Modern Vespa

Of course it's still crashing. Beats crashing in to oncoming traffic tough. Better a controlled crash than trying to save the bike and getting run over by a semi.

I'm glad for the smiley face emoji or I may have taken it the wrong way. I also agree with the "layed the bike down" discussion as I always figured its better to stay on the bike, head up and take the escape option that was in my head as I was entering the turn. But this all comes with reading and experience.There are usually always options. I also am now a recreational rider and don't use a scoot for commuting anymore, so I don't have to ride when I am dead tired from work, ride in crappy weather or rush hour. Glad those days are gone, but I sure learned a lot from that type of riding and it helps me even now.
Again, heal up quick, spring is coming, too many nice riding days ahead.

If you had an understanding of physics, or vehicle dynamics as they call it, you would not believe what you are saying.

1. It is in no way a controlled crash.
2. You're still not saving the bike.
2a. Your concern at this point, should not be saving the bike.
3. My previous comment that sliding along the ground on metal and disintegrating plastic is not the best way to either come to a stop nor 'control' anything, stands. You're still heading into oncoming traffic, and in the worst possible way- not in control in any way shape or form.

I've investigated crashes for 30 years, graduated from many crash investigation courses, received certifications in them, and am recognized in state courts as an expert in crash investigation. I won't comment any further in this topic.

Good point on the uncontrolled body moving quickly down the road.

Buddy of mine got a bike when he turned 50, after not riding since High School. Full Dresser Harley. Says he got into trouble going too fast into a turn, low sided and remembered his jumpmaster telling him "tuck and roll"... no long slide, but beat himself up pretty good. No broken bones, but lots of ibuprofen.

With 20+ years experience jumping from perfectly good airplanes, he could control very little of what happened that day.

I may expand on this later but why do so many of you in the US come off your scooters unaided ?

Bill x

cough cough cough. BULLSHIT

A crash is a crash is a crash.

So if you tell an insurance company those same words I laid it down to avoid a crash, they can now throw out any claims against them. Because you made an intentional act causing damage by your own choosing.

ok back peddle and stammer out of that now.

Thank you.

We donot come off our bikes unaided as a rule. Only those with limited experience or training do..

Iv'e been watching this place for over 10 years now and you do.

That's why I asked the question.

It could be down to many things.

Bad road surfaces,

Not enough training,

Bad weather conditions,

Not enough experience.

There's more of you over there,

The driving standards are worse,

The testing standards are lower than in Europe

It could be many things.

Bill x

Please do not use a scooter forums members as a group to determine riding ability for us over here. Too many on scooter forums still consider scooters as toys and their riding abilities reflect that opinion. There are some on here with competence, others not so much so as is reflected in some of the questions asked.

It's a fair question with some fair answers all of which have merit.

Who else would be most able to ask that question to ? They are scooter riders after all ?

It's not an accusation it's just a question.

Bill x

Wow! I did not anticipate the discussion of "laying the scoot down". I will choose my words more wisely in the future (not a promise, but I will try).

First off, thanks to everyone who posted. And I second the idea of reading Proficient Motorcycling. I own it but had not read it in a long time. I am rectifying that now.

Anyway, the below is just to clarify (hope this does not sound defensive, just thought I would provide slightly more specifics, although maybe that's a bad idea):

1) I crashed. I in know way meant to indicate that I was in control of what was happening or made the smartest decision. Either way, I do think the motorcycle safety class helped prepare me and may have stopped me from making a bad situation worse. I may not have made the best decision, but I did not panic which for some reason makes me feel better.

Basically, I slid a bit to the left and was worried I was going to hit the low divider and go flying. I decided to lean to the right thinking that was a better decision. I thought I might go down, but hoped to stay upright. I overcorrected and went down.

2) I was not speeding, however I was clearly going faster than road conditions indicated (whether or not I noticed); oddly, the police at the scene insisted I was going *slower* than I stated (I thought I was going 25 mph). Either way, had I been going more slowly, I probably would not have crashed. I blame a belly full of the fantastic Armenian food that I just ate. I think it changed my center of gravity (oh, and the sun was in my eyes, and my dog ate my brake lever).

3) I told the insurance company I had an accident and described exactly what happened. Not really worth it to mislead / lie to the insurance company, no matter how small or large the claim.

4) Always wear your gear. I know better. I was lazy and ended up with a big hole in my foot.

5) I take full responsibility. After all, I was the only party to the accident so who else could possibly be at fault. I'm not proud of the accident*, but consider myself to be a safe, and now a very lucky, rider. I do not take offense at any of the other posts. If anyone learns anything from this experience, all the better.

I will post photos at some point, but they are very anticlimactic. The windshield cracked, but the Vespa mostly landed on me.

*I have to admit, the huge scars on my foot and collarbone are pretty badass - way more badass than I actually am

EDIT: Just want to add that the SFPD were awesome. I thought they would be pissed that some moron crashed. They were great, even if they were pissed. If anyone reading is with SFPD - thanks!

2nd EDIT: I was not separated from my scoot (by the way, moving a scoot off of you with a smashed collarbone hurts). Don't know (or care) if someone thinks I did not have the proper training. Every time I ride I learn a little more. I'm ok with that. Would more training / riding helped to prevent the accident. Maybe. Probably. That does not mean I am not going to keep riding and learning. OK, maybe I am a little defensive.

What you had was an accident, plain and simple. Gravel, oil sand etc are difficult or impossible to see on the road. Loss of traction generally means loss of control of the force of gravity. Get well, go ride.

"I had to lay it down." Ah, that phrase brings back memories of an old acquaintance of mine. He had to lay down his Triumph -- more than once as he told it. He could see a crash coming and skillfully execute his "lay down" maneuver. He would get the bike into a "low side" position, then he would scramble up on top of the tank and ride the bike to safety. What need had he for a helmet with riding skills like this? Of course, he told this story every time he got stoned out of his head.

It's actually a good question Bill. The information here on MV is so anecdotal, I'm not sure a person could draw any conclusions. The other scooter website I frequent, Modern Buddy, has a long running thread called "Who's Crashed". It includes responses to a series of questions about the nature of the crash and the experience of the rider. Of course those responses are also self selected (ie you choose to respond), but there are a lot of them and they are somewhat revealing. Some conclusions. In that dataset, most crashes are single rider/single scooter. In other words, in most instances the rider is at fault. Most crashes happen either because the rider goes too fast into a turn or loses control on loose gravel, sand, wet leaves, ice or other poor surfaces. And the overwhelming majority of crashes happen to inexperienced riders.

Now, would this be different if the same information would be compiled in Britain or Europe? I don't know. Riders there certainly have more formal training, but I suspect that inexperience is still a major contributing factor. Are rider caused crashes simply rarer in Europe than in the US? Again, I don't know. .

What a well balanced and well thought out reply that was.

Thank you.

Bill x

Dooglas,

Good observations. My limited experience and observations - rookies
take curves to fast. It is almost as if you could tell new riders
1. Wear a Helmet.
2. Take initial curves very slow.
3. The guy at the next intersection will pull out in front of you.

Ride safe my two wheeled friends.

Bullwinkle J Moose
Frost Bite Falls Minnesota (Still Snowing)