Modern Vespa

Hi, I have read a few threads and it looks like I have a problem on my selenoid, starter motor or my starter clutch is not engaging, but I don't know how to isolate the problem. It's a Vespa ET4 125 2005 and it's not starting.

1 - Sounds like the starter motor spins then stops
2 - Sometimes if I move the vespa one feet forward it'll engage and start
3 - It's stalling on red lights then sometimes just starts again and sometimes it won't
4 - Kickstarting works

Here's a video with the sound it makes when it doesn't start: Is this something that someone without prior mechanical experience can do? I need to identify what's gone wrong and then fix it, money is tight right now so if doable, I'd like to try my hand at sorting this out.

Thanks

Hello, great of you to produce the video, excellent!

Yes, you can take care of this without any trouble or special knowledge.

I'd say, take a look at this thing, here an ET 4 125 motor with the variator cover removed. The red line shows the starter gears;



You'll need to block the variator wheel from turning, this tool is great, costs around EUR15. Here, the green line.

Once blocked, the wheel is removed, it just pulls off, blue line.

The small gear assembly just pulls out. Clean it, re-lube the gears, make sure the spindle moves freely.

No cost as yet, this may do it for you.

Otherwise, I'd get another, or a new starter. The Vespa is a 2005 model, a starter motor is not a great cost factor.

Remove the carb, and you can access the starter motor from the top.

Welcome to the forum.

Thank you for this, the image and instructions are great and I found the variator locking tool showing on your photo so I can order that.

Now I need to learn how to remove the variator cover.

In this video at 1:22 she mentions another locking tool, clutch holder locking tool, do I need this as well?

Thanks for your help

The video, that gal has some good ones out there, easy to follow.

Concerning the clutch tool, it's not absolutely necessary, I have one and I use it. The clutch can be affixed with a screwdriver or similar tool. The tool is handy though, I'd order it while you're at it. You may have to release the belt from the assembly, then you'll need to unscrew the clutch. Just a 19mm nut, then the clutch slips off the axle. Just, the clutch has to be held in place, hence the tool.

This is not especially difficult, but generally a bolt off and bolt on operation.

I'm sure you will receive help here should questions arise.

I think I'll be able to pull this off...but more questions arise... like, what do I clean the starter gears with? And where do I apply the lube? I've taken the part and added some numbers, would I apply lube only to 1, 2 and 3 areas? thanks

I used to clean them thoroughly using petrol or paraffin (kerosene...) then add no lube at all. If there's any oil on or in it, it'll just start to bind up again when belt/brake dust gets in there.

Be sure to properly torque the nuts when you put them back. Be sure you don't pinch the belt in the variator. Watch this and let Robot tell you how its done: Its an LX150 but they are close.

Sounds like your starter (or perhaps battery) is dead. With the cover off you should be able to see what's happening. From the sound, I'd guess that the gears are engaging, but the starter isn't turning. If the Bendix was jammed, you'd hear the starter spinning up, but not turning the engine.

You should be able to see the gears engaging, or not, and the starter spinning the engine over. Or not.

It will start if left alone or if I move the vespa back and forth a little. Would this not rule out dead battery or dead starter.

Will see if I can get the cover off over the weekend. Thanks

Sorry, dead batteries are dead batteries, and won't work.

I strongly feel this is a starter-related problem, from the info and background behaviour already related.

Should the battery not turn at all, could be the consequence of many previously failed starting attempts.

At any rate, a fresh battery charge would be advisable while waiting for parts to arrive. Cheap and reliable chargers can be found, overnight charge and all is good again.

this video is not working for me

The first step before you do anything else is charge the battery and see what it does then.

At 1:35 he mentions that the nut that secures the variator is a one use nut with a bevel washer that collapses and won't hold the torque correctly, part number 436783, is that the same on the ET4?

Asking as I don't have a torque wrench, so how necessary are these two steps?

Cheers

Is that better?

Yes, I've done more reading now, thanks.

Would you or any other member know if there's a version of the $19 Harbor Freight torque wrench (that you recommended on an older thread) that I can buy here in the UK? Either 1/2" or 3/8" works. Cheers

The only times I've seen cheaper torque wrenches in the UK have been at Aldi or Lidl, during one of their weekly 'specials'.

Scour ebay or find a friend down the pub who's got one!

Ebay looks pretty competitive on tools, so I had a look at Amazon and they have a click Silverline 7-105 Nm, 3/8 inch for £21 with almost 1000 reviews and a beam Draper 1/2 inch for £15.

Reviews I read about both goes from, does the job and it's as accurate as Norbar or Teng, to it's utter shite...

Ignore the 'utter shite' reviews. OK, they aren't good for 1000 torque tests a day for three years on a production line - but they will be fine for a home mechanic who uses it five times a year. Even if they are 20% off in their reading (unlikely, most will be no worse than 5%) they are a bloody sight better than relying on 'elbow strain' alone, unless you're already a seasoned bike tech with years of experience.

I agree with jimc on the torque wrenches.

My old one had somehow disappeared (?), a Lidl wrench was used on the motor build and it's still running just fine.

Thanks for this, parts list is growing, since it's approaching 7500 miles I might just do the service now.

Parts (£56.55)
£15 - OEM Variator rollers 19x17, 8g
£2 - Variator sliders
£3.5 - Variator nut
£25 - OEM belt
£3.5 - DOT 4 Brake and Clutch Fluid- Rock Oil
£7.55 - Spark Plug CR8EIX

Tools (£38)
£11 - Variator Locking Tool
£7 - Clutch Holding Tool
£15 - Beam Draper Torque wrench (+70 foot/pounds)
£5 - 16mm Spark plug socket
£0 - 8mm Socket
£0 - 18mm Socket (60 foot/pounds - variator nut)
£0 - 19mm Socket (45 foot/pounds - back wheel nut)
£0 - Screwdriver

Extras (£5.5)
£2.50 - brake cleaner
£0 - scouring pad
£5 - Locktite Blue
£0 - zip line

Total £100