Modern Vespa

Hello,
Picked a nice 2007 GTS 250
Not knowing it's service history,
I changed the engine and gear oil.

Now to the coolant:

After drain at water pump and pouring new coolant in manually
roughly 42 oz goes up to the MAX line.

Full fill is:
2.1 liters (71 us fluid oz) ...yes???

Bled till NO bubbles.
Rode around for 2 miles and coolant never dropped (with the 42 oz)
Temp gauge was in the middle the whole time.
Guessing the thermostat never opened? ..... is this normal ???

Should I just let it run in the driveway and watch the fluid
level till the thermostat opens ???

Thanks,
Eric

Was that GTS 250 the green one on Facebook Marketplace? If so, that is a really nice bike and the price was fairly reasonable. If I didn't already have seven scooters, I would have bought it myself. Good luck with it!

If you bled it properly and all, I don't think you'd expect the level to drop....unless I'm missing something.

No red from Upper Black Eddy, PA

Well ....... I know how much coolant I poured in and it is not the full
amount bike calls for (however I don't know how much residual coolant/
flush remained in the system from the start of my fill)

Also I can squeeze the output hose (hot side) and feel there is NO coolant in it!

It's very hard to purge all the air from the coolant system. Try rocking the scoot from side to side (not too violently!) also, riding over speed humps in the road can release trapped air. Give it a few more rides then check the air bleed valve again.

When I changed the coolant in my GTS300, I drained it by disconnecting the outside hose on the water pump, dropping the hose down as low as possible, tipping the bike over to the right as far as I could, and generally trying to get all the coolant out. I flushed it with water by putting a garden hose into the reservoir for a while, then draining again. I then found (like you) that it took a bit over half the stated capacity to fill it up again (including bleeding). No top-ups have been required since, so I don't think there's a litre of air in the system. Clearly, you can't get all of the coolant out. I've found the same thing with my cars. I think it just emphasises the need to change the fluid every 2 years as recommended, because you're really only replacing half of it each time.

Cheers. - Jim.

how many oz's did you get out when draining?

John

You must have mineral free tap water over there. I only use distilled water when flushing my scoots.

+1

Another thing to consider even if you are using distilled water to flush, is that if you don't get all the water out prior to filling with coolant, the coolant will be diluted.

Personally on my scooters I have never seen really bad condition of coolant (discolored, bits of rust, whatever). It is always pretty much like new, so I just dump out what I can, and refill.

Watch Motorsports GTS coolant flush on YouTube.

My research found that water is better for heat transfer than propylene/ethylene glycol and here in FL, freezing isn't a problem. But the inhibiters are also diluted, so no more than 2 years before I change coolant.

When you drain the coolant some is still is the bike. You are overthinking

Am I now?
I drain the bike, Fill with water. Run the bike until it get's to running temperature, let cool and drain the bike. Repeat two more times. Now there is a high percentage of water remaining. Fill with 50/50 premix coolant. Whatever's left in the bike dilutes the premix.

If I worried about the proper mixture because I lived in a freezing climate, that would be too much thinking

If I worried about it, I'd repeat the process, but add full strength coolant. Then you'll have created a 50/50 mix in the radiator, no?

Why do I feel like I am where angels fear to thread right now?

My LX gets fresh cooling fluid every ride. That's gotta be best right?

I was responding to Madison sully. I'm sure he understood it. Sorry to confuse you.

I could use Engine Ice because I live in Florida. Engine Ice has no Glycol in it, only rust inhibiters. No worry.

Engine ice is for a built motor that doesn't have as large a radiator as needed.
You should never have to use "Engine Ice" in a stock motor every riding through death valley in the summer. Waist of money and may not be compatible.

Good to know. I don't use it.
The point of my response to Sully was that he doesn't mind a small amount of old coolant remaining when he does a coolant replacement and I don't mind a small amount of dilution when I remove all the old coolant.

I got it.

Just remember, as soon as you get the coolant over a 50/50 mix, you have a corrosive fluid in your cooling system.

Never guess, measure properly.

And unless the fluid is nasty I just drain and flush every two years and don't flush. If I was going to flush I would do it with coolant mix, not water though. It's not hard to do with a trip to a boating store to get an engine winterizing kit.and the right couplers.

Where do you get that going over 50/50 being "corrosive" idea? Most coolant brands I see suggest a maximum of ~70% coolant for highest freeze point suppression.

Is a premix coolant and half water okay in florida.? That would be less than half coolant.

Depends on winter weather where you live in Florida. I suspect there is no problem in Naples or Miami.

Was always taught not to go over 50/50, but reading says if needed you can go up to 70/30. I am sure it is more corrosive that 50/50 mix though.
And a 70/30 mix does lower your boiling point.

70/30. Water to coolant. I have lived here for 40 years and never had outdoor water freeze solid. This is florida. Gainesville.

That's why I don't care if my coolant gets diluted to 45/55 or a little less. So I choose to flush out all of the old coolant. The 1st number is coolant, 2nd number is water.

Thanks.

Robot from Scooterwest has a coolant change video with some VG pointers one process and specific for this scooter. I would not have begun to keep a water pump O-ring on hand were it not for his comments.

As WEB-Tech says, depending on the type of coolant you use, going over a 50/50 mix can be detrimental to the engine. Mostly this is because it alters the cooling properties of the coolant, making it less effective as a coolant. Some coolants can become more corrosive to some types of engine components in mix ratio's above 50/50, but this all depends on the engine materials used and the type of coolant in use ie: HOAT, NOAT, OAT or many other types of coolant. But that's not very common these days and that's why it's always best to follow manufacturers instructions on the type of coolant to use and the mix ratio.

If anyone is running a weaker than recommended mix ratio, as long as it is not off by much from the recommended ratio, it's ok. But don't go too far from the manufacturers recommendations because remember your water pump depends on not only good quality coolant to lubricate it's seals but also the right mix strength.

What about 100% distilled water in a hot climate? Or 25% coolant.? Seems iread race bikes run 100% water.? Curious.

Race bikes use a racing coolant designed to raise the boiling point as much as possible, and maximise heat transfer from engine to coolant. It's not viable to race with just distilled water. Pump seals fail without coolant to lubricate the seals. A low mix ratio of coolant to water is also not a great idea as pump life is shortened & anti corrosion properties are impeded. It's not just about how much freeze protection you may or may not need.

It may be surprising, but distilled water is very corrosive.
One big reason coolant manufacturers require use of distilled water to mix is then you don't have the variability in local water sources mucking up the mixture. So all the lubrication and corrosion inhibition comes from the coolant mixture.

But as far as using pure distilled water as coolant, you'd be better off using tap water (don't do that either!).

I want to know more about this Engine Ice. I've been using Moto Chill, by BelRay, or Honda Red coolant, but Engine Ice looks interesting.

http://www.liquidperformance.com/motorcycle/

Their non-glycol product is named Ice Water. I use Street Bike.

I noticed that the company I buy from uses deionized water. When I worked with Electric Discharge Machining, (Wire EDM) the machines had deionized water filters and that's different than distilled water.

Distilled water is better in your engine than de-ionised water. Although you can use de-ionised water if you must. The difference is you can get bacterial build up in the de-ionised water, and in some small number of cases this can be extreme causing not only corrosion, but blockages in the cooling system if you don't do high mileages to get the engine very hot. There are also more minerals in de-ionised water that can calcify and other things in the engine. However, de-ionised water is much better than tap water.

Another good reason for a 2 year flush.