
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:39 pm

Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1369
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1369
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:39 pm linkquote
Did you removed the engine studs? if you removed them chances are that you over tightened the two in the back and one of them is touching the oil mechanism gear. It happened to me, same symptoms. Try losening one of the back (inner) engine long studs(one at the time) and re-check.
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:48 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:48 pm linkquote
Cheers ill check in the morning ive took the engine out and split it again .i put back the old selector rod and removed the washer spacer back the way it was when i first split the engine .are you talking about the 4 long bolts that hold the barrel and head on ??
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:52 pm

Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1369
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
71' Sprint Veloce , 05' Vespa PX150, 1978 P200E
Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 1369
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Jul 04, 2022 1:52 pm linkquote
Swede79 wrote:
Cheers ill check in the morning ive took the engine out and split it again .i put back the old selector rod and removed the washer spacer back the way it was when i first split the engine .are you talking about the 4 long bolts that hold the barrel and head on ??
Yep!! that is it. If your engine is equipped with oil injection mechanism chances are that one of the engine studs is screwed in too much(a few milimeters too much) and is touching the gear. I mean, that had happened to me on my P200E. It is super easy to accidently do it if you are not careful. The right way to do it is doing some markings which I didn't do.
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:05 pm linkquote
Its a 2002 vespa px125 disc it has the oil metering device .this has been a long project 2 years on and off paint job ect ect a big learning experence i havnt had the scooter on the road yet a spin around the block a few times thats it i spend more time and money working on it nightmare lol lol
Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:07 pm

Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

 
Molto Verboso
PX 200
Joined: 25 May 2016
Posts: 1111

Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:07 pm linkquote
The can of worms eventually ends with a PX… I can vouch for that.

Stick with it, there's only so many problems it can have.
Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:17 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Mon Jul 04, 2022 8:17 pm linkquote
scooterist wrote:
Yep!! that is it. If your engine is equipped with oil injection mechanism chances are that one of the engine studs is screwed in too much(a few milimeters too much) and is touching the gear. I mean, that had happened to me on my P200E. It is super easy to accidently do it if you are not careful. The right way to do it is doing some markings which I didn't do.
x2 ^^^^^
Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:58 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:58 am linkquote
Hi scooterist hows it going im back at it again when i tighten down the head engine kick start locks solid ??? Ive tryed drawing out the 4 barrel bolts a little still no joy Haynes manual out loadsa head scratching yet again driving me nuts do you have a match and some petrol handy lol lol Help !!!! Help !!!!! Lol
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 29 Nov 2020
Posts: 1127
Location: Los Angeles
Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:40 am linkquote
Are you able to fully run the nut through the bolt threads by finger?
If the threads are damaged, you might be running the bolt deeper into the case end.
If you remove the clutch you can see it taking place.

Are you using thread lock on the case-end threads? Helps a lot.


You can see if the bolt strikes the gear(yellow) with the clutch out.

Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 am

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:23 am linkquote
Yes m8 i run a tap dia on the bolts before rebuild .bolts are not coming incontact with the metering cog at all .with the clutch off everything spins freely kickstart is free i cant see what the problem is ???
Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:34 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
Tue Jul 05, 2022 11:34 am linkquote
Did you forget the thrust washer/oil pump drive gear under the clutch?

Also, if you compress the clutch, you should be able to hold the cog and twist the basket with minimal resistance. If not, then you need to look at the clutch.
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:11 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:11 pm linkquote
Hi Chandleman no its there .its new clutch plates ect ive had the scooter all running before i split the engine and i renewed all the beatings and seals .it all runs free and then i put the head on and tighten it down it locks the kickstart solid the
4 barrel bolts are not catching anything it doesnt make any sence i lossen the 7mm nuts the kickstart moves freely piston moves t.d.c ????.thanks for repying .
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:16 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:16 pm linkquote
Ok, back to basics-

1. If you remove the spark plug, does it rotate all the way freely?
2. Does it lock up completely, or will it move in one direction or the other?
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:30 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Tue Jul 05, 2022 1:30 pm linkquote
When i reffited the engine after all bearings seals it was locked up i looked on line it said take out the spark plug it kicked freely 6 times in a row and locked i spun back the clutch by hand as i had took the cover off to have a look it turned back halfway way hand and the same the other way ???? At no point have i tryed starting it .the engine is on the bench split the casings and put it back together and still the same ive lost the will lol lol
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:09 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:09 pm linkquote
So, to clarify-

NO spark plug= rotates just fine and dandy

YES spark plug in the head= turns halfway each way, but then stops

Did you use the old spark plug, or a new one?
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:21 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:21 pm linkquote
Same spark plug . Im gonna split the engine again vespa's are a nightmare to work on ill know it like the back of my hand lol it has to be somthing silly ???.
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:59 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:59 pm linkquote
Ya, sometimes its best to tear it all down (except the bearings of course) and then step by step do it again. Been there.

