Modern Vespa

After being given a good condition Stella 2T from a relative, and then a few short months later lucking into a non-running but really low mileage 2014 Genuine Stella 125 Auto, I have spent the past year really diving into working on both of these bikes. Having recently finished getting the stella auto in running order, I have been looking for an actual classic vespa project to take on my first full rebuild/restoration to really learn the ins and outs of every part of these bikes.

I have had a few missed calls on running but restore-ready rally's. Today I made that happen with a craigslist purchase of someone else's former project p200e that they took apart and then never completed, having stored it for 20 yrs in a storage unit and then under tarps in their backyard. So it's kind of a barn find, except the owner of the barn decided to find it where it always was and throw it up online for me to find.

I paid $500 for a nearly complete 1980 P200E which has mild surface rust on the frame and engine. He even had the original title, which he never registered in his name, just filled out at the time of his purchase in 2001. The title has it registered as a 1982 P200E, but the vin number on the frame neck and the engine numbers both match a 1980 P200E. The sticker/label on the frame neck even has a manufacturing date stamp of 7/80. This was a surprise to me and actually am very happy about it as it was listed as 1982 and I kept thinking "Goddamn why can't it be 1980 my birth year! That would be awesome". So this bike is 1 month younger than me. Ha!

He did store a lot of the hardware and things like turn switches in a bucket under the tarp, which was full of water, so a lot of that hardware is rusted beyond usable. The clutch is also rusted beyond usable after being removed from engine and left out. Some rust on the exposed engine internals, but to my surprise, a spin of the flywheel and it turned over easily. Same for the rear wheel hub, turned over by hand no problem with the internal gears rotating smoothly! I was expecting a seized solid engine due to being stored outside with the clutch removed for approx 20 yrs. Even the gas tank interior is not rusted out. Just the gas cap is.

So far the only stuff I can see is missing for major components is the throttle tube, original seat (he provided a butt ugly large seat I think is actually a motorcycle seat), badges and clutch/brake levers. The turn switches are rusted beyond usable as mentioned earlier. The tractor tail light is there, along with a wrong year tail light. The front fender is rusted and dented pretty bad, but he also had purchased a new replacement front fender which is still new! He even had a brand new wiring loom still in the packaging from whenever he purchased it, along with the original wiring loom.

I will be stripping paint down, sanding out any rust and doing a full rebuild with updates here.

My first question, now that I am in possession of this p200 is ... it is possible to remove the factory stickers on the leg shields (one has the vin and date stamp, the other is just manufacturer info) while keeping them undamaged so that they can be reapplied after new paint job? I would like to keep these original details, while still allowing for a fresh paint job. Also hoping I can remove the rust on the frame where the numbers are to clear them up and make them more visible?

BTW.. engine came with a 20/20D carb despite it being a 1980. Scooterhelp.com says only later 1981-1982 P200E's came with a 20/20D carb.

You can get re-printed stickers from 2nd Avenue Scooters. Website is down but can contact him via Facebook.

I'll have to check it out! Are they metallic surfaced stickers like the original?

Yes, I think so. Its been a while since his website been up. You can stamp the info on yourself or send a pic with the frame number or a clear pic of your current stickers and he can stamp the info before sending.

So I am thinking, since I have a Stella 125 Auto and this bike, I may try to swap the LML disc brake frontend for this p200 front end to get disc brakes on the p200. I know that Bitza and others had mentioned on my other thread about T5 headsets that the vespa and lml forks are different. I am wondering if the p200 headset would fit on the LML fork with little to no modification? Probably needs the LML appropriate fork hardware, but if the original headset fits on that LML fork then I will try to do this mod.

I may be gullible in hoping this is accurate mileage, but I think there is a possibility!

The original title from 1982 has 1250 miles listed. The previous owner bought it in 2001, said he rode it briefly then disassembled it to repaint it and then got married and had kids and never got to it.

I know that its more likely one of the previous owners just never got the speedo cable working once it broke, but one can dream it is such low mileage. Given its good condition, I think they may have just never ridden it while it was still together.

Your P2 headset should fit the LML fork fine. In this case I personally would not do it as the fully hydralic headset bottom is different as is the headset top with bigger speedo etc. Of course you could do it but to me it seems wrong on a nearly unspoiled close on 40 year old bike. If disc brakes are really calling to you I'd look at the Grimeca semi hydralic systems for the 16mm axle and then it will look like it was converted in the early to mid 80's and for more sympathetic to your bike IMHO.

I'd also bin the 20/20 and go for a 24/24.

Maybe get all the mechanicals rebuilt/repaired/replaced, then give it some ferocious loverubs and ride it this Summer? Who knows, it just might clean up real nice - that factory paint is pretty tough(except silver ) and it is only original once. If it's just too ugly, you'd likely do a better job pepping for new paint next year after you get it running right. Use a good rust treatment on any rust for now.

