Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:08 am

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:08 am linkquote
Do all of the swing arm assembly on your workbench. This includes installing the new sealed bearings, axle. brake shoes, brake drum, etc. Also connect the spring to the suspension spring axle. Then attach the fork to the assembled swing arm. Now slide up and attach the top of the spring to the upper bracket on the fork. Lastly, attach the new damper to the upper bracket which was welded to the fork. Leave the bottom of the damper unattached at this time.

Feed down through the fork the new speedo cable and attach it to the swing arm. Attach the front wheel. The fork can now be in-inserted back into the body and affixed with the upper nut. Make sure all the fork bearings are well lubricated and seat properly.

With the new fork and handle bar installed, remove the bike from the lift and have someone sit on it. They should apply the front brake and push the bike forward with hands on the handle grips. The front end will push down by this action. Another person at the front of the bike can then make sure the pins on the damper are aligned with the notches in the new swing arm. When they are aligned, then the damper can be attached to the swing arm and tightened down. I found this method to be much easier than trying to connect the bottom of the damper while the swing arm is on the bench. Some tension is put on the spring before the pins align and using the weight of the bike and downward pressure makes it rather easy.

When all is done, the front tire should be in perfect alignment with the bike.


Spring attached to swing arm.


Bottom of damper not installed on swing arm.


Damper pin in notch on swing arm as damper is attached to the swing arm. This step is done after the front fork is installed.


Perfect alignment of wheel.

Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:21 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:21 am linkquote
Thanks for the tips RB! I'll be referring to your fork thread summary when ordering parts on Monday! Thanks again! Allstate Front Fork Modification - Summary and Cost Estimate

BTW, RB Prior went through the same thought process many of us have gone through. Replace spring, then upgrade the whole shebang. He posted this earlier in this thread, but it's worth repeating the links!:

Allstate "Pogo Effect" Front End Improvement
Replace VBB Front Fork Spring with Stoffi Spring?
Allstate Front Fork Modification - Summary and Cost Estimate

Last edited by qascooter on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:52 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:52 pm linkquote
Roller
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:45 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Feb 09, 2020 6:45 pm linkquote
Doesn't that just ruin the whole "keep it original" experience for you? I know for two days or more lost while I obsessed over finding the ORIGINAL lower fork bearing dust shield on my 50 special that I so carefully removed and put where I was SURE not to lose it. FINALLY appeared nearby under the big tray that all of the parts are supposed to stay on top of, the sneaky little original thing

I can check if there could be a spare needle in my haystack, but don't hold your breath. That particular one could be as rare as unicorn poo. I recently had to locate a lone 1.8 mm needle for such a case. Idiotic to lose it, I have experience, but just try to forgive yourself and I'll find you a rare lone needle, I can almost certainly do that regardless.


Once I salvaged a couple that are still working fine from old auto U-joint bearing needles that I just had to shorten a little.


neatly bagged ones on the left are from Doc Morgan
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:30 pm

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6105
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 6105
Location: So Cal
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:30 pm linkquote
qascooter wrote:
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
OK this is like some crazy Twilight Zone episode...

Literally the EXACT same thing happened to me last week as I was taking apart the front end of the GL.

Thirty-six needles supposedly dropped out and onto the floor of the garage, and after searching for an hour on my hands and knees with a magnet, I also managed to only find 35 - plus a couple from an old cush repair.

Gets even more bizarre ...

I also called Voodoo, and he's also sending me a spare needle bearing from his stash. What are the odds?

And in case you haven't discovered yet, the needles in the spring retainer bearing and needles in the fork pivot pin are different sizes. Gaaah!





Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:13 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3082

 
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 3082

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:13 pm linkquote
SoCalGuy wrote:
qascooter wrote:
So at the end of the fork there is a couple of races with a ton of little roller bearings. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? Well, while cleaning, I lost just one of those little f$%kers. I looked everywhere, on my hands and knees, with a magnet, etc...

So I thought I found it - then realized it wasn't the same. It's a Cush drive needle bearing I lost a long time ago. Dooohhhh!!!!

So now I've gotta buy a pack of roller bearings, unless my buddy Voodoo has a bucket or two of them laying around....
OK this is like some crazy Twilight Zone episode...
...and here is that Twilight Zone episode. www.youtube.com/watch?v=olPN5L2P-6Y&t=27s
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:54 pm linkquote
Bwahhahahaa - good one WhoDat - The Universe is a very trippy place indeed. Maybe I was channeling you SCG, and just had to drop the bearing, and find one offsize bearing from last year - wait - what does your garage look like?!? Maybe it's an alternative time garage of Florence, Oregon???

One thing in common - our good buddy Voodoo! The TimeMaster Ha!
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:25 pm linkquote
I originally posted in this thread that I got my suspension front pivot pin from Scooter Mercato with the following information:

Suspension front pivot kit $25
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Pivot-Kits-and-Axles/O73677

After thinking about it, this pivot pin will not fit to the FA Italia swing arm. It has the threaded end and it will not work with the newer swing arms that will accommodate the damper. I can't recall where I got the one I used, it may have been part of the front fork I ordered from India and later trashed. I do recall using the new bearings as my old needle bearings fell out when I removed the original pivot pin from the front fork. The closest I found that would work unfortunately is from India, but I think this part would work okay. As I mentioned, I also used the new bearings and pressed them into my front fork. I hope this helps.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/BRAND-NEW-VESPA-FRONT-HUB-PIVOT-PIN-VBB-SPRINT-VLB-RALLY-JR/223784295934?epid=1531927840&hash=item341a955dfe:g:d4EAAOSwcV5d60za

As for the suspension spring axle, I did use a spacer washer and O-ring on each side of the spring attachment (see photo).


