Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:53 pm linkquote
Gents -

I fear asking this, but you fellows seem to have a good grasp of "authentic" and I'd love to solicit thoughts on these two 150cc vehicles (and I'm happy to send more pics of certain areas of the bikes that could inform opinions if you needed them)...

I was posted to the US Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan, and while there purchased and shipped these two home to the USA. The orange is a 1962 VBB with 8" wheels and the silver is a 1977 Sprint 150 with 10" wheels.

The work was done at a very small shop (that I visited frequently) in-town with very small production, catering mainly to the European and western diplomatic staffs posted there. The shop completed a bike or two a month with a staff of 5-6 guys (most had worked at the Piaggio plant in Pakistan before it closed a decade or two before) with each bike taking 2-3 months to restore.

Based on the premise that not all non-American/non-European outfits are scams, I'm really interested to get you all's take on the overall quality, workmanship, and keeping-true-to-Vespa standards of these two machines. What are the tell-tale signs of "bodge" work that I should be looking for?

Welcome any and all thoughtful comments... Thanks! I'm happy to keep adding pics of suspect areas if that helps.









Last edited by theupdegraffs on Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm

Addicted
85 Vepsa PX150E with sidecar, 80 P200 with sidecar, 96 Goldwing with Hannigan Sidecar, LR87aj5, LR91aj3
Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 573
Location: Central Washington State
 
Addicted
85 Vepsa PX150E with sidecar, 80 P200 with sidecar, 96 Goldwing with Hannigan Sidecar, LR87aj5, LR91aj3
Joined: 11 Oct 2011
Posts: 573
Location: Central Washington State
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:22 pm linkquote
First off Welcome aboard!

My first question is do you like the rigs, do you enjoy them as they are? Have you had a great ride or two?

If you answered yes to all three then ride and enjoy.

I'll leave it to others to give their insights.






PS I grew up over in Arlington and had my first of many scooters there in the Fifties.
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:25 pm

Hooked
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 410
Location: Philadelphia
 
Hooked
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 410
Location: Philadelphia
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:25 pm linkquote
They are pretty looking! I'm gonna have to get a second one I think so I can have one shiny and one rust bucket.


Check under the gas tank for welds that shouldn't be there.

Run a magnet along the metal to look for bondo build up. Magnets won't stick where there's a bunch of bondo.
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:35 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:35 pm linkquote
Thanks, gents. Yep, magnet works everywhere but on the head/top of steering column around the headlight (whatever the name of that part is).

As far as welds around the gas tank, that's something I'd had to see up from under the machines?
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3276
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3276
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:37 pm linkquote
Pretty interesting, didn't know there was apiaggio factory in Pakistan. I wonder what the quirky Pakistan specific features of their Vespas were. It seems each region had it's own slight differences to the same models. Wondering if anyone knows more about the uniqueness of Vespas coming out of there.

Either way I'm curious to see what people have to say and am following. On first uneducated glance they look accurate but more pics including engines and closer inspection would give better answers. Share photos of speedos, brake pedals, engine, frame number, engine number, etc.
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:44 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:44 pm linkquote
A few pics coming...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:45 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:45 pm linkquote
Another...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:46 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:46 pm linkquote
Exhaust...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:48 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:48 pm linkquote
Head...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:49 pm linkquote
Brake...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:50 pm

Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
 
Member
1962 Vespa VBB
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 10
Location: Washington, DC
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:50 pm linkquote
Pedal...



Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:59 pm

Addicted
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 732
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
 
Addicted
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 732
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:59 pm linkquote
Greetings:

If a piece of trim, a pedal or a mirror deviate from Vespa Canon, so what? There are probably less than 100 people in the world who could tell what's wrong. Stay away from those people.

Meanwhile, they are beautiful, clean in every detail, and a pleasure to contemplate. I presume they are also functional. I would be proud to own either one. I will PM you my address
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:49 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9162
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9162
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:49 pm linkquote
well, the sprint appears to have a P motor so at least you've got that going for you.

both of the front brake cables look janky.

those switch housings are... uhhh.... something...

the lever screws look awful, which i'd suspect sloppy action on them and the controls. and thus crap ass cables.

the floor board is already showing cracking.

seats and trim look hammered ass.

the pic of the exhaust showing just that little bit of floorboard and tunnel looks, less than ideal. and that exhaust is kinda junky.

but, the whole thing hinges on what you can't see. and if you've not owned one and worked on it then you'll not know what is and isn't correct.

at minimum i'd pull the tank to have a look see inside.

