Modern Vespa

I'm Dina. New to the forum, new rider here. I just bought a new to me bike on Saturday. (Have been riding a 2001 automatic, decided I needed a vintage) She was originally listed as a '63. Later the seller changed the date to '68. I love her body lines so the year did not matter too much to me. I can't read the vin # on her. After some digging, I read how to find her frame number and plug it in to get the specs. Long winded way to get to the question. The frame number shows that she's a '66 180 Super Sport while the engine number shows she's a '66 150 Super Motor. I'd just like to know if anyone knows for sure which is she?

Hello
Vespa type vbb

And I see the wheel cover
I think your vespa come to Thailand or India
I had the same and look my wheel cover and yours it's the same

Thank you! Your bike is beautiful! Thanks for sharing!

Moving this to the Not so Modern section.

Um, I think he was trying to say your scoot was sourced in SouthEast Asia.... and that's not a compliment.

Your bike is from Vietnam. I highly doubt the stamp is original to the bike; it's been restamped or a stamp welded in place.

Mostly likely a VBB/Sprint/Super. Hard to tell at this point.

Depending on how it was assembled, it might be both a '63 and a '68.

Sorry, dude.

Dina, here is some information below about the scooter you bought. It'll put some of these more negative comments in context.


AVOID PURCHASING A VESPA FROM ASIA.

Generally sold on Ebay or via "Vespa restoration" websites these scooters and referred to in the circuit as "nammers" or "bodges" Unfortunately as economical as these scoots may appear, they often end up being comprised of dangerously welded frames, which are then bondo-ed & painted to look mint. Needless to say, they are generally unsafe to ride. Additionally, often the motors, brakes and hubs have been rigged with items such as coke cans or whatever else these crooks could find laying in order to get them running long enough to close the sale or make a quick video with total disregard for the safety of the driver. If you buy one of these Asian restored scoots be prepared to spend some big bucks rebuilding the motor or replacing it all together, not to mention getting the frame back to a safe level, if even at all possible. More than likely you will have to junk the frame. You should note that because of liability issues most reputable dealers will not touch an Asian restored bike. Do yourself a big favor, save the cash and headache however good these deals seems. The cliché applies here, if it seems to good to be true, it usually is.


Although these models are not undesirable by any means, the models listed below should be particularly scrutinized if you are considering a purchase. At the same time please don't assume that all the scoots models listed below are of Asian origin, this is simply not the case.

"Restored" Fenderlight and Handlebar scoots which were not produced between 1946 and 1957 and which do not have vin # prefixes such as VM1T-VM2T & VN1T-VN2T. (Of important note: handle bar scoots were only imported to the U.S. from 1952-57. )

150cc VBA/VBB & 125cc VNA/VNB models, be particularly weary of those on 10 inch wheels and that have recently been painted.

125 & 150 Vespa Super. Be particularly weary of 125 Supers as they were only imported in very small numbers to the U.S.

Vespa Sprint 150. This is often the hardest to spot as it came stock with 10 inch wheels. Of important note: The Vespa Sprint Veloce was not really imported to Asia and is generally your safest bet if you are set on this model.

Thanks for the info, I am at least more knowledgeable now.

This bike most likely is from SEA (Vietnam, Thailand or Indonesia). Be cautious, with its condition, have some expert check it out. Some shiny looking ones are a deathtrap.

These bikes frame integrity has been compromised or engine has been improperly rebuilt.

looks like it has an e-start button on it. maybe a p200 under the hood? crossing fingers for you.

that floor mat could be hiding a lot of nastiness. there should be a join in the frame near the front and a fold/lip in the frame near the back - the absence of these would suggest a lot of bondo work right there.

i blundered into an indo bodge (knowing that i at least had recourse) and the issues with the bike were simply awful. i don't think there was a salvageable piece on the bike - it was less than worthless (based on the cost of taking it to a tip). cost me a lot of time getting my $ back. but you live and learn... just make sure you live.

OMG! Look what I just scored - 1977 Sprint 150

The real vespa vbb have wheel in 8
Your's have wheel in 10
It's Asian job

The real vbb

It also isn't a "she". Mechanical objects don't have genders.
And whatever you do, please don't give it a human name. Or any name.
that shit makes me cringe.

Although if you insist, I suggest "Ho Chi"

Well don't feel too bad....I also have a bodge and I have put some miles on it like no other. I will say that I have been over that scooter tooth and nail looking for a lurking issue. I have not come across any thing yet. Ho chi...wouldn't be. Bad name....I call mine the viet cong special. LoL
All kidding aside you do need to be very careful when obtaining these scooters. If you can't do it than have someone that is qualified varify that it is safe to ride. I have mostly de chromed mine and put it back to somewhat original. Much easier to ride on 10" wheels though. Scott

Yes you are right Objects don't have a gender in the English language.
But Latin languages do.
LA Vespa, LA moped (feminin)
LE camion (Truck), LE train ( masculin)
And to add to the confusion, some objects can be both masculine or feminine.
example. la chaise( chair) le siege (seat) both gender same object.

I do not give names to my machines either. I understand why people give their Vespa a name, nothing creepy about it.
You watched too many scary movies

I was taught that vessels and vehicles are she's, but in this case it is a bodge which is an it. Is it unethical to sell a bodge for parts? lol #kiddingnotkidding

I'm still a bit devastated, but this too shall pass.

