Modern Vespa

It finally happened. Dead battery. Got my 2013 GTS 300 in May 2014 and it has just under 8000 miles now. I pulled the original battery and noticed a lot of corrosion around the positive terminal. I cleaned it up and gave it a complete charge from my trusty 35 yr old Sears charger.

It took the charge and showed 12.7V so I reinstalled it (greased the positive terminal) and it started just fine. After a short ride I returned home and shut it off and tried a restart. Everything fine, started right up. With the engine off, and after 10 minutes voltage was 12.7. I'll check it again over the next few days before reinstalling cover and mat, but here's the gamble. With a nearly 5 yrs old battery is it on it's last leg, or can I squeeze 1-2 more years. Don't want to get stranded miles from home and no ability to push start.

Note: Always garaged, used nearly daily, no battery tender.

Thanks!

It's probably fine for a while yet, especially if in daily use. I've not had to change the battery on my 2010 GTS 300 yet.

Thanks. That's the encouraging type of feedback I was hoping for. Actual owner experience is best

It's always a bit of a gamble, I suppose, but if your numbers stay good, not too much worry.

Never hurts to carry some jumpers, just in case.

Jumpers - a good idea. Never crossed my mind until you mentioned it. I think I'll try to find a lighter gauge cable than typical auto jumper cables. Lighter gauge would enable easier coiling and storage. Hmmm. It would be interesting to design and make my own if light duty cables are unavailable.

Thx for the suggestion

We rarely get more than a couple years on batteries here in the heat. Now that I think of it I haven't needed to change the battery in my GTS. Hmm.

There are PTW-specific jumpers...thinner gauge, pretty inexpensive. Since having to be rescued by someone else with them, I pack them on every long trip. Cheap insurance, and you never know when you can be someone's hero.

A good thing about smaller gauge wire jumper cables is that the size of the conductor limits the amount of energy sent to you battery. That can be added protection when jumping a bike from a car. Also if jumping from a car, just connect the cable dont have them start the car. You dont need the extra umph of a running alternator. I have had to do this before.

Your battery is unlikely to just fail on you. Cleaning the terminals like you did is great yo maintain a healthy battery. Also batteries have low cranking amps in cold of winter 32For less, contrary to common belief your battery drains faster in the heat because of electrons moving faster in a battery that sits. So if you have a good battery that is getting older, it could fail on you if you were to leave it in the sun or a garage for a week or two without running it or charging it.

And also the reason these vespa batteries last longer than cars is because they are AGM or glass mat. They have electrolyte in a fiberglass weave that is against the plates opposed to a valve regulated lead acid battery ( or filled non matinance) that most all cars have.
The benefits of a AGM is better cranking amps from smaller battery, less weight for the same amps, and a big one is they keep their voltage while sitting 4x longer than typpical batteries. Only draw back is they like to have a good charger to charge them since they can be affected by a real fast charge, they can't dissipate the heat as quickly from the plates as a filled battery can. Also they cost twice as much when you go to buy new.

Hopefully some stayed in here for all of this. I made a EV and learned a ton about lead acid.

Can you get more than 5 years out of a motorcycle/scooter battery? Sometimes. Are you running some risk that it will let you down one day? Sure you are. How important is that to you? If you want to minimize the risk, then you change out the battery. You can have the same discussion about tires, or about CVT belts. Should you run them til they fail, or should you replace them at average service life to reduce the risk of failure at an inconvenient or troublesome time. Your call.

Thanks all for helpful information. This is why the MV Forum is such an invaluable resource. Questions tap into a wide pool of experience and knowledge, such as the technical explanations by orange s150, and sensible suggestion by Dooglas.

Note, I concur with Dooglas on not pushing the limit on important components. Tires, brake pads, belts, yes replace per schedule but I couldn't find anything on battery life, thus the post. It seems that some have had real longevity so I'll monitor and chart voltage readings for a while to help me determine a confidence level. Light gauge jumper cables will also provide insurance.

Thanks for the comment. But battery life examples are very hard to determine. There are way too many factors such as weather, length of rides, how often you ride, if there is a drain in your system, quality of battery. For me 5 years is the max. It sits for about 4 months of salt roads and in a hot garage in the summer. But I also have a kickstart.

