Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:52:01 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6985
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6985
Location: So Cal
Sun, 20 Sep 2020 21:52:01 +0000 quote
Nice Scott... getting there.

Managed to squeeze 72mph out of old yeller (on 8's) on a slight downhill.

It's not as hairy as it sounds on 8's if the suspension and tires are good.
OP
Sun, 20 Sep 2020 22:58:15 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
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Location: Florence, OR
Sun, 20 Sep 2020 22:58:15 +0000 quote
I love it!

And, of course, when I split the cases to replace seals, bearings, shift cross, etc, I'll open up the intake and match it with the carb. Right now it's a little dinky hole.

Then the tuning starts all over again! But for now - I'm gonna ride, baby, ride...
Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:48:31 +0000

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
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Ossessionato
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Sun, 20 Sep 2020 23:48:31 +0000 quote
Scott I tried the 3-4 turns out today and turned inward until the revs raised and had to turn the idle way in or it was just revving too low before I could start turning inward, its going to take me another shot at it because I ended up right where I started. I did find going from the 118 main down to the 116 really cleaned up the throttle, felt good, even my 1-2nd gear shifting felt better.

Just curious what you're referring to a half throttle flat spot , that is after getting in top gear which I think you had said its a 3 speed right?
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 05:48:46 +0000

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 05:48:46 +0000 quote
With a BE5 it is unlikely there is a significant flat spot at 1/2 but maybe more like 1/3? If it is more like 1/2 there is an issue which isn't the pilot jet.

What are all the jets in the carb? And what size main jet started to splutter at WOT?

Important to get this right. Apart from not going well or being comfortable to ride, poor jetting increases wear.
OP
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:32:22 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 16:32:22 +0000 quote
Jack221 wrote:
With a BE5 it is unlikely there is a significant flat spot at 1/2 but maybe more like 1/3? If it is more like 1/2 there is an issue which isn't the pilot jet.

What are all the jets in the carb? And what size main jet started to splutter at WOT?

Important to get this right. Apart from not going well or being comfortable to ride, poor jetting increases wear.
Thanks Jack. Currently there is

38-120 Pilot
120/BE5/109

And I consulted my "notes", or lack of them, and don't know what I started with to get the splutter at WOT. And it was probably more like at 1/3, cause I'm constantly varying the throttle at this stage of the game.

I'll start over and drop in a 116 or 118 to get some splutter at WOT and walk it down from there.

Thanks again!
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 17:34:36 +0000

Hooked
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:29:04 +0000
Posts: 415
Location: MA
 
Hooked
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: Sun, 14 Jun 2020 12:29:04 +0000
Posts: 415
Location: MA
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 17:34:36 +0000 quote
Lynnb wrote:
Scott I tried the 3-4 turns out today and turned inward until the revs raised and had to turn the idle way in or it was just revving too low before I could start turning inward, its going to take me another shot at it because I ended up right where I started.
The idle screw does nothing until the tip touches the throttle slide. Then, it becomes quite sensitive. You should be able to feel the slightly increased resistance when the initial contact is made. Alternatively, if you take the carb cover and air filter off, you can watch and see when the idle screw first starts to make the throttle slide move.

Of course, it could be your mixture screw ended up in the same place because it was properly adjusted all along.
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 20:03:21 +0000

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3874
Location: california
 
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
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Location: california
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 20:03:21 +0000 quote
Scott - my suspicion is as Jack's: the flat spot is likely close to 1/3 throttle.
That's the spot the SI hands off between the main and the idle.
You can witness it if you take the air filter off and look down the throat of the carb.
Slowly opening the throttle - and when it hits that spot - you will see some big drops just starting to leave the main jet brass tube that is poking into the carb throat.

Once you get to the MJ you think is pretty close, you can go after that flat spot with idle jets that are richer. My guess is - you are still a little lean on your idle if it is the 1/3 throttle spot.

Sometimes if you get significantly richer on the idle jet - you will find yourself going back to the main and coming down one more notch - but no necessarily.
When you are done double checking your main - if you still have a flat spot at hand off between the two circuits - consider a richer idle.

