Modern Vespa

I went to the doctor last Thu to find out about the results of my ultrasound. Next day my nurse called me and told me I have a stone the size of an M&M in my gallbladder. On Friday my kidney doctor had too much to talk about in the 15 min that they give us. She is kind of an Alpha female which is fine with me. Some questions remain unanswered.

Has anyone experience this? I researched the web and got very confused with what I read. I am paranoid. There are three schools of thought:

Mindful watching (which means serial ultrasounds)
Diet changes
surgery

How do I prepare for it. I know it is very painful so I need to have an SOS analgesic when you have and attack. When you 'pass' the stone how does it end up in the urinary track?

What else do I need to be concerned about?

I'm not a doctor, but I'm pretty sure that kidney stones are what travel to the urinary tract; gall stones are another story. I had (and kept) a gall stone about the size of a grape. In my case, it caused periodic pain, with no other adverse effects. However, my doctor advised me that I had been lucky so far, but I should have it out before it blew up into a critical emergency situation.

My whole gall bladder was removed surgically (the good ole days), but I understand that nowadays they simply disintegrate the stones with arthroscopic ultrasound, leaving the bladder intact.

I surmised by my research and just talking to folks that this approach may be temporary and more stones may form in the future so it is not the golden bullet that they brag it is.

If they still do it nowadays, I'd just have the whole gall bladder out: no bladder, no stones. It's kind of like an appendix; you can get along quite nicely without it.

That's what I am thinking too. Maybe I should get a second opinion. I just don't wanna suffer with unbearable pain if/when it gets dislodged.

Gone

I had stones, came from rapid weight loss.
Had it removed.
My experience - had stomach ache type pain, increased to doubling over.
My surgery was done at a military hospital, they made a 7 inch incision (not lapryscopy like you would most likely have done)
My recovery- because of the large cut, they cut my abs as well. I couldn't sit up without grabbing a rail or bar and sneezing our coughing would have been an 11 on the pain scale.
I was on bed rest a month and light duty a month.
I flew out to the Persian gulf to meet my ship and was fine.
Again- if they do the "scope" surgery, it's three very small incisions (one for air, light/camera and the cutting tool)
Spend the night in the hospital and home and off work for a week at most.
It's safer for you, and surgery complications are minimized.
The alternative is a stone blocks the duct (that we haven't needed since we ate raw meat) and the bladder swells and bursts.... then they gotta open you wide to clean you out.
Your call.
Side story - I was in the navy and the general practitioner doctor on board refused to let me deploy to desert storm. My department head pushed for me to go stating that the medical units "out there" were more than capable and he wanted/ needed me onboard.
Doctor beats Dept.Head.

Mrs. mpfrank was having pain off and on for a while. One night last year, it became excruciating and off to the ER we went. Within hours she was having her gall bladder removed. Recovery was not terrible and she has had no problems since, other than difficulty if she were to have a whole bunch of fatty food at one time - which wouldn't be good for her anyway.

So, basically, no ongoing issues, no more pain, and I already sometimes forget she had it done.

I am of the school that says that we were designed to function from birth with all the organs in the body...
"If it don't need to come out, leave it in."

If they can get the stone out without the gall bladder then I'd do that.
Then again, I'm not a doctor, so what do I know...?

Back in the 70s, I had my gall bladder out. The Dr gave me a container with 16 little "stones" in it. Big cut and 6 week recovery. Once healed from the cutting, I couldn't believe how much better I felt. Apparently, the stones caused a general malaise.

Fast forward to the early 2000s, my Mother (then in her 80s) had her gall bladder removed (laprarosdopic) and went home from the hospital the next day. And, was excited because she could eat pork again without feeling awful.

Having had two "attacks" before the gall bladder removal, I would say get it out. The modern procedure is a piece of cake compared to the older major cutting.

When I found out my gall bladder had to come out, I discussed the situation with one of my doctor-friends. He told me about the potential after-effects of the surgery (severed muscles and nerves, slow recovery, etc.) if the work isn't done by the right surgeon. So, he referred me to a surgeon-friend of his.

With my operation, he opened me up vertically from the navel to the sternum, thereby separating the abdominal muscles on either side, without cutting through them. He then accessed the bladder through this central incision by reaching under the abdominal muscles. The surgery was performed on a Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday I felt like going home; however, he wanted to keep me under observation for a couple of days. On Thursday morning I drove myself home and resumed life as I had left it.

One interesting consequence of my surgery, is that every time I'm examined by a new doctor, they see the scar up the middle of my gut and assume I've undergone some major surgical procedure; they seem somewhat puzzled when I tell them it was only a gall bladder removal.

Thanks for all the feedback. After my coffee I will respond.