You've got to look. And take pics. Seriously - why is there an e-start button on there (the red thing below the regular vintage switches)? Suggests someone swapped the engine with a modern one (but then you gave us an old engine no. so contradicts. But take lots of photos and post them here. The two we've seen are pretty damning for origin but who knows the actual state. Sometimes someone else has taken the big hit and then rectified many of the problems (by replacing the motor for one...)

People are taught all kinds of ridiculous things.

Pretty sure we are all attempting to speak English here.
"Creepy" is your word choice.
To me, it's the cringe-inducing equivalent of adults using "baby talk".

edit: so somebody actually wet their pants over this (my opinion) and gave it a "negative"?
Hilarious. Must be an automatic owner who calls their scooter "Becky".

pretty common for some SEA bikes to have e-start motors. i've seen a bunch of them. usually the switch is just glued onto the bottom of the switch housing or headset with some epoxy.

anyway, could be a PX150 motor or an LML variant.

might not ALL be trash, but good from far and far from good in this instance.

-g

I'd take a px150 or LML risk over the original engine risk tho. Can 100% guarantee the original engine would've been thrashed to bits and then coke can shimmed and bearing peened to a 'complete engine rebuild' status (aka running bodge). Just maybe they couldn't save the original engine for love nor money (!!!) and had to put a new engine in? What gets me is the

"engine number shows she's a '66 150 Super Motor"

- with an e-start??? Like what is going on here? Engine number re-stamp?

Just a thought... in the USA if you sell someone a bike you know is unsafe and they crash and get hurt... surely that is a $$$ lawsuit waiting to happen. There must be some serious legal ramifications. And based on that could you not contact the seller and threaten them with this to get your $ back?

In NZ we have a no-fault accident compensation system which means you can't sue (well almost never) and a private sale like this would be really hard to reverse.

If I'm assuming this is a private sale through craigslist as that seems to be the standard way of moving bodges?

Additionally we have rules in NZ about false claims when selling stuff. This could give some right of recourse on our usual online trading site. Always hard... but possible. But does craigslist have any rules/responsibilities about claims and representation of goods? What about state laws?

I got my $ back because I bought mine from a registered motor trader - knowing that there are a lot of extra rules that apply to them and a government agency that will step in if the seller does dodgy stuff. Had to go to 'court' (a disputes tribunal) but this is an almost free service. They even made the seller pay for the cost of the mechanic assessing the scooter.

When I saw the title I was instantly concerned this would turn out to be another happy new owner of a disappointing bodge. Sorry for your situation Dina. Technically this is only true if you specifically stated something that can be proven to be false. Such as "never been in an accident" or "rebuilt motor". Most states have specific laws regarding private party sales of motor vehicles stating they are "assumed to be as-is", and often such wording is included in the fine print of the private party title transfer. If in doubt you could (should) always use a Bill of Sale document reiterating "as-is, buyer assumes all liability, etc". Based on the law you could sell such a vehicle with minimal details such as "Old Vespa scooter. Runs. As-is." With such an advertisement the burden of inspection and assumption of risk is entirely on the buyer. Again this only works for unknown or unstated defects, it does not protect you from specifically stating something false or misleading in the ad. Also this does not necessarily protect you from being sued, but does make such a lawsuit much easier to defend against. Save hardcopies of the ads and any paperwork just in case, this goes for either side of such a transaction.

**Just to be clear I am NOT advocating this bike be sold in such a fashion. I am pointing out to anyone who ends up with such a bike that the law may well not be on their side.**

Of course dealers have many requirements in selling a properly described vehicle in the US. Some types of private party sales also carry specific protections. On eBay, for instance, there are specific protections in place not for understated defects (a scratch or dent which was missed) but for significant title and misrepresentation errors. If this bike was sold as a "1966 Super 150" or claimed to have a certain motor installed which could be proven incorrect you would have recourse through eBay. The no-doubt restamped frame number would qualify for an immediate case with eBay.

The listing photos appear to me to have come from "Let-Go" or "Offer-Up" which are phone apps with typically very limited descriptions and no buyer protections as they only facilitate a conversation between the buyer/seller and do not handle any of the actual transaction details. As such I don't believe she has any legal recourse no matter what defects may be found on the scooter at this point. It may be worth contacting the seller with any serious title discrepancies and requesting to reverse the transaction, but they are not really under any legal requirement to do so. If they knew what they were selling they won't be surprised and probably wrote the ad in such a way to protect themselves. If they were truly unwitting and an honest person they may take the scooter back (unlikely I admit).

My advice is to have someone with mechanical ability inspect the bike for any significant defects. At that point you would understand if:

a)The bike is safe to ride at all
b)What repairs would be necessary to bring it up to your personal standard of safety/reliability
c)If you were to decide to sell it you could accurately describe all the faults in the new listing.

Best advice is to be upfront with anyone, either prospective repair shop or prospective buyer of the scooter for parts/project by anyone in the future.

Just a sec, scoot was listed as a 1963, then a 1968, turns out it's neither. Sounds like outright fraud to me.

Need more details about the transaction, but if I were the OP I'd be all over the scam artist that sold me this POS to get my money back - and more.

The OP parted with hard earned cash to buy something that was not what it was advertised to be. She shouldn't just "chalk it up to experience" or consider it a "lesson learned". If the seller won't make it right, that's what small claims court is for.

Exactly that, plus the fact that the VIN is incorrect and misses letters / digits...

Bodgespotting