Modern Vespa

Well look what landed in my garage this weekend! It's a 1962 Allstate. I plan on keeping this bike so I'm going to be taking my time (yea right) and getting it back on the road. I happen to be born in 62, and I do like the curves, so I couldn't resist. Rolling on 8s is going to be interesting.

The last owner was kind enough to deliver it to my door. She owned it for 20 years and never registered it, the rebel! Ha! She told me she got pulled over and told the cop it was 49cc. I love it!

I plan on cleaning up the body, which means remove any rust, then rubbing compound and wax. I'm going to want more power, but to start out with I'm just going to change the gear oil, fuel line, clean the carb and see if it'll start. Interesting three speed. The front is a pogo stick! And I'm going to disassemble/reassemble, repairing and/or replacing and greasing as needed. I'm fixing this machine up to be a daily rider, not a museum piece. No new paint (maybe the rims).

All the numbers match a 1962. Well, not quite. The frame VA12T says it's a 63 but the Sears tag says it's a 62 and so does the engine number.

And the "VIN" is actually the engine number. So I've gotta call the DMV and see if that'll be hard to rectify. If it is, Vermont plate here I come before getting the Oregon plate.

And I cannot register it as vintage until the year 2024. I guess here in Oregon you've got to be as old as dirt to be vintage. Go figure.

I'm so excited!!!! On with the pictures!

sweet find, congratulations!

8)

Nice colour!

Compound and polish, and you'll not believe your eyes!

I had an old 1963 Allstate in my back garage for over 35 years. Recently, I dug it out and restored it mechanically. My first concern was fixing the front end. I replaced the original spring with a Stoffi spring and that improved the ride immensely. Then, I went and added the damper. I used my original fork and modified it. What I did is described below. I also added a 150 cc top end and a SIP Road 2 muffler. The fuel system was totally upgraded as well with a new 20/20 carburetor, drilled air filter, fuel tank, fuel tap, and fuel line. Other items replaced were the rear shock, points, condenser, speedo cable, gear shift cables, and miscellaneous rubber items. I replaced the old tires with SIP 8" tubeless tires. The bike was re-jetted and runs great now. Several other posting that may help you are listed below as well.

Restore that beautiful '62 Allstate and enjoy the ride. It is a classic for sure.

Allstate Front Fork Modification - Summary and Cost Estimate

1963 Allstate 150 cc Upgrade

1963 Allstate Restoration Update

Thanks SD, Auntie, and DD! And RB, thank you for the links. Just what I was looking for!

That scooter looks fantastic! I got the same blue Allstate, except mine's been repainted (the same color, and has a few "go fast" and "go stop" parts on it. Mine's registered as a 1961 and has a 1961 Oregon licence plate.

Why not just register it as a "special interest" vehicle? Find an old 1962 Oregon motorcycle plate, take it to DMV, and you can transfer that plate onto your Allstate.

Thanks WhoDat! That's a great idea. I'll start hunting around for the 62 M plate.

Speaking of the DMV, I called them today and they said that whoever inspects the bike has the power to change the VIN or assign a VIN, so I think I can get the engine number VIN swapped out for the chassis number VIN.

Oh man that is awesome! beautiful scoot and still in great condition!

I'd really recommend that you use the frame number (if you have one still) on the title instead of the engine number. If someone were ever to swap the engine out, there could be some difficulties later on.

It's not too difficult to convince the Oregon DMV to change the title around a smidge. I just bring in enough documentation to prove to them that I'm right, and they have always gone with it. I've had them switch the years around of a few of my scoots so that it's more accurate. I just make sure I play by their rules...but the trick is to know their rules better than they do.

Expect to pay (invest) a fair amount into a nicer 1962 plate. I think I paid about $80 for mine about 8-10 years ago. I have 3 different scoots that I've reactivated old plates that I've found. The scoots look much better with an proper vintage plate!

I'm with you on this! I think I can state the case plainly enough, and the frame or chassis number is still in great shape. I mean, the bike was put in a system before the VIN system was in place, so they used engine numbers. Not appropriate today.

And I love the idea of getting a plate to match the year of the scooter! Thanks for planting the seed!

Thats a great find mate

Thanks Swiss and Ebeth! It's going to be fun. I can't wait to polish it up and get it running!

Just make sure that you bring in documentation about where the engine # is located and the frame # is located. Also bring in documentation that your scooter (of course all scooters) are supposed to use the frame # on the title. I know it sounds obvious to both you and I, but you have to play by their rules. It's very similar to going to court. For instance...You just can't tell the judge that you were robbing a bank because God wanted you to. You would actually want to provide the court system with a letter signed by the Almighty himself to prove that was the case.