Keep us posted on what you find!
Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:14 pm

parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3953

Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:14 pm linkquote
Swede79 wrote:
Same spark plug . Im gonna split the engine again vespa's are a nightmare to work on ill know it like the back of my hand lol it has to be somthing silly ???.
Was a longer 200cc ES spark plug installed instead of the shorter 125/150cc HS plug?
Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:40 pm

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 08 Stella (for now)
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 6790
Location: Nashville
Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:40 pm linkquote
Did you forget the kickstart return spring? Or could it have fallen out of place when you were reassembling the cases?

Next theory...Did the clutch side woodruff key (or anything else) fall out and get jammed into the gears?

I sucked a bolt into my VBB's motor a couple months ago and it jammed in the crank webs. Stuck the motor fast until I pulled the top end off and knocked it out.

Just to try to further isolate the issue...
1) With the clutch installed and spark plug removed
1a) Does the flywheel/crank turn without issue?
1b) Does the gearbox/wheel hub turn without issue?

2) With the clutch installed and spark plug removed, you kicked it six times and the
2a) kickstart lever?
2b) gearbox?
2c) piston/crank
froze, but you were able to free it by rotating the clutch backwards backward by hand

3) With the spark plug installed, but clutch removed, does the crank/flywheel turn freely?

4) You said that if you put the clutch in a compressor, the cogs rotate in the basket without excess resistance, right?

5) if you have the gearbox in neutral and the clutch removed, can you spin the primary drive by hand?

5) Any other symptoms I haven't asked about above?

You're not the first person to struggle with one of these motors, and you won't be the least. My first case split was a VBB and it was far from trouble-free, but I got through it and never looked back, other than to check over my shoulder for cops.

Share some pictures of what's going on. You'd be amazed what this crew can spot from a couple pictures.

And post a picture of your spark plug, too, just so we can confirm it's a short reach plug.

You'll get there. We got you covered.
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:23 pm

Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
 
Addicted
1968 VBB150
Joined: 04 Nov 2015
Posts: 641
Location: OC
Tue Jul 05, 2022 4:23 pm linkquote
Seconded. You can almost tell when we open the pic, expand it and zoom in to find obscure details like the cap of the beer you enjoy. Detail oriented folks here
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:06 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:06 pm linkquote
Hi all back at the vespa px 125 again still having the problem with the jammed kickstart after rebuild when i take out the spark plug it kicks normally any idea folks ???? New kickstart cog new engine studs all bearings replaced watched rebuild vids until my eyes went square kick start cog spring in place petrol and matches im thinking viking style .Help !!!!!
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:08 pm

Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 485
Location: Finland
 
Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 485
Location: Finland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:08 pm linkquote
Could it be so simple that you have long thread spark plug when you should have a short one? Thus touching the piston and jamming the engine.

What is the code of the plug you have in there now?
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:14 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:14 pm linkquote
Thanks for the reply
its the same plug i had fitted before the rebuild?
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:17 pm

Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 485
Location: Finland
 
Hooked
Parmakit Primavera -74, Polini Primavera -68, Stock 150 Touring -59, VMC 177 Bajaj Chetak 125 -95
Joined: 22 Jun 2022
Posts: 485
Location: Finland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:17 pm linkquote
Still interested of the type code though.
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:22 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:22 pm linkquote
Thanks for the reply
its the same plug i had fitted before the rebuild? B6HS ngk
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:25 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:25 pm linkquote
Even when i scew the plug in 3 threads it jamms up the suckion when i kick it at 2 turns is wild could it be air locking ??
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:52 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6565
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6565
Location: So Cal
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:52 pm linkquote
That's some crazy compression.
Is the exhaust blocked?
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:55 pm

Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
 
Member
2002 vespa px 125
Joined: 03 Jul 2022
Posts: 19
Location: N.ireland
Mon Jul 25, 2022 1:55 pm linkquote
No the engine is on the bench im out of ideas ??
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