Oh - and one other thing. If you are only 1 turn out ish on an idle jet - it may idle okay - but I find this is particularly problematic for causing that hand off flat spot. In this case - change to an idle jet that allows 2ish turns or more seems to help.
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 20:28:04 +0000

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
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Ossessionato
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Mon, 21 Sep 2020 20:28:04 +0000 quote
Kowalski wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
Scott I tried the 3-4 turns out today and turned inward until the revs raised and had to turn the idle way in or it was just revving too low before I could start turning inward, its going to take me another shot at it because I ended up right where I started.
The idle screw does nothing until the tip touches the throttle slide. Then, it becomes quite sensitive. You should be able to feel the slightly increased resistance when the initial contact is made. Alternatively, if you take the carb cover and air filter off, you can watch and see when the idle screw first starts to make the throttle slide move.

Of course, it could be your mixture screw ended up in the same place because it was properly adjusted all along.
You are probably quite right with it being adjusted proper all along, it was bench tested but with me putting on the BGM tour box exhaust I figured it would make some sort of effect. I'm more curious than anything , I want to hear and feel this differnce others are witnessing, know your ride kinda thing.
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:41:31 +0000

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
Mon, 21 Sep 2020 21:41:31 +0000 quote
Small main jet. If the main jet checks out and ends up back at 109, or not much bigger, I think you should try an even richer atomiser. BE4 is the next choice.
Once the inlet is tuned the set up will be more balanced but for now changing the atomiser should help.
With a BE4 the main jet might be one size smaller still. If you do need this richer atomiser, setting the pilot jet should be easier. And as said, anything that ends up under 2 turns, may be correct at idle but will go flat through progression.
OP
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 01:13:49 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 01:13:49 +0000 quote
Thank you MJ, or Master Jack. 8)

I did drop in the BE4 and ran an errand, but didn't have time to put in a large main jet to get it to splutter at WOT and work my way down. It was a short errand. Hopefully tomorrow.

I marked the throttle so I could tell what was 0, 1/4, 1/2 and WOT. That'll help with identifying where the hiccup is, if there will be a hiccup....
This should help to identify where any roughness is in the throttle...
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 01:33:48 +0000

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:40:08 +0000
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Ossessionato
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Tue, 22 Sep 2020 01:33:48 +0000 quote
Scott good idea marking the throttle , I've done this in the past working on a fuel map on my efi bike.
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 06:51:28 +0000

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 06:51:28 +0000 quote
Good you had a BE4 handy. It should work better. Once the main jet is re done, the pilot jet will be easier to set.

I mark the throttle with tippex. Easy to get off when you're done.

Need to get the brake lever screw fixed. Left loose like that they damage the casting.
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:52:10 +0000

Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 03:32:52 +0000
Posts: 974
Location: MN
 
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 03:32:52 +0000
Posts: 974
Location: MN
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 18:52:10 +0000 quote
qascooter wrote:
So Kimono - I pulled over and turned on the GPS cause I could feel a fast run coming up. I'm such a sucker for being double-dog dared!
Just saw this, qa.....

R E S P E C T!!!!!!!!

You took the dare and then some. Bet it was a thrill 8)
Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:37:30 +0000

Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 03:32:52 +0000
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Location: MN
 
Addicted
'66 Super 150
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Tue, 22 Sep 2020 23:37:30 +0000 quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Managed to squeeze 72mph out of old yeller (on 8's) on a slight downhill.

It's not as hairy as it sounds on 8's if the suspension and tires are good.
Um, SoCalGuy. Not sure if I respect your 74 on 8's or just think you are a PSYCHO!!!!!

Clearly my suspension and tires are waaaaay subpar.

But congrats on the sheer madness.....
OP
Thu, 01 Oct 2020 17:31:41 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Thu, 01 Oct 2020 17:31:41 +0000 quote
So I had a great Monday and Tuesday playing with jetting.

I upped the main jet to 115 and got the WOT stutter. That was with 120/BE4/

I went down to a 108 MJ because the 105 plug chop was pretty nice, and the 110 plug chop was pretty dark. BUT I'm still having issues with stuttering around 1/4 throttle and various idle jets. A 38-120 is in there currently

So, for fun, I put in a BE5 atomizer, and it felt better down low, but still wasn't getting rid of the 1/4 throttle stutter - better, but not gone. So I put in the BE3 atomizer. Much better at 1/4 throttle again! But not totally gone, so today I'm going to go richer with the idle jet.