This what you are talking about?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/disc+brake+grimeca+classic+nt+_30005000

I like that option way more than the LML frontend, as I was also thinking about how the headset wouldn't work with the master cylinder from lml.

I too am not keen on throwing an LML fork in and removing the original parts. Something about keeping it as original as possible just feels right. But I would still like to modernize a few things like front brakes, Malossi top end and a full dc system. So if I can do that stuff while remaining as faithful as possible, I will be happy! It also doesn't feel right parting out any original parts removed for these types of upgrades, so I would rather keep all original parts that are still usable.

looks like a worthy candidate, it's so fun!!!

I debated on going the full disc route, and was debating on the exact things you're going through. It ended up being cost prohibitive and I shelved it for more pressing matters, like an exhaust.

I have taken a few more pictures tonight to get details of the frame. I do think there is validity and importance to keeping the original paint as long as possible. With this frame, I am just not sure if the desire to keep the original paint is sacrificing the protection of the frame from rust. I have never done any of this stuff before so I just don't know how easy or how much rust inhibition can be done while keeping the original paint, given how much surface rust there is. I don't think the rust that exists is major, but again, I have never done this so I feel like it is surface rust that might be starting to go deeper with pitting in some spots. None of the metal feels fragile as if the rust has eaten away at its strength, still feels like there is still a lot of "meat" on the frame. But in a few spots it looks like there is risk of worse damage without steps to protect it before it gets worse.

Here are some details of the frame. I have not washed it off yet to remove a lot of the dirt and dust just stuck to it.

I went through all the milk crates of parts to sort things out and see what was there and wasn't. Here are some images of most of the parts, aside from the bucket that was full of water and rusted out hardware.

Really liked this detail.. original keys with leather keychain of the dealership this was probably purchased new at. I say that because there is a sticker on inside of glove box with same store name and address. Love that searching this site shows a couple results of other vespas found with same dealer sticker on them!

Sticker on the glove box that matches the keychain:

I am a little concerned about the fact that I cannot see the serial number below the vsx1t stamped on the frame with piaggio stars due to rust.



I thought maybe I would be able to see the mirror of it on the back side due to embossing, so I tried to take a picture of it with my phone. I don't think its visible on the back side.. so either the stamp of numbers and star was not deep enough or it did not get done? Should I be worried about this?

I believe the vsx1t numbers are stamped (think i ran my fingers over it to check, but wasn't too detailed in my examination) into the neck below the sticker so it is probably original.

I've decided I'm going to attempt to clean up this frame while preserving as much original paint as possible, not worrying about if it creates uneven coverage of paint. I'll try the scotchbrite/0000 wool on worse rust sections and wet sand the rest hopefully removing the smaller rust dotted all over the frame. Then i will coat the whole frame on owatrol penetrating oil. Then clean up all trim and aluminum with scotchbrite.

I'll try to completely coat the interior with that oil without sanding. Then rebuild the mechanical stuff and get it running. I can always go back later if the rust worsens to sand blast and repaint completely, but i mine as well try the easier solution first.

And here is my first 15 min of using a brass brush and 0000 steel wool on a few parts where the rust was worst.

Original before starting to remove rust:

Nice find! I'd vote to keep the battle scarred original paint. Clean it up and treat what's there. You're the caretaker now, not the owner.

Currently trying to figure out how to smooth out the pitted metal areas while keeping the paint around it. Should I be using the brass wire wheel or dremel tool with sandpaper/grinder to smooth out that metal section on the fender?

I want to take as much rust off as possible without being too aggressive on the paint.. and if possible, smooth out whatever pitting the rust has caused. Not sure the best method for doing this.. wet sanding I think was mentioned for the paint, not the pitted rust sections.

Kindof like how these types of bikes turn out:

I am starting to clean up my garage a bit to make a little space to work on this project. While I was pulling things out of garage to do that, I blew out the nest inside the frame and took some detailed pictures of the whole frame to get a good idea of what I am starting with.

The frame itself seems solid, no warping, bends or issues where the leg shield attaches to floor at the front, or where the floor attaches to the back below the seat.

There is some decent amount of surface rust inside the frame tunnel due to the nesting that some animal was using it for. Is there a way to remove the rust scale from inside the frame tunnel along the floorboard as is? If not, I guess I'll just pour owatrol oil down there trying to get every inch of it covered as much as possible.

...and I am slowly chipping away at the rust over the frame stamp number. I want to take all the scale and rust away, while hopefully keeping the stamp intact. Not sure how to do that if I need to sand/grind it because of pitting.

You'll have to either grind the pitted metal or use a fairly abrasive sandpaper (like 80 grit) if you want to smooth it out.

I used Siem Rust Seal directly on my rusty smallframe. It's easy to apply and dries to a cool satiny finish. I almost left it that way.

Various tests to see how to uncover the frame stamp number without damaging it. The stamp itself is not very deep.

First tried scotchbrite with CLR.. that took a lot of the scale off but ended up starting to pull off the paint around the edges of the rust due to my scrubbing.

