OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Hey all

Mounting the PK XL fork into the VBB/Sportique and not sure what to make of the lower bearing race. The VBB bearing is so different from the PK bearing/lower race set. It's like the VBB race is part of the frame? Can't make sense of how the new bearing/race is meant to seat/fit.

Scooterhelp has a GS 150 fork, P200 bottom race (as a spacer) with VBB race on top (uncaged bearings) - https://www.scooterhelp.com/restorations/vbb.10inch.html
A resto book I have shows removing the race from the frame and a fork tube also - neither of which seem to be on my VBB. The SIP kit (where I got the lower bearing from) links to an exploded drawing that doesn't even have the fork bearings on it...
https://sip-scootershop.com/en/products/mounting+kit+pk50125sssxl_j9012600

https://sip-scootershop.com/main/service/PartsCataloguesDetails.aspx?table=23880e94-643a-4c15-907f-b787182303fa

Any help appreciated.
My lower race? Do the uncaged bearings normally just run against this?
My lower race? Do the uncaged bearings normally just run against this?
Old (VBB) vs new (from the SIP kit)
Old (VBB) vs new (from the SIP kit)
UTC

Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
 
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
UTC quote
Looks like you have the early type frame same as me - as far as I'm aware the later type requires you to press the lower race bearing into the frame.

The earlier type needs this bearing set - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/steering+head+bearing+set+_90110000 .

and it just fits in there securely when the top race is tightened up by the headset
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4076
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4076
Location: california
UTC quote
Pheas' - Is the SIP set a single piece or did you stack those to show?

Not sure if helpful - but here are pics of the bearing set up I am using - also from SIP.

Is it possible that you just have to punch out your existing lower race - and put in the one that came with your new set?
A is dust cover - goes on fork first.  B Sits on top next, face up.  C on next, also face up as shown.  D is flipped over and put inside frame where your current race sits.
A is dust cover - goes on fork first. B Sits on top next, face up. C on next, also face up as shown. D is flipped over and put inside frame where your current race sits.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Frame race is now flipped and on top of the stack as it would sit in the frame
Frame race is now flipped and on top of the stack as it would sit in the frame
Guess I coulda cleaned it off first... but here is the existing race that is still in my frame.
Guess I coulda cleaned it off first... but here is the existing race that is still in my frame.
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
I think Ant1985 is correct. Cannot see any pressed-in/removable bearing race. I had thought/recalled that it relied on tightening on the upper end of the fork to pull this lower end into alignment. Guessing I will be solving how to have the lower race bearing spaced correctly - hopefully as described on scooterhelp by just putting my old px200 bearing race on first.

I don't think this SIP Kit race will work in the same way as the shape is wrong - too wide to be pressed in, and too narrow to align with what is there. It clearly needs to be pressed in.
UTC

Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
 
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Hey guys - thanks heaps for your help on this. Again I think Ant1985 is correct. I have the same set as you charlieman22 - but admit I had the order of assembly incorrect. The book How To Restore Classic Largeframe Vespas can be hard to follow/ambiguous at times (but is an awesome resource and I recommend it - like scooterhelp in paper form). But there is no way to remove or press in a race presently - like Ant says it is an earlier version. No fork tube (as per the book) either - which I don't think any VBBs have.

Guessing that Jockeys kit is designed exactly for these early models - as indicated by the "till No 82819" - mine is a 60000's.

Ant - the first link you sent looks the same as what charlieman22 and I have - no way to seat that race.

Looking at the Jockeys kit it seems like the pieces indicated are for this purpose. The hole in the frame at the bottom of mine is ~45mm (really hard to measure because can't get the calipers in there), and the top is 35mm - neither have any lip that would prevent something pressed into them from going right through. Guessing these pieces seat into the holes in the frame.

Also realising that there is the possibility that I removed something (the equivalent of the bits indicated in this picture) from the VBB when tearing it down and have misplaced them. Otherwise the original bearings are just grinding against the frame - and that surely can't be right??? For interest's sake I'll dig through my bits... But guessing they are trashed anyway so probably order some new bits.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Just to be clear - those indications on the picture are my assumption (added by me). Of course there are no instructions or exploded diagram to explain this set!
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Solved... Feeling dumb. Looked in the greasy bag that for some reason I thought had PX200 bearing bits in it and found the pieces I was after. Guess this is the problem when the build drags out - start losing track (esp when working in such a confined space - makes me tuck things away).

The new SIP upper bearing mount is 36.5mm vs 35mm so doesn't fit. Thinking that's a bit too much to press.

Found the lower mount. Time to degrease, see what the state of it is, and how it matches up with what I have.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@koenig_blues avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5802
Location: Indo
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@koenig_blues avatar
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a yellow sunshine '74 sprint
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5802
Location: Indo
UTC quote
There a time when i am in ur shoes Brother P, forget where i put the lower race and build one new but i have to tight it again every months, once i found the original one i put it where it belong and never have a problems for the last 5 years and going



Good luck with the conversion and cheer
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
Bits of VBB, PX200, PK, custom who knows what... hard to keep track of everything! When there is finally one bike it will be amazing.

Kids wanted to join me in the shed today to play with the dremel and carve some wood. It's like that game where you can see how many people you can fit in a mini. Except with power tools.
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
1964 all cleaned up.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
UTC

Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
 
Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 128
Location: London
UTC quote
That's exactly the set up I have and it just fits up inside the frame! And secures when you tighten the top bearing race
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4076
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4076
Location: california
UTC quote
Pheas'. Once you clean sawdust from Dremel work from your anodized sip parts, have a close look at that lower race. Very subtle brass is showing through the hardening in the exact same where I found on mine. Frankly looks fine generally speaking. But I noticed that on mine I had the same marks you do and they resided left and right facing the bike.

If you reuse the parts (not sure u r), and you see the same wear on yours, I would rotate them 90°. It looks like the bearings receive more left right then for aft pressure in use.

Clarification: if on closer inspection of the lower race you see marks 180° across from each other I would orient those fore and aft when putting back in the bike to give those left right surfaces newer seating areas to work with.
OP
@pheasant_plucker avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
 
Molto Verboso
@pheasant_plucker avatar
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1379
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
UTC quote
That brass color wasn't there until I hit it with the brass wire dremel tip. The race itself had some very faint marks... I polished them out.

Am planing on ordering the JB set anyway. The lower race seat (my frame) must be slightly worn as there is some play. Guess that's what happens when you chem strip the corrosion off the frame and clean the muck off the race mount. But rather not rely on corrosion and muck for a solid fit.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0142s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0046s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]