Yuasa it's a very good batterie for vespa
5 years easy and more if you had a good weather
Here in my country ( very hot )
All mark of batterie had 2 years life
But yuasa 5 years easy

Control charge with start motor (13,5 / 14v)
Many problem at the alternator on motor 125
But 250/300/400/500 the alternator of charge is very good

No kick start and don't want to be stranded, My Battery gets replaced every 4 years.

Not familiar with battery box size of your Vespa....but when replacing scooter batteries - I go to Yuasa charts and buy the most powerful battery of the same physical size as my stock battery. Cost is very little higher.
Sadly, I'm stuck with only one model for my small Liberty battery box.
FORZA, BURGMAN and Kymco each got a battery with significantly more CCA. (EFI scoots love a healthy battery)
O.S.

It's worth thinking what type of vehicle you're trying to start from your scooter though. On a motorbike I once came across two girls with a dead car in the desert. I couldn't leave them stranded and they had jumper cables so I tried using the bike to start the car. It fried my battery completely and left me push starting the bike for the rest of my trip.

Well that may have worked if you let the motorcycle charge their battery instead of trying to jump start with WAY to small a battery.
And if they were dead on the side of the road, their battery was most likely not the problem.
Cars don't die driving down the road because the batter is low, unless they have a bad charging system in which case a jump will do them no good anyway.

I laugh when I see someone trying to jump start a vehicle on the side of the road.

I wish my Vespa came with an AGM battery. These batteries need the smart charger, they need to be charged slow and low. It will charge also at different rates and de-sulfate the battery. You can sit the battery anyway you want sideways etc with no emissions.
RVers love them for these reasons. They are more expensive. I use one in my truck camper (slide in) and was able to get rid of the vented case to install it in the camper. A battery that dies on you suddenly is talking to you. Keep it on a tender you may get a few more months or a year out of it. Don't ignore it. Don't use a regular car lead battery charger on an AGM.

I believe your Primavera DID come with an AGM battery. To the best of my knowledge, all Vespas have been OEM equipped with AGM batteries for years. And, since AGM batteries are swapped into RVs and boats all the time (as you note), they can be charged with the same systems provided for other lead acid batteries. A "smart charger" which adjusts charge to battery condition and voltage is the best choice for any battery.

Random question I didn't see addressed. Is it a sealed battery or not?

I know my old LX stock battery wasn't sealed and I needed to add water once or twice during the life of that battery and while I was the owner.

All AGM battery and gel cells are sealed. The only ones you have to add water to have caps on the top of them. See the white caps on the top of the battery. These types also dont like to be shocked such as vibrations.
There is also valve regulated lead acid batteries that you need to add the electrolyte to when new and give a full charge. These are still matinance free but for storage at the store you need to add the fluid to them. They should not need any water added to them, if they do there is a problem with the battery and should be discarded.

I copied a few lines from batterystuff.com to explain AGM batteries.

"The gel cell and the AGM batteries are specialty batteries that typically cost twice as much as a premium wet cell. However, they store very well and do not tend to sulfate or degrade as easily as wet cell. There is little chance of a hydrogen gas explosion or corrosion when using these batteries; they are the safest lead acid batteries you can use. Gel cell and some AGM batteries may require a special charging rate. If you want the best ,most versatile type, consideration should be given to the AGM battery for applications such as Marine, RV, Solar, Audio, Power Sports and Stand-By Power just to name a few.

If you don't use or operate your equipment daily, AGM batteries will hold their charge better than other types. If you must depend on top-notch battery performance, spend the extra money. Gel Cell batteries still are being sold, but AGM batteries are replacing them in most applications.

There is a some common confusion regarding AGM batteries because different manufactures call them by different names. Some of the more common names are "sealed regulated valve," "dry cell," "non-spillable," and "valve-regulated lead acid" batteries. In most cases, AGM batteries will give greater life span and greater cycle life than a wet cell battery.

SPECIAL NOTE: It's common for individuals to use the term "gel cell" as a generic term when referring to sealed, maintenance-free batteries, much like one would use Kleenex when referring to facial tissue. As a result, be careful when specifying a gel cell battery charger, as many times we're told by a customer that they need a charger for a gel cell battery when in fact it isn't a gel cell at all."

