Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:12 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:12 am linkquote
I have one of the older pre-CR80 BGM Superstrong's in my LML motor and didn't have to do nearly that much grinding on the oil guide to fit the cover.

I have one of the newer CR80 BGM's in my P200 motor and it's the one that I think needs the thicker spacer under the clutch, but I haven't really thought the whole thing through, to be honest. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me of why I can't adjust the clutch to adjust where I want it to in the lever throw.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:27 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:27 am linkquote
They both have the standard oiler gear cog behind the clutch. And the standard brass bush inside the clutch.

Reassembly of the Stella clutch cover went well!



Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:28 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:28 am linkquote
The Blood Sacrifice is what makes them run so well after you work on them.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:38 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:38 am linkquote
Price gouge on aisle 9. It's just a flesh wound. Mechanic bandage and back at it. (Wrapped blue garage paper towels around it and put a rubber glove on the hand.

Here's my tuned Stella clutch with the standard oiler gear cog behind it



Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:44 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2505
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:44 am linkquote
Ouch - I hate it when that happens!
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:01 am linkquote
That thust washer is fkd. Could turn it over, while waiting for a new one.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:20 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:20 am linkquote
What thrust washer is fkd?

Not seeing what you are pointing out.

Here is the p200 clutch and case. It wasn't the case beam.









Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:49 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:52 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:52 am linkquote
The spacer gear.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:04 pm linkquote
yeah I ran my fingernail over them and neither had noticeable grooves to them. I'm guessing jack is right and the oil grooves missing are not getting enough oil to the brass push rod so they are just wearing down too fast. I'll dremel new grooves and see if that fixes it. If not, looks like new clutch covers with spacers are up next.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:04 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:04 pm linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
yeah I ran my fingernail over them and neither had noticeable grooves to them. I'm guessing jack is right and the oil grooves missing are not getting enough oil to the brass push rod so they are just wearing down too fast. I'll dremel new grooves and see if that fixes it. If not, looks like new clutch covers with spacers are up next.
As CM said Spacer gear. From the pictures they both look fkd. They only really wear on the outside rim. If you look at a new one then look at either of yours, there is what looks like the usual ridge at the edge on both of them.
There are different thicknesses to customise whatever clutch you have to whatever primary cog. I change them about as often as the clutch plates.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:09 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:09 pm linkquote
Every one of my engines that has oiler has a gear spacer like that with rounded tooth on the outside. I just assumed that was the way they were designed. Easy replacement so those will be on order.

So the question is.. with a new oil gear spacer, does it still need a shim for the cosa 2 clutch in addition to that oiler gear?

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Clutch-Misc-Parts/COSASHIM
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:17 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:17 pm linkquote
The edge wears so evenly it looks like it's supposed to be grooved but that's the area that spins against the clutch cog.

The oil groove in the cover matches the oil catcher in the top of the casing. Make sure it all matches up to work at its best.

The cover spacers always leak. Most of my covers look a lot like yours.
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:26 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:26 pm linkquote
Awesome. So the "case beam" is not a structural beam, but it's purpose is to stop and redirect oil being flung up by the gearing back down onto the clutch by way of the oil channel in the lid. I always wondered how a simple channel in the lid could be effective enough at redirecting oil. That beam would definitely aid in sending way more oil down into the channel. Gonna revisit the custom channel and make sure it lines up with the beam and is deep enough to catch enough oil to send into the clutch.
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:24 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:24 am linkquote
Replacements on the way. Still not sure how those cogs get rounded on the tooth like that cause the crank, cog and clutch all rotate in unison in lock step with the woodruff key.

Also picked up some shims so I'll try with the shim to see if it helps.









Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:40 am linkquote
Think about what happens when the clutch lever is pulled.

0.5mm gap between cog and washer max.
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:05 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:05 am linkquote
Got it. The clutch cog moves inward and contacts the oil cog.

The Stella oil cog is actually not worn out so maybe that's why this engine doesn't have the same issues.

So the p200 worn cog is 3.39mm thick, the not worn Stella cog is 3.73mm. and you are suggesting no more than 0.5mm shim between the oil cog and the clutch cog? Shim goes there and not between the oil cog and crankshaft?