So then I switched to pure vinegar on a soft sponge and noticed that was very quickly clearing parts of it up, so I got the sponge soaked in vinegar then lightly clamped it to the rust spot and left it there for a few hours. This seems to work well, and you can start to see the correct numbers on the frame matching the front neck stamp. So I am leaving it overnight and will come back to remove the rest of the rust tomorrow.

I have been testing different ways to remove the rust on the frame proper, to understand what the extremes of removal there are and find out which looks best. I took a brass wire wheel to the rust spot on the inside of the cowl. This is too aggressive for me as I don't like the idea of leaving the progression of bare metal, rust edges and paint surrounding, so I'll be doing what you guys suggested and just smoothing out the rust leaving it there for color instead of bare metal, then using owatrol oil to neutralize and stain it leaving the rust color with the maroon paint. Once I smooth all the rust and wet sand the whole body, I'll use clay bar over the paint to liven it up.

A quick wash to a few panels with car wash and the paint looks good as is, so will look great after wet sanding and clay bar.

Also posting some details of damage to the bottom of the glove box where the really thin lip has chipped off due to rust.

Good info. I've decided to be way more conservative in the rust removal and not go this route of complete stripping to bare metal. Given that I am not gonna repaint the whole thing right now, leaving the rust where visible and just sanding it smooth before using penetrating oil to neutralize, I think it will have a better aesthetic than bare metal spots all over the bike.

I honestly believe this engine has seen no more than the 2200 on the speedometer. This carb is practically spotless, float and needle are brand new. gaskets look brand new.

Work on this has been on hold for a day because my garage is so full now that I picked this P200 up, I have to move things constantly to work on anything, falling over stuff constantly.

So I took the day to build storage above the garage door and hang some lights instead of leaning the lights up against things and constantly falling over.

Just gotta find a friend to help grab some drywall sheets to put up over the bare walls with ancient insulation that keeps falling down, then I'll build a really long workbench with 1 side for Vespa projects, the other side for my enlarger and black and white darkroom printing at night!

Dunked the rusted keys and leather keychain in bucket of vinegar for 2 days. Scrubbed them off and this steering lock key still works perfectly! I'll make a copy of all these keys for safety and hang the original keychain and keys on the wall!

So this was the exhaust that came with this P200.. anyone know if this is the original or an early version of a sito+ or something similar?

Im gonna replace the exhaust with new, but wondering if I should keep it, sell it, or junk it?

It looks ok. You could cook it over a flame, clean up, and repaint with hi-temp spray paint, and use it. Seeing that it has low mileage, it's probably relatively clean inside.

Possibly, but due to the nesting that went on inside the frame, I would expect something similar inside this exhaust.

No matter. The barbecuing would burn all the debris up, and then just flush it out. Buy a new one if you want, but I'd use that one if it's original. If it's not original, then I'd toss it. There will some kind of IGM number on it if it's original.

Worth a shot. I'll throw it on the grill for an hour or so on high.

Still may upgrade the exhaust but this will do for now.

I am attempting to clean up the speedometer on my own. Took the bezel off to get at the lens and rust inside. Lens needs replacing as it is plastic and scuffed up to the point that it is not very clear anymore. The speedo faceplate is in good shape once I removed a majority of the rust. I will go back in with my airspray gun for model making to paint the bare area that was rusted black again. I also cleaned off the light proof foam off the back of the faceplate surrounding the neutral light lens cause it was decayed and gummy. Gonna replace it with camera shutter foam. Also gotta glue the plastic green neutral lens back to its mounting hole (model making glue for that). The inner bezel was rusted in one spot pretty bad so I am soaking it in vinegar and will scrub that out/sand it smooth then repaint with airspray gun. Finally, gotta find a replacement screw and grounding tab for the back as that was missing.

Once all that is done, and my replacement black outer bezel/lens and headset gasket arrive from speedo king, this thing will be good to go (the first completed task in this project)!

Again here is the before:


and here are the in progress..

Nice! Good job!

You have a heck of a job ahead of you there. I will be following.

Finished building a workbench for my garage so now i have space to work on this project when I get back from whiskey dick rally in the Poconos this weekend.

Gonna be working on this project at the same time as upgrading the top end on my Stella to malossi 166 mkiii.

Looks great!

Set up my engine stand and took the cylinder head off today to see what I'm working with. Some rusty studs and cylinder. Engine cases look great inside, but the top end, studs and crankshaft are gonna need to be cleaned up.

I think the piston and cylinder look like there is no damage.. just wondering if I can clean it up and plug it back in or if it needs to be bored out again?

Im thinking sandblasting the cylinder fins to remove rust and then it should be good to go?

Then again, I do plan on upgrading the top end at some point, but hopefully I can get it running as is earlier rather than later.

Studs I think can be reused with some wire wheel to remove the rust and then coating with owatrol oil to protect against rusting again.