-g
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:19 pm

Addicted
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 732
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
 
Addicted
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 Malossi 187 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 732
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:19 pm linkquote
Greetings:

Do not let curmudgeonly Greasy125 kill de buzz, mang. He's probably right, mind you, as he's forgotten more Vespa lore than I'll ever know, but if they run and give you pleasure, enjoy them. You can always address the issues down the road.
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:13 pm

Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 176
Location: Switzerland
 
Hooked
PX
Joined: 07 Feb 2016
Posts: 176
Location: Switzerland
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:13 pm linkquote
I personally could never enjoy them as Id always be wondering what was underneath everything and how it was built.
Just my paranoia maybe?
But I guess its like most in the forum, if you know what you have in the beginning thats always a better starting point...
Good Luck and I hope you have fun either way...
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:52 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8250
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8250
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:52 pm linkquote
If they were shooting for 'looks like new', gonna be Bondo on it, it's gonna crack. If the body is sound and rust never a big problem, you're likely safe if the brakes work right. They'd work better with the cables set up right. But the Piaggio factory was in India, they may have worked there and all original cables supplied and installed to spec. Replacements usually must be 'tweaked', your outers are too long.

Only other thing to know and look for signs. The frames and hardware likely have umpteen kilometers, I mean a LOT! They tend to run them forever before giving them up, and if most attention is paid to appearance and little to structural integrity, possible either hidden collision /alignment issues or rust cancer, both can just be covered up.

Your P motor is OK replacement, hope they knew what they were doing on both.

Your ratty muffler bothers me not, I would rock the $hit out of that. Be a shame NOT to if you have no need for speed.

2 cents, and welcome.
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:16 am

Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1719
Location: UK (South East)
 
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1719
Location: UK (South East)
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:16 am linkquote
I think a lot depends upon what kind of life they had in Pakistan before they were restored. The climate varies greatly, from hot/dry/arid to monsoon and high humidity. In many cases, they had a hard life in that part of the world, so accidents and exposure to the elements would have meant the frames could have been battered and possibly corroded in places. This can lead to areas of bodywork being patched, bits cut out/new bits welded in, body filler etc. This being the case, quality of body parts and restoration skills come into question.

You'll never know what's under the paint until you look deeper. Like others have said, evidence of joins/welds under the tank and anywhere along the central spine/tunnel will be telling.
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:51 am

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2864
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2864
Location: London UK
Fri Jan 15, 2021 12:51 am linkquote
One thing that I struggle to get past with Bodges, is how many miles they might have done. A 1962 scooter from Asia could have done 100,000 miles easy. Maybe twice that. Or more! An Asian car will typically do 500,000 miles before it is considered old but still ok. And if still starts is still driven.
Even with minimal accident damage, all new parts and shiny paint the metal will be structurally tired. Fine for looking at or Sunday ride at 30mph but nothing more.
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:07 pm

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4060
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4060
Location: That bushfire place
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:07 pm linkquote
Gotta love that tight turning circle!
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:23 pm

Addicted
A box of parts
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 711
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Addicted
A box of parts
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 711
Location: San Francisco, CA
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:23 pm linkquote
This is so weird. They reshaped the tail section. These bikes don't have anything close to the shape of the stamped metal.

Hard to find a photo of a tail section of a sprint or VBB without a taillight or plate, but here's one where you can see. They have a heavy concave lip where the tail goes from curved to square, and the square section looks too short.

No clue how they did this. It either has the whole contour made out of body filler, or it's been hammered into that shape.









⬆️    About 4 months elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Fri May 21, 2021 12:36 pm

Lurker
1963 VBB 150cc
Joined: 21 May 2021
Posts: 1
Location: Washington, D.C.
 
Lurker
1963 VBB 150cc
Joined: 21 May 2021
Posts: 1
Location: Washington, D.C.
Fri May 21, 2021 12:36 pm linkquote
Nice!
They are both beautiful! Question - did you successfully title them in DC/VA or are you not planning to? If so, can you tell me how you did it?? Thanks!
Sat May 22, 2021 8:13 am

Hooked
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 410
Location: Philadelphia
 
Hooked
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 410
Location: Philadelphia
Sat May 22, 2021 8:13 am linkquote
hjo wrote:
This is so weird. They reshaped the tail section. These bikes don't have anything close to the shape of the stamped metal.

Hard to find a photo of a tail section of a sprint or VBB without a taillight or plate, but here's one where you can see. They have a heavy concave lip where the tail goes from curved to square, and the square section looks too short.

No clue how they did this. It either has the whole contour made out of body filler, or it's been hammered into that shape.
Oh wow I totally missed that.

That is odd.
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