So the gap you are talking about is the distance between two cogs oil and clutch.. measuring this gap pictured between the cog sitting on top of the clutch and the clutch cog:


I'm wondering if there is a target or total distance the clutch should be from the crank bearing surface?

Ie. On my p200 with the 3.39mm thick oil cog, adding a 0.5mm shim would put the clutch 3.89mm from bearing, but the same 0.5mm shim on my Stella with 3.73mm thick oil cog would put the clutch 4.23mm from crank bearing.


Tuned Stella oil cog



Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:07 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:07 am linkquote
Does this gap matter? Distance from clutch gear cog to clutch inner crankshaft seat?



Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:34 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:34 am linkquote
Deeper oil ways dremeled in both lids. P200 channel walls right next to the push rod were ground down a bit too much to really guide oil directly onto the push rod so I dremeled out the squared off section inside the channels and made it a more pronounced funnel directly into the center of the push rod seat.

Hopefully this is all good enough to get better lubrication on the push rod and pressure plate.











Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:10 pm linkquote
Just watched a SIP video on the cosa clutch and they are suggesting ideal oiler cog spacer should be 3.5mm thick. So my stella is slightly thicker, which I'm guessing doesn't adversely affect the performance of the clutch as long as its not too thick of a spacer. Given the P200 oiler cog is less than 3.5mm, this may be why I'm unable to fully disengage the clutch with lever. I am curious to see how just getting a thicker cog, or adding a small spacer will affect the performance of the clutch.

I'm thinking this is why on my stella clutch, I can set the cable/lever to engage with minimal lever pull and the lever never bottoms out against the handlebar, whereas on my p200, it felt like the lever was always bottoming out on the handlebar before the clutch was really affected by the lever being pulled, even when cable set entirely too tight, the lever still bottomed out on the handlebar when pulled.

This answers both a problem and a question I have been struggling to understand as to how the two current ways I have of reducing play in the lever only seemed to affect the tightness of the cable, but not the "grippyness" and full range of movement of the clutch lever. Turning the cable adjustment nut underneath the engine can only do so much to reduce play in the cable, before it just starts over tightening the cable itself. Same with my clutch lever.. which I have the lever with adjustment knob built into the lever. Tightening that all the way does not affect lever play itself, but just how tight the cable is. So i'm understanding this oiler cog/spacer as the ideal way to set the clutch "disengagement" point on the lever. If you prefer slightly more play in the lever so that you have to squeeze the lever more.. use a 3.5mm spacer behind the clutch. If you are like me, and you prefer a lever that takes very little pull to disengage the clutch, add a slightly thicker than 3.5mm spacer behind the clutch. Then the fine tuning is done with the other external cable related options.
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:39 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:39 pm linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
Does this gap matter? Distance from clutch gear cog to clutch inner crankshaft seat?
This is the gap that should be 0.5mm. Between clutch centre and cog. It gets bigger than 0.5mm with different cogs or worn brass ring.

With the 118mm clutches the spacer is important, the fatter it is the more it will touch the cover.

That Stella cog is worn out too. So two to buy +spares. Put a straight edge on it and it is concave, can see it in the photo.

Clutch bottoming out on the lever is almost always the space between the bottom clutch plate and the basket. Not sure what this is in mm but a few, I know what good looks like.
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:58 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:58 pm linkquote
Well the P200 has a brand new SIP clutch with no more than 100 miles on it, which was the photo I took of that gap. I need to remeasure it, but I believe it was somewhere around 0.8mm gap when I took that photo. I find it hard to believe the brass bushing inside the clutch is worn out after 100 miles. I'm gonna pull them both apart tomorrow, bgm/sip and measure the gaps and the brass thrust washers inside each to see where they stand in comparison.

I know the stella/bgm clutch does not have these problems and can set up the lever properly without bottoming out. Part of that is the oil cog is 0.31 mm +/- thicker than the p200 cog. I'm guessing the other part of that is the SIP clutch has a gap thats another 0.30mm thicker than it should be. So that's over 0.60mm out of whack compared to where it should be.