When I go on a grocery store run today, I'll try the 45-140, one step richer. The next idle jet I have is a 48-140, which is a few steps richer, so I'm hoping the 45-140 does the trick.

It's totally usable at this stage to just run around with, but I want the down low stutter gone, cause let's face it, that's where you're usually at in traffic. It feels like I'm on the right track. Does anybody have any suggestions?


On another note of interest, Chris came over on Tuesday and brought Rocket, his 1964 Allstate, and we took off the back hub to see what was going on with his non-existent, or I should say, non-consistent brakes. There was a lot of oil in there, so everything got a fairly good cleaning, including the wheel well and the back side of the engine. 1/2" of grime on the swing arm, a blob for the valve cover breather, etc.

It looks like the seal can be replaced from the outside, which is cool, cause that'll be next if it's oily in a short period of time. At least we could see what was happening.

Then we went riding around on Ruby, the P200 and B-62, for another jetting run. Stopped at Los Amigos for a couple burritos, and then a ride to the Cleawox lake, the total summer camp lake, complete with swim platform and canoe rentals.

It was fun to see how 177 pulled against the P200. We switched off bikes back and forth for the whole ride. A great day indeed.

Oh, and while we were picking up burritos, a guy started telling us about riding scooters in Chicago in 1970 for the police! It was his cop bike. No radios, but they would do crowd control, and practice riding skills in some stadium up and down the stairs, and on the ice on the field. They'd ride nose to tail and literally push the crowds back with their scooters. He sheepishly said, "you couldn't get away with that today.". But you should've seen his eyes twinkle while he was telling us the stories.

He also said they had Vespas and Lambrettas. I asked him what he liked. He said the Vespas hands down because they never broke down and the Lammys would break down more than the Vespas. So there you have it!
Rocket's hub, a 1964 Allstate, all cleaned up and ready to reinstall brakes, etc.
Chris, Ruby, and B-62 at the beach.
Chris, Ruby, and B-62 at Cleawox lake.
Thu, 01 Oct 2020 19:15:43 +0000

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
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Ossessionato
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Thu, 01 Oct 2020 19:15:43 +0000 quote
Scott I have no suggestions on the carb jetting , it's interesting how the BE5 made the down low better , the 105 certainly would do like the right mj but the down low seems to be an issue , perhaps the overlap?
Love the pics of the bikes.
Thu, 01 Oct 2020 22:03:52 +0000

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 05:16:54 +0000
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Location: London UK
Thu, 01 Oct 2020 22:03:52 +0000 quote
You need to be sure if it's stutter or splutter. When lean it coughs and when rich it coughs different. I suspect with a 109 main the BE4 is correct and a much richer pilot will fill the gap. Something like 48/120.
Nice day at the seaside. Still time for a few more yet this year.
OP
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 00:55:17 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 00:55:17 +0000 quote
Jack221 wrote:
You need to be sure if it's stutter or splutter. When lean it coughs and when rich it coughs different. I suspect with a 109 main the BE4 is correct and a much richer pilot will fill the gap. Something like 48/120.
Nice day at the seaside. Still time for a few more yet this year.
Thanks Jack - Sometimes I feel like I can tell the difference, other times I feel like I can't tell my ass from a hole in the ground.

I'll put in the BE4 and go way rich with the Idle Jet and see how it does.

Thanks again!
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 01:28:37 +0000

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
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Location: california
 
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Fri, 02 Oct 2020 01:28:37 +0000 quote
Is it the transition point between idle and main or the main's rich/lean u r trying to nail?
OP
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 02:06:10 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
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Location: Florence, OR
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 02:06:10 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Is it the transition point between idle and main or the main's rich/lean u r trying to nail?
Between idle and main. Jack asked the question a while back about what MJ did it splutter with at WOT, and I didn't write it down, so I essentially started over and worked down to the 109, but cannot get the idle to 1/4 throttle cleaned up.

Then I start doubting my senses and what I know, and see a hole and the ground and think, is that your ass or a hole in the ground. OK, maybe not that bad, but you get my drift. What is lean vs rich, Stutter vs splutter, thirsty vs drowning, etc, etc.

I'm going to go back to the BE4/109 and put in the idle jet 45-140, then the 48-140 and compare the difference. And this is all with an AC 120.