You can find documentation on scooterhelp.com, an old Scooter Works catalog (or maybe website now), maybe an old SIP catalog as well.

it sure does, now wheres the big grind smile

Dude - that is a killer find.
Looks like Oregon also has a VIN verification process - ($7 fee...).
Suspect you are already fully in the loop on that but here is the info if helpful.
https://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/pages/vehicle/vininspection.aspx
and special forms:
https://www.oregon.gov/odot/forms/dmv/11.pdf

I had luck with same process in CA - the guys who inspect VINS mostly have to look at mid 80's salvage title Honda Accords and the like - so they tend to be very helpful when dealing with such a cool/unique vehicle.
If like Cali - there is only one person per office who is certified to do the inspection - so a little personal interaction can go a long way.
In my case, I was able to speak to the officer on the phone - he actually called me back after I left a message.
Allowed me to figure out what he wanted for info/paper work before my appointment and made it more personal when I arrived.

Just one man's $.02.
Best of luck on this one.
Such a sweet ride.

Here are a few more points regarding my '63 Allstate that are most likely relevant to your new '62 Allstate. My final jetting that is working well with the 150 cc upgrade and SIP Road 2 muffler is as follows:

Main stack 140-BE2-102
Low idle jet 40-130

The one restoration I did not do but still plan to do is replacing those 56 year-old engine oil seals. That would include replacing any worn parts within the engine as well. But, the bike did start with two kicks after 35 years of storage and is running great. Since my 2005 PX150 is now my go to ride, the engine restoration has been pushed back to a later time. In your case, I would highly recommend your rebuilding the engine in that '62 Allstate in addition to the front fork modifications and other enhancements I mentioned. Then you can ride that beautiful '62 Allstate with confidence and pride.

Lucky Ducky, ya done good! Looking forward to your progress and lots of pics with clear explanations of your problems/solutions as usual. Now you will probably be on the hunt for one of these:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-VESPA-SPEEDOMETER-90-KMPH-VNA-VNB-BLACK-POINTER-VP259/271304320842

OK, I know it's an eBay repop straight from India, but they're cheap, generally work and Good Luck finding an original . You can also find MPH versions available.

Thanks for the DMV tips Whodat and Charlieman. I've got the original manual which shows placement of the body and engine number. And I'll print out the forms. I've got a relationship with the inspector so it'll go smooth. Now to find a cool 62 plate! Not having any success yet.

Thanks for the info Voodoo! And the data on your rebuild RB. It's very much appreciate.

So I couldn't help myself and decided to do something with the stand. I just cleaned it up with Krud Kutter, steel wool, and a wire brush. Came out pretty good. Now I've got to get the tab welded back on. Maybe it's time to invest in a welding machine and learn how to weld!

Great work and it looks like you herd is growing!

Ha! Thanks Rowdy. I'm waiting for the Oregon Title to come in on the White P200, then it's up for sale. And I'm putting the 2008 GTS-250 up for sale also. I haven't ridden it in 6 months. So that'll leave me the Burgundy P200 and the Blue 62.

I'd like to stick with my two in the 1/2 car garage at one time. So I'll have one when you come to visit the Oregon Coast!

Highly encourage the welder.
You can just fix so much damn stuff.
A flux core machine is the way to go - if you can solder - you can weld with it (with a little practice).
Great to learn on - but also capable of real deal welds so own it for a lifetime.
Early work will be ugly - but a few youtube videos in and you will start making the nice "stacked dimes" look.
You can weld indoor or out with flux core.
No fancy gas tanks needed - until you wanna add them for making super pretty "mig" welds.
Big box stores carry the Lincoln - I have one and its pretty awesome.
Hobart is also a top brand - but their 120V wire machine won't do aluminum for when you graduate to that.
Stick with the 120V - there is really nothing on a Vespa that is too thick for it to handle - and you don't need a 220 outlet to use.
Get the highest amp version of the 120 you can afford - allows longer welding on thicker material.
Get a whack of different thickness bar and strap at the store when you buy the machine, and practice on it to figure out settings and technique.
Once you start - you'll be hooked.
One note. Careful when welding to assemble the parts right side up - but if you screw it up - you will be able to discover just how strong you have succeeded in making your welds. Don't ask me how I know...

Dude awesome scoot!

Thanks Hibbert, and thanks Charlieman for pushing me over the edge on getting a welder! We'll see how it goes in a few days.

So I went to the DMV today! Loaded the scooter in the van. I was armed with the original manual and called before I went down, ensuring that the VIN inspector can change the VIN from the engine number to the chassis number.