I couldn't find brass clutch thrust washers in different thicknesses, so if the thrust washer that is in the sip clutch is not worn out as I suspect, and is the same thickness as the bgm one with over a thousand miles on it, then I'll do as the SIP description for the clutch spacer suggests, deck the clutch center on sandpaper so I can work it down 0.3mm to the correct gap of 0.5mm.

I'll clearly be doing more accurate measurements tomorrow to confirm I am not mistaken about the excessive gap, prior to removing the excess off the sip clutch part.
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:18 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:18 pm linkquote
Swiss - I had a broken clutch cover, I had been using with my crank puller tool to be a crank pusher (drilled a hole in it and ran the puller backwards. Don't ask).

Shot a picture of it so you can see the cross section.
If varies - and not a lot there...

Looks like you have already modified - but sharing this anyway for future if helpful.


Oil channel side


other half

Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:20 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:20 pm linkquote
SIP Thrust washer description is spot on for one of the P200 clutch issues I've been having:

"If the thrust washer is missing or defective, the clutch no longer separates cleanly and noticeably transmits drive forces into the gearbox, even if the driver keeps the clutch lever pulled."

CM22, if they are all consistently similar thickness in same spots as yours, then it looks like the lid is more thick at the top near the breather, which would mean that is the safest place to dremel a groove as has been done! I went as deep as I felt comfortable with while hoping it was deep enough to make a difference in trapping oil and feeding it downwards. Given your photo, I'd say I went about halfway or slightly more than halfway through. In fact, I can measure this tomorrow to get an accurate remaining thickness!
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:30 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:30 pm linkquote
The brass rings don't come in thicknesses but between companies they are different. When all three bits are made by different companies they will never be 0.5mm every time.

Picture of your 200 clutch. Sure the plain plates are in the right order. Thick in first, then notched, then thin and thin again.

Thrust washer should be sized to line up the clutch cog with the ring gear, while being as thin as possible, especially on a 118mm clutch. No other reason for selecting a different size.


Your 200 clutch

Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:36 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:36 pm linkquote
I did not realize there was a thicker clutch metal plate. So I must have reassembled it in wrong order when I took it apart to oil the cork plates.
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:42 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:42 am linkquote
If you didn't notice the thick plate then you sure didn't notice the notched one. Two are the same so half is easy.
Think this is most likely the clutch lever issue. New thrust washer correctly gapped and you will notice the difference.
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:34 am linkquote
Ok so both my BGM and SIP clutches had the thicker metal plate incorrectly positioned. There are 3 thin and 1 thick plates.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-plain-plate-kit-sip-cosa-2-clutch-cosa-2_23727400

The SIP clutch having problems also had dry cork plates probably from the lack of lubrication coming from the ground down cover. Hoping the new channel solves that problem. Brand new sip clutch thrust washer looks brand new and is 0.52mm thick. The BGM clutch with about 1500-3000 miles on it had a thrust washer with some wear on it (naturally) and measured 0.45mm. I'll order a few more thrust washers and make sure I replace them every year as part of end of winter prep.

Not sure how changing the order of the metal plates could affect the inner to outer gear cog gap, given the overall thickness of all the plates is the same no matter what order, but here are my measurements with wrong plate order and corrected plate order, which did affect the gap.

BGM (no problems running):
wrong plate order gap - 0.64mm
corrected plate order gap - 0.7mm
oiler gear cog thickness - 3.73mm
Thrust Washer thickness - 0.45mm

SIP:
wrong plate order gap - 0.59mm
corrected plate order gap - 0.69mm
oiler gear cog thickness - 3.39mm
Thrust washer thickness - 0.52mm

To visualize just how these minor differences can affect functionality here is a comparison of the uncorrected thickness of wrong plate order and worn oiler cog on the two clutches:

SIP - 3.98mm
BGM - 4.37mm

If I use the advertised brand new oiler cog thickness (3.7mm) to replace the existing oiler cogs on both, along with the difference from the advertised brand new thrust washer thickness and their current "worn" thrust washer thicknesses to represent replacing the thrust washer with new, plus their respective correct metal plate assembled gap, then the "correct" total thickness for both clutches would be:

SIP - 4.37 (this is the same as the current bgm clutch with 1500-3000 miles on it)
BGM - 4.45

So the SIP is currently 0.39mm thinner than it "should" be, and the BGM is 0.08mm thinner than it "should" be.