Soon Grasshopper will grasp the pebble...
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 04:36:52 +0000

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Location: california
 
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Location: california
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 04:36:52 +0000 quote
Quote:
Then I start doubting my senses and what I know, and see a hole and the ground and think, is that your ass or a hole in the ground. OK, maybe not that bad, but you get my drift. What is lean vs rich, Stutter vs splutter, thirsty vs drowning, etc, etc.
.
Jetting has two modes:
- I'm a genius!
- I have no idea what I'm doing!
If you aren't experiencing that - you aren't trying.

I like to use a second or third indicator to help find my way.
- At super rich - temp is often stubbornly low - gotta thrash to hit 240.
- At rich - it just wont rev out under load. I loose ~1000 RPM
- While chopping a perfectly good plug in half is a pain in the ass - I've found that once a plug has some color on it - you can make that color change fairly quickly.

For plug color - I will make a 3/4-full throttle run on a slight uphill or somewhere that it has to drag some load - and then pull the plug at the top of the hill - often can see change and hint of where I am. If its charcoal - Im rich...

For what its worth - not a terrible idea to have a 120 or two in your bag of tricks. My guess is - you just keep making idle richer and at some point you'll knock that pesky pause out.
OP
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 05:30:52 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 05:30:52 +0000 quote
Ha! Now you're making me laugh - I'm a genius! Wait - I know NOTHING! Hahaha....

Fantastic info, and you just gave me a great tip - I've got the perfect hill just outside my house that I can go WOT for 30 sec's or so to do a plug chop. Once I ride around for a bit first though.

I could actually do this on my way home from whatever "errand" I conger up that needs to be run. And yes, I think a richer idle jet will help with the 0 to 1/4 throttle issue. I feel pretty happy about this. I'm getting very close. Feeling the needle tilt towards the genius side. heh heh.

But you know what's going to happen after I get it just perfect. The engine will get torn down and I'll end up porting the intake a bit, at least to match it to the carb, new shifting cross, seals, bearings, clutch (22 tooth), crank, etc. Then it'll purr.... When the rains come heavy - January or February. There is still time to snatch the stone out of the carb master's hand...
Fri, 02 Oct 2020 05:37:44 +0000

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:50:15 +0000
Posts: 3874
Location: california
 
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Fri, 02 Oct 2020 05:37:44 +0000 quote
Quote:
But you know what's going to happen after I get it just perfect. The engine will get torn down and I'll end up porting the intake a bit, at least to match it to the carb, new shifting cross, seals, bearings, clutch (22 tooth), crank, etc. Then it'll purr.... When the rains come heavy - January or February. There is still time to snatch the stone out of the carb master's hand...
hahahahaha!
uh huh.
⬆️    About 28w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:26:18 +0000

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 06:40:08 +0000
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Ossessionato
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Thu, 15 Apr 2021 19:26:18 +0000 quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Quote:
Then I start doubting my senses and what I know, and see a hole and the ground and think, is that your ass or a hole in the ground. OK, maybe not that bad, but you get my drift. What is lean vs rich, Stutter vs splutter, thirsty vs drowning, etc, etc.
.
Jetting has two modes:
- I'm a genius!
- I have no idea what I'm doing!
If you aren't experiencing that - you aren't trying.

I like to use a second or third indicator to help find my way.
- At super rich - temp is often stubbornly low - gotta thrash to hit 240.
- At rich - it just wont rev out under load. I loose ~1000 RPM
- While chopping a perfectly good plug in half is a pain in the ass - I've found that once a plug has some color on it - you can make that color change fairly quickly.

For plug color - I will make a 3/4-full throttle run on a slight uphill or somewhere that it has to drag some load - and then pull the plug at the top of the hill - often can see change and hint of where I am. If its charcoal - Im rich...

For what its worth - not a terrible idea to have a 120 or two in your bag of tricks. My guess is - you just keep making idle richer and at some point you'll knock that pesky pause out.
This sounds like solid advice.
⬆️    About 8w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
OP
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 05:18:52 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 05:18:52 +0000 quote
New clutch time. Now that B-62 and Rocket had a chance to blast around Florence, with the same upgrades, it's time to up the clutch and also go from 22 tooth to 23 tooth.

I'm branching off the Tale of Two Rebuilds and back to B-62s build because both engines have been built, and are running appropriately enough....

So the game plan all along has been to upgrade from a 6 spring clutch to 7 spring, and to go from a 22 tooth to a 23 tooth. This will drop the revs when I'm getting close to plaid and hopefully feel better all around.