Sorry you have to deal with this.

Let me see. Where does the stone go. Do you just throw it up or does it take the down route to the colon? Fogie I read about the arthroscopic approach leaving the gall bladder intact but my family doctor said that if not removed the stone(s) may come back. I agree I just want the useless thing out.

Haole the long incision creeps the hell out of me. I already have to well weathered incisions: one when they took off one of my crown jewels out and had to reopen it months later to replace with a prosthesis. No I did not get to take it home which is a shame I could have showned it to friends just for fun. I hope they make the small incisions and that's that. Thank you for your service BTW.

Then they placed the port-a-cath for the chemo. When they took it out it out the incision got infected. That made for a healing incision underneath another incision.

Bitza, I heard that I will not have the chance to choose between a laparoscopic or open aproach because the surgeon will only find out once he takes a look in there. If they grow because of weight loss it makes a lot of sense. I have a condition that makes me loose and put on weight all the time which in my case has been 10 years.

Mpfrank you must be a physician. Your words really nailed it. However I don't wanna go through the horrible pain of a full blown attack. I'd much rather have them take it out ASAP. They are being so nonchalant about the whole ordeal. When I announced it to my other doctor last week she asked me if I talked to it!!! And we laughed and I responded that from this moment on it shall be referred to as Matilda.

Mucket what about if it (they) come back, will there be all these little Matildas waiting to grow?

Captain my sentiment exactly. 16 stones! Wow! You could have made a bracelet with them, even a tiara.

Tdrake thanks. This too shall pass. The worst was that crazy old me decided to go grocery shopping on Friday with my S 150 and when I got back I took a tumble on the ice on the steps leading to the doorway falling on my hip and lower right rib just adding insult to injury to poor little Matilda. Totally my fault Now I I have to wait if the soreness continues after my fall. If it does I will make it a point to have it removed. (Not my rib just Matilda).

so I am a surgeon and unfortunatley what you are saying does not make sense. You first said you were told you had a stone in your gallbladder and then went to talk about your urologist who would not deal with gallbladder stones but would deal with kidney stones, two very different organs, two very different diseases and handled very differently. So I cannot comment without knowing which organ has the issue, if it is the gallbladder I can help, if it is the kidney...not may area of expertise, hope this helps


larry

I am pretty sure thst the (urologist) knew I was taking gall stone.

That was my follow up visit. with my family doctor Plleas don't tell me what I am sayiig doesn't make sense. It's sort of rude.

so if you have kidney stones you should see a urologist.
If you have gall stones you should see a general or gastrointestinal surgeon, or a gastroenterologist.
Why did you get the ultrasound, where you having symptoms, and if so what symptoms?
What part of the body was checked with the ultrasound?


larry

The gall bladder was the ultrasound thing. I just mentioned the kidney doctor. Maybe even she was confused.

if you have gallstones you should meet with a general or GI surgeon to see if you need your gallbladder removed. It is a very common operation usually done lapaoscopically so in and out surgery. Hope this helps


larry

Yes I was confused too with your jumping from gallstones to talking to your urologist. I think you need a talk with the doctor that ordered the ultrasound. It must have been ordered because you had some symptoms.

To me, gallstones means surgery to remove the gallbladder.

Kidney stones can be convinced to pass on their own, and depending on where they are, they can be watched, they can be made to pass, (stents) they can be blasted with sound waves, or they can be grabbed when they feed a grapple type thing up to where they are. My wife is also a urology nurse.

Gall bladder surgery is so common and relatively easy to perform that it is usually the first operation they let new kiddy surgeons do when they take the training wheels off. That kindly old grey haired guy who comes by your room won't be doing it; it will be that 14 year old with pimples who cut himself shaving three days ago. Just tell'em you want the lap chole and spend your time scheming how to get the really good drugs.

Sorry but that is mostly not accurate. Yes it is a common surgery, perhaps one of the most common, but it can be a technically difficult surgery and has the potential to have significant, although not common complications, and should only be done by an experienced surgeon. It is not an operation done by someone early in their training. I not only did that operation for many years but trained many young surgeons how to do the procedure properly. I am old(65) and was trained prior to laparoscopic surgery and actually was the first surgeon at my institution in Chicago to do the "lapchole" and I have trained many surgeons in how to properly perform the operation. While I do not do that type of surgery any more, I have a long experience in it. Do not be scared of the surgery, just choose a good surgeon to do it. Hope this helps.


larry

Thanks for the feedback. What MK said makes sense. Forgive me for not being clear about this whole thing. Narrative is not my forte. My family MD did mention about another 'test' which is probably where the GI specialist consult will happened. I appreciate all the feedback from you all.