Thats it for me until I receive the new parts in the mail. BTW, Happy Thanksgiving everyone on this side of the pond... and happy generic day of the week to everyone else on the other side of the pond!


BGM Thrust washer w/approx. 1500-3000 mi. 0.45mm thickness.


metal plates correctly ordered


SIP Thrust washer 100-200 mi. 0.52mm thick


SIP Thrust washer


SIP Metal plates correctly ordered.

Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:11 pm

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
 
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2639
Location: california
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:11 pm linkquote
Swiss - as I have no oiler in mine - never taken much note.
I have the BGM.
Was unaware that there was an order...
Can you post link or pic to proper order?
Thanks!
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:38 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:38 pm linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Swiss - as I have no oiler in mine - never taken much note.
I have the BGM.
Was unaware that there was an order...
Can you post link or pic to proper order?
Thanks!
Thickest metal plate at the bottom. thinner ones above it. As Jack has pointed out. The sip ones are 2mm and 1.5mm.

He's also mentioned 1 of the 3 thin plates has a notched groove as pictured on two of the inner teeth in this photo at 3 and 9 o clock:


That one goes above the thick plate. then the remaining 2 thin plates go above them. As to the purpose of the notches and if there is specific alignment they belong in.. no clue.
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:45 pm

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 3050
Location: London UK
Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:45 pm linkquote
All back on track. Having the thick plate at the bottom increases clearance for the lever. This will be better.

Your brass (bronze/who knows) thrust washer is looking like it was running dry. Fixing the plunger oil way more important than first thought.
The other metal thrust washer should be as thin as possible, while being completely flat and smooth. I buy them in bulk and change them what feels like too often.

The notched plate I have heard called the spring plate. Depending on who made it, I would be pretty sure the springiness is highly variable.
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:56 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3476
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:56 pm linkquote
Got the p2 back into the Stella frame after replacing the oiler cog with new and correct plate order.

Old worn cog - 3.39mm
New piaggio cog - 3.69mm

Old gap - 0.59mm
New gap - 0.65mm

Old gap+cog - 3.98mm
New gap+cog - 4.34mm
Difference - 0.32mm (more than half the gap unable to be utilized previously.. which translated to clutch that couldn't disengage cause I needed another 50% of lever pull that was impossible to get)

Got new thrust washers today so tomorrow I'll replace the bgm tuned Stella clutch with new and fix some worn wiring so that one is ready to go back into it's frame whenever I feel like it.

But for now I was enjoying the p2 engine which runs great with no clutch issues anymore. Bonus.. adjusted clutch cable so much trying to fix it that now I know how to set up the clutch cable easily and fast.

The clutch lid oil guide fix also seems to have worked cause it no longer squeaks when the lever is pulled, nor does it grind.

But I do have a minor new issue related to pulling cables on and off engine so much. Gear shifter cables are fraying and the right one outside most hole in the shifter box has worn bunched up fray just at the adjuster screw seat so I believe that frayed hang nail is catching on the adjuster nut when I down shift and causes the cable to get stuck. Cause my problem is that I can up shift easy and smooth, but down shifting is nearly impossible.

Time to order some new inners and make sure I solder them at the cut next time.

Thanks Jack for being eagle eyed with the rounded cog from a photo and having that obscure knowledge ready at hand!


New piaggio oiler cog. No more rounded teeth and much thicker gear.

  DoubleGood Vespa Design  

All Content Copyright 2005-2021 by Modern Vespa. All Rights Reserved.

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

Shop on Amazon Smile with Modern Vespa

[ Time: 0.1358s ][ Queries: 7 (0.1134s) ][ Debug on ][ 209 ][ Thing One ]