I chose to get an LML clutch with a 22 tooth, and buy the DRT 23 tooth clutch gear, modify the clutch cover and case to handle the larger clutch, and done. Also, the 22 tooth can go into the Stella. Currently it's got a 21 tooth clutch gear.

Well, the best laid plans of mice and men.

Turns out the LML clutch is 48mm thick and the 6 spring original is 46mm thick. I found this out when the clutch cover wouldn't flush up with case. Dangit.

Looks like I'll be calling "The Market" tomorrow to see about a larger clutch cover.
Difference in thickness
23 tooth DRT clutch gear
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 05:47:42 +0000

parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
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parallelogramerist
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Mon, 14 Jun 2021 05:47:42 +0000 quote
qascooter wrote:
New clutch time. Now that B-62 and Rocket had a chance to blast around Florence, with the same upgrades, it's time to up the clutch and also go from 22 tooth to 23 tooth.

I'm branching off the Tale of Two Rebuilds and back to B-62s build because both engines have been built, and are running appropriately enough....

So the game plan all along has been to upgrade from a 6 spring clutch to 7 spring, and to go from a 22 tooth to a 23 tooth. This will drop the revs when I'm getting close to plaid and hopefully feel better all around.

I chose to get an LML clutch with a 22 tooth, and buy the DRT 23 tooth clutch gear, modify the clutch cover and case to handle the larger clutch, and done. Also, the 22 tooth can go into the Stella. Currently it's got a 21 tooth clutch gear.

Well, the best laid plans of mice and men.

Turns out the LML clutch is 48mm thick and the 6 spring original is 46mm thick. I found this out when the clutch cover wouldn't flush up with case. Dangit.

Looks like I'll be calling "The Market" tomorrow to see about a larger clutch cover.
What about a clutch cover spacer?
OP
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:21:26 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 08:21:26 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
What about a clutch cover spacer?
That would work, if it's 2mm or more. Hmmmm...

Thanks WhoDat!
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:28:02 +0000

parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
Posts: 4718

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
Posts: 4718

Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:28:02 +0000 quote
qascooter wrote:
That would work, if it's 2mm or more. Hmmmm...

Thanks WhoDat!
I have a spacer in my shop. I can go measure the thickness of it.
OP
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:49:20 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 13:49:20 +0000 quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I have a spacer in my shop. I can go measure the thickness of it.
That would be AWESOME! Thanks!
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:19:45 +0000

parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
Posts: 4718

 
parallelogramerist
Joined: Mon, 26 Oct 2015 23:20:12 +0000
Posts: 4718

Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:19:45 +0000 quote
qascooter wrote:
That would be AWESOME! Thanks!
It's 2mm thick.
OP
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:55:54 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:55:54 +0000 quote
That's probably perfect WhoDat! PMing you now
Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:53:38 +0000

Molto Verboso
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:32:23 +0000
Posts: 1629
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:32:23 +0000
Posts: 1629
Location: Los Angeles
Fri, 18 Jun 2021 02:53:38 +0000 quote
You're going to love that clutch upgrade , once you get it sorted out.
Might even toss those jetting notes out the window like I did, once your new gearing asks for different throttle.
It's worth it!
OP
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:14:52 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:14:52 +0000 quote
Ray8 wrote:
You're going to love that clutch upgrade , once you get it sorted out.
Might even toss those jetting notes out the window like I did, once your new gearing asks for different throttle.
It's worth it!
Thanks R8! So I pulled the carb to look it over and it turns out I was sucking in some air from the slider spacer cover. I put a 20/15 cover vs the 20/20 that it came with, assuming they were the same. And I plugged the oil hole for good measure, put in the best jetting I had from my notes, and took it out for a run.

The 1/4 throttle issue is almost gone! I know with a little bit of messing with the AF screw, and possibly an idle jet change, I can get rid of the 1/4 throttle issue I've been dealing with! Wooohooo!

And a big thank you to WhoDat, I've got a 2mm spacer for the clutch. I did a test install of it and it fits and clutch works. I'm just waiting for a clutch pressure place with the flat spot on the side from "The Market". I only have solid round ones, and ground my own flat spot, but deemed it too hokey to use, except for test fitting.