A+ yeah I could have confused some by referring to valve regulated lead acid, what I was meaning was the type that slouch around when carried but no able to add water too.

Battery stuff is a great website and they have great prices too. I used alot of parts from them when building my EV.

I ignored all the techie stuff because:

a) your hardest start is when your bike has been sitting awhile (overnight plus) and the battery is thus a bit weak and the engine is cold

b) unless you are touring, this happens at home

c) when you're out and about town the battery is both charging and the engine is warm for the next start.

Where, as you've pointed out, you already have a charger.

In other words, odds are nearly certain that when it finally craps out it will be in your garage, so don't sweat it.

Now, if yer riding to an 8 hour work day and it's 50 or below, ignore my comments.

You sure are assuming a lot.
Most batteries don't die at home they die at the least convenient time, (Wife's water breaks, Heading to an important meeting) they have a chip in the battery that determines when the worst time to fail and that's when it stops working

There's a big lesson right there. Protect the posts and terminals before you start to notice corrosion. Vaseline works fine. There're a lot of different products you can use.

If you've already got corrosion you need to deactivate the acid that's causing it. Use a mix of bi-card soda and water and wash the terminals and the posts - do that a few times. Give it a while to do it's magic then flush with clean water then dry it out thoroughly. Be very careful not to get any bi-carb/water mix into the battery if it's an unsealed type - the alkaline will deactivate the sulphuric acid and render the battery useless in no time.

Vaseline is the worst thing to use. Temp gets over 90 and it melts away. Dielectric grease is the ticket.

And corrosion is caused by a leaking battery at the post. You have corrosion on the battery terminal, good chance your battery isn't truly "Sealed" anymore.

Like I said. Vaseline works fine. I've used it for 30 years and never had a problem. It doesn't melt away and 'disappear' over 90'F.

Sure, if you've got dielectric grease, use that. Grease is fine too for that matter.

Dissimilar metals corrode up against each other. All you need is a bit of moisture (in the air) as the electrolyte....

My new - old stock BV350 came didn't come with a Yuasa battery. It came with whatever the dealer had on hand for the dirt bikes that he sells since the OEM one died from sitting so long. The WPS battery that came with my scooter only lasted a year and 3 months from the time I bought my scooter. Not that I'm complaining, I got a really good deal. At the first sign of a hard start I would replace it. You usually gets one or two days of warnings and then you are out of luck.

Then why does my 5 year old battery on my car not have any corrosion on the battery cables at the battery? No grease was used.

I agree with everything you wrote.

Maybe I am an idiot too, but I have never had a battery issue on any of my scooters that couldn't be fixed with a ride to the battery store.

Definitely put your Vespa on the charger if you plan on using it to transport your pregnant wife to the hospital...or need to make an important meeting.

Doesn't help if cells short out.

If just one cell shorts out then *if* the others are in good condition and fully charged then the battery will still start a stock bike.

Folk normally find their batteries are dead when that second cell goes s/c. A bit like brake light switches when the front brake switch is the first to fail.

Modern sealed batteries are generally pretty good (but not infallible). Unsealed ones are the biggest concern when it comes to corroding the terminals and posts - leaks, spills, splashes and even the fumes will start the process.

But at the same time... it's simple insurance to put some type of protection on battery terminals. In fact it's a good idea to protect all electrical joints from corrosion. Anytime you've got dissimilar metals together you've got the chance for corrosion to start. It's just good practice.

Like I said it melts at 100°
"Petroleum jelly is a mixture of hydrocarbons, having a melting point usually close to human body temperature, approximately 37 °C (99 °F)."

So what? It doesn't disappear. It works fine. If you've got temps that are smoking up your battery terminals, the last thing I'd be worried about is a bit of corrosion.

Go and buy dielectric grease if you're that worried. Or even better, give NASA a call and ask what they used on the space shuttle and buy that. Problem solved.

So let's get this right. You've got no personal experience to add to the discussion. You've never even bothered to protect battery terminals (see above). You've plucked some garbage off the internet about the melting point of vaseline (let me guess Wikipedia right?) and now you're an expert.? FFS

I rest my case... There's nothing more annoying than 'arm chair experts' when it comes to hands on mechanical issues.

You don't know what you're talking about... bow out.