Now, to explain.... The DMV is a two person operation, and I know both tellers because they live in the same small town I do. The person I got was the same from a month ago when I registered the White P200 with a Vermont registration.

She at first said it's got to be the number on the old title. I explained that back in the late 50s/early 60s they used the engine number as a tracking number, not the body or chassis number. And that this was before the VIN system was in place. Then I showed her the original manual, Page 2 that shows where the numbers are located on the scooter.

She said it wasn't possible. Now I used the "The person on the phone said whoever inspects the VIN can make the switch", essentially enabling her to take the next step, and she did. She physically looked at both numbers on the scooter. I had a super bright flashlight ready to make this easy.

Next, she called her manager and I got to hear her side of the conversation, which she parroted what I told her. Then she said in the phone, which form? OK, thanks! She said this was the first time she's done this, and she's worked there a looonnngggg time.

SCORE - I now have a titled and registered 1962 scooter with the body or chassis number as the VIN! A little hickup - I got home and noticed the VIN was incorrect! It was missing a digit. I should've checked before I left the DMV. I called the DMV and explained the situation. The agent that helped me originally called me back and looked everything over. Fortunately the VIN exchange form had the correct VIN, just not the Title and Registration forms. So she fixed it and I can swing in tomorrow and she'll have the corrected registration waiting for me. No waiting in line. Life in a small town!

A big thank you to Whodat and Charlieman for arming me with info pertaining to the DMV. Without having the original manual and the story of the VIN system, I don't know if she would've taken the next step.

I'm currently taking some intro welding courses at the local college just for kicks. The instructor is an old hand who can weld upside down with his eyes closed (no joke). As a demonstration one day, he pulled out a mig welder and laid down two beads. They both looked perfect, with that beautiful stacked dimes look you mention. The difference was that on the first weld he had the work angle off by a few degrees, and the voltage maybe 1V too low for the wire speed. Given the very minor differences in inputs, and that they both looked *perfect*, that first weld was remarkably weaker than the second! (He put them in a press and fail-tested them.)

To be clear, I'm not meaning to be preachy at all. I also very much subscribe to the "figure it out myself" way! I'm just mentioning this as a word of caution because it was a very striking (scary!) demonstration. If any doubt on structural / safety-critical welds, it would be a good idea to have it checked over, even if it looks good. Anyways, sounds like you've got it figured out, so ride on!!

Thanks for the info on welding Berto - I've been binging youtube welding info and will take your advice seriously. Lots of ways to screw it up and create an unsafe weld.

Well, I have deviated from the plan of:

1) Get it running
2) Make it safe
3) Make it pretty

I started with #3! Ha. Actually, I wanted to see how the paint was going to clean up so I cleaned up then clay bar'd the engine cowl. Meh. So I broke out the Meguires compound. It made a pretty good improvement. Not as noticeable as it was on burgundy paint, but noticable. Then I put the #7 on it and let it soak in. It's still soaking so I'll get a picture of it after I buff it out. And I put 303 Protectant on the original white rubber, letting that soak in.

Then I washed the scooter and changed the gear oil. No gas in the oil, metal flakes, etc., so that's good. The oil looked pretty good.

I left the Meguiars #7 overnight and there was very little to buff off. It did soak in pretty well, or evaporate, or both. I'm going to do the same thing again tomorrow for another 24 hours and see if the paint continues to soak it up.

I took off the seat and rack and cleaned up the nuts and bolts. The threads were pretty chewed up. Getting back on track to get it running.

Dude - I am taking great joy in watching her clean up.
DMV moves are classic.
It's such a knife edge situation.
At any juncture - you coulda either accepted "no", or been sent back to start without collecting...
Nice job winning her over - she coulda sunk you.
Classic outcome - wrong VIN - made me laugh.
Probably just trying to keep straight face/hide excitement of getting your outcome!
Who is gonna look at the actual number at that point?!
That must have been a moment when you got home and were reviewing.
Caused a good laugh when I read.
Thanks for sharing.

Re welding Berto's points are spot on.
Inside the door of your welder is some info on settings for situation.
That is a key information and pretty damn accurate in my experience.

The angle issue Berto describes is likely due to connecting the weld well to one of the two pieces of metal. Angle of gun needs to be split between them.

One thing i found regarding good results.
At first - I struggled to control the tip nicely - it is 8-12" away from the hand so tough to be perfect.
Saw a good ole' boy video where he showed how he liked to keep the gun resting on his finger of opposite hand - kinda remarkably close to the weld tip.
That made a huge difference in being able to hold the proper angle for me.
Otherwise - its like trying to paint with a long stick.