And while I wait, I'm going to install the CHT Gauge that ScootnewB bought me Complete with running the wire through the frame. We'll see how that goes...
Open space around the bottom of the slider/spring plate - wrong slider plate.
Clutch cover spacer installed as a test fit! It works!
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:46:29 +0000

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6985
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:01:08 +0000
Posts: 6985
Location: So Cal
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 15:46:29 +0000 quote
Nice detective work! Scoot oughta run much better now.

I need a couple of those cover spacers. Who makes em?
OP
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:51:06 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Sat, 19 Jun 2021 17:51:06 +0000 quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Nice detective work! Scoot oughta run much better now.

I need a couple of those cover spacers. Who makes em?
Thanks SCG - WhoDat sent the spacer to me. You might want to check with him. I also saw one at ScooterMercato...
OP
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 14:57:39 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 14:57:39 +0000 quote
While I'm waiting on a flat sided clutch pressure plate, I figured I'd get the CHT gauge installed. But there isn't anywhere for the wire to come out at the headset.

I thought about through the seal at the speedo bezel, but I also have this bolt hole just below the headset on the column, so I decided to run the wire through there, if possible.

Well, it's possible - not easy - but possible. I ran weed whacker line through the bolt hole to the horncast hole, then used a pair of needle nose pliers to grab the line. Phase 1 complete.

I then fed a thicker weedwhacker line from the horn hole through the tunnel to under the tank. It got caught around the brake line, and it was a bitch to get it untangled. After my arm was all bloody, I finally realized the stamped lip of the tunnel was cutting the crap of my arm and wrist. So I filed that down before I put my hand back in there Phase 2 complete.

Now for the fun part. I cut off the end of the extension wire, and taped it to the thicker weedwhacker line and gently pulled and cajoled through the tunnel and out the horn hole. Phase 4 complete.

This next phase took a while. The heat shrink tubing and tape barely managed, but I put some micro needle nose pliers on the tape sticking out of the screw hole and slowly and gently worked it out of the hole. Phase 5 complete.

Solder, two layers of heat shrink tubing and back in the bolt hole the wire goes. Phase - oh, fuck the phases, moving on.....

I chose to mount it off the headset neck, and fashioned a block of wood to be the mount, then painted it, then attached it. Can anyone guess what it's stuck on with? Hint: It's that miracle 70's material that made tennis shoe soles last longer...

So it's all done - now to get the clutch back together and see what the temp gets up to...

Oh, and there was tragedy during this process. See pics...
Bolt hole with weedwhacker line
Horn hole :)
Here is the thicker line caught around the brake tube.
OK, got it untangled and ready to pull the wire
I took out the rubber grommet to "fit" the connector through with all the other cables, then reinstalled
Success! I got the wire pulled
Tragedy - my coffee elephant cup that I've had forever finally met it's demise.....
Hmmm, maybe something like this?
That'll work!
Another angle...
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:04:36 +0000

Molto Verboso
P125X, P200E
Joined: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 03:34:40 +0000
Posts: 1133
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
P125X, P200E
Joined: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 03:34:40 +0000
Posts: 1133
Location: Fresno, CA
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 16:04:36 +0000 quote
That works... Well Done. You are nothing if not persistent.
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 19:22:03 +0000

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:37:37 +0000
Posts: 9422
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: Tue, 23 Nov 2010 02:37:37 +0000
Posts: 9422
Location: seattle/athens
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 19:22:03 +0000 quote
Very very nice and easy to service too. But your perfect mount made from all natural materials is what caught my eye!
OP
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 23:46:19 +0000

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 15:25:08 +0000
Posts: 4009
Location: Florence, OR
Mon, 21 Jun 2021 23:46:19 +0000 quote
Thanks LuckyBear, and V oodoo. I guess my whittling skills came in handy.

I almost made an aluminum tray that would be held down by the speedo, but I just got the thing working again and didn't want to jinx it...
Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:51:35 +0000

Molto Verboso
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:32:23 +0000
Posts: 1629
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: Sun, 29 Nov 2020 21:32:23 +0000
Posts: 1629
Location: Los Angeles
Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:51:35 +0000 quote
3 quick questions:
Did you drill through that hole to feed the wire through?
Did you use the 24" extension, or do we need the 48?
Does that 14mm receiver replace the plug's crush washer or do you use both?
  DoubleGood Design  

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