Grab some scraps - practice is key.
Things that helped me improve:
- set your work so that the weld line is slightly uphill - but just a hair.
- you will be dragging - and the beed is liquid - it will run down hill
- rest the gun on your finger a few inches from the tip - will help you have fine control

I'm certainly not expert - but quality of welds is improving - and its fun as hell.

You're welcome on the DMV tips. I'm glad it went fairly smoothly for you. The only reason I know what I know, is from hard earned trials and errors at my local DMV. Long, long story short, the manager at the local DMV field office got the boot because of his shenanigans he was pulling on me (as well as his coworkers). He was one of the bigger (if not biggest) jerk I've ever met in my life.

OK, there's a collector in Portland that has two 62 plates. BUT, he's a collector and doesn't want to pass one on to me unless I've got something to trade, which I don't. I pleaded my case and sent him a pic of the sweet scooter but he still wouldn't budge. I'll try again in a month or so...

And WhoDat, I'd be interested to see and hear about your Go-fast and Stop-fast mods on your 61!

Well, I'm back on step 1 - Get it running.

I took off the seat and rack, in preparation to pull the tank. Then I looked in the tank. It's rusty in there. I'm probably going to put vinegar in the tank and in a couple of days shake the snot out of it with a couple lbs of nuts and bolts inside, then let it sit for another couple days. Or I might get bold and use something a little quicker. I haven't decided....

While I sat and pondered my indecision, I pulled the carb. It's got a 20/15 and an actual choke, verses a fuel enrichener like the 20/20 or 24/24. It's built into the air filter. Pretty cool.

Anyway, I disassembled the carb and put it into the ultrasonic cleaner, as well as the air filter. It's awaiting reassembly.

The other thing I ran into is the air box cover. It had been painted over and looked pretty crappy, paint peeling and all. So I threw it into the ultrasonic cleaner, and when I pulled it out and proceeded to rinse it with hot water, the paint flaked off big time. I used a nylon brush and scrubbed most of the paint off. At some point it had been painted red, yellow, and black. Trippy.

Does anybody know what color it should be? also the engine shroud is rust colored Should it be the same color as the carb box? Any info you can provide will be helpful. Thanks!

I've bought all my vintage Oregon plates off of ebay, so make sure you check there as well. As much as the ebay seller wanted for the plate, it was much cheaper than buying them locally off of craigslist. Some of the plates I searched for took about a year to find, so you might have to play the waiting game. Also, when you find a plate, call the DMV before you buy it and give them the number to look up. They can tell you if indeed can use that plate number.

My Allstate (10" conversion) has a stock P200 engine and a semi-hydro Grimeca disc. Those two items are my go to secret weapon to reliable highway commuting on all my Vespa scooters. But shoosh...it's a secret, so don't tell anyone.

Ohh, good tip! Thanks. I'll just keep an eye out... And your secret is safe with me!

So I took a look in the tank. Surprise, surprise, it's a little rusty in there. So I pulled the tap and put an old tap in. Then filled it up with a couple of gallons of vinegar and a bunch of nuts and bolts. Now it's soaking for a couple of days. I'll shake it up every time I walk by.

Speaking of fuel taps. This thing has a sediment bowl - full of sediment! and the fuel line is rock hard. I'm debating on replacing it with a new fuel tap. I've got it soaking in vinegar also. The inlet looks rusty and crusty.

The body looks in good shape underneath the tank. And my list of what I need to buy is growing.

So I drained the tank and it did - pretty good. But then I decided to look at the top of the tank through the bottom. Yikes! So I filtered the rusty vinegar, sealed up the tank filler area, flipped the tank upside down, and filled it up with vinegar, and the nuts & bolts. A couple more days and it should be golden!

I also removed the left side cowl storage compartment. I tapped out a few dings in the cowl and now can clean it all up.

And I've got a big order ready to place of miscellaneous stuff....

Looks like its coming alone great. Like the way you bring back a scooter to close as original as possible.

Can't wait to see the final results!

Actually, not great to weld indoors with flux-core wire. It creates a lot of smoke and mess. The purpose of the flux-core is so that you don't need gas, you can weld outdoors without worrying about the wind blowing away your gas and fucking up your welds.

It also depends on the type of metal you're welding. Flux-core is not good for sheet metal you want to paint. Yes, people do it, but not best option.

Not automatic is 100% correct. Your better off spending just a bit more money and buying a welder with the ability to use a regulator and a gas. Welds are much nicer and cleaner....and you can weld inside...so during the snow months you can still fabricate. Scott

One of my friend's brought his brand new welder up to my place to test it out. He was using inner shield wire. I laid down a quick weld bead, and then told him to not ever bring it on my property again. Inner shield has its place, but it's for welding outdoors in the wind as far as I'm concerned.