Front suspension pin showing the notched end.


Bottom view of the suspension spring axle showing the spacer washer and O-ring on each side of spring attachment/grease fitting part.

Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:10 am

Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P215E, 1965 Allstate 177
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Claremont, CA
 
Enthusiast
1979 Vespa P215E, 1965 Allstate 177
Joined: 19 Jan 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Claremont, CA
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:10 am linkquote
Regarding the leg shield trim, mine ends under the floor rail just like you did.
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:52 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:52 pm linkquote
Thanks RB, and MeMtnBike! I'm leaving the trim alone. I like it tucked in.

So here is the gameplan. Brother T (Voodoo) is sending me down a complete front end from something that takes a damper - or it might be complete, but more complete than what's in my hands currently.

He's also sending down a couple of those Twilight Zone needle bearings that mysteriously disappeared from my garage and ended up on the floor of SoCal's shop floor.

After I get Brother T's package, I'm going to see what I got, and what I need, then place an order with Brother David (ScooterMercato) on what I need to complete this project. Then probably place another order cause there will be something that slips through the cracks of my mind. Even after writing out a list. Haha.

Then I'll weld the tab on the fork, paint said fork, and new swingarm, and put it all back together. And if the stars align, and the universe smiles my way, it'll go together as nicely as RB's.


Pretty nice Original Paint on the fork!


Needle bearing width


Needle bearing length

Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:58 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:58 pm linkquote
Special Delivery
I got a special delivery from Brother T (Voodoo - Thanks man!). A front swing arm that looked usable. Ultimately it doesn't look like it.

The spring and brake pin was a bit mushed by someone banging the crap out of it with a hammer, or I'm assuming it was with a hammer. I filed down the pin so I can get it out, but unfortunately the groove for the brake pin is squashed. I could grind out a new groove, but I think I'm going to just buy a new pin.

Upon closer inspection, there is a crack on the main bearing side of the swing arm. I'd use it if I had to, but I don't, so I'll use the Bajaj one brother T sent me a while ago.

I've got an order placed with ScooterMercato, and when all the parts come in, I'll get to welding, painting and reassemble.


Banged up brake pin


A little triflow to the rescue, and I filed the top of the pin so it'll fit through the swing arm


And an aluminum rod. I'd rather flatten the crap out of the aluminum rod than the brake pin/shock rod


The hairline crack


And on the inside


The Bajaj one cleaned up, sanded down and ready to paint, after I fill all the holes with rags so I don't get paint in them.

Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:15 pm

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:15 pm linkquote
Nice to see your progress.
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:23 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:23 pm linkquote
Lynnb wrote:
Nice to see your progress.
Thanks Lynn - slow, but steady. Naah, just slow....
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4542
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4542
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:15 pm linkquote
but steady.....good man.
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:57 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:57 pm linkquote
Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
While modifying my '63 Allstate front fork, I first tried an Indian front fork complete. The quality was terrible and the fork cracked when I pressed on the lower fork bearing race. My front fender would not fit as well nor would the fork install on the bike. The hole for the pivot axle was off center and presented a potential problem of a failure due to the stresses on this part of the swing arm. It was a disaster and the complete fork assembly went into the trash can. The seller sent me a bajaj swing arm to appease me and I tried to fit it to my modified original Allstate fork. It worked but it needed some machining to get a reasonable fit. Later while trying to press in sealed bearings, the swing arm broke into many parts. The quality was also not good. I then ordered the FA Italia swing arm and the quality was like night and day. The Fa Italia swing arm fit perfectly and installation was easy. I have no regrets using the Fa Italia swing arm.

My advice wouild be not to use the swing arm you have with the crack. This could be very hazardous. I would not paint the bajaj swing arm you have. Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate. Don't comprise on this critical part of the front fork assembly and install a high quality swing arm.


Complete Indian front fork assembly. Note the pivot hole is off center and could lead to a failure.


Brake shoes that were installed on the Indian fork. They were terrible.


Crack in the fork from pressing on the lower bearing race.


Bajaj swing arm showing raised seams that need to be machined down before use.


Bajaj swing are installed on '63 Allstate.


Fa Italia swing arm. The superb quality is certainly evident.

Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:56 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:56 am linkquote
Re: Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
RB Prior wrote:
Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate.
Dang it RB - here I am trying to save a buck. But you're totally right. The Bajaj swing arm didn't feel "right" as I was cleaning it up, so I'll just pony up and buy a FA Italia one.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow!
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:32 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:32 pm linkquote
Re: Allstate Front Fork Swing Arms
qascooter wrote:
RB Prior wrote:
Personally, I would think twice about using the bajaj swing arm. The quality just is not there. I could not put such poor quality on my classic Allstate.
Dang it RB - here I am trying to save a buck. But you're totally right. The Bajaj swing arm didn't feel "right" as I was cleaning it up, so I'll just pony up and buy a FA Italia one.

Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow!
Gascotter: I commend you for deciding to put a quality swing arm on your Allstate. This is a critical area and safety has to be the prime concern. I wish you well as you complete your project. The old Allstate Vespas are something to be cherished and your superb restoration is a excellent example on doing it properly. If I can be of help in modifying your front fork, please let me know.

Best regards.
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:23 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:23 pm linkquote
I've welded the dempner bracket onto the fork. To say I'm sorely disappointed in my welds is a huge understatement. So much so that I'm selling the welder and I'll take what needs welding out to the local welder on the outskirts of town called Jack Smoot.

What should've taken me 5 minutes of prep and 2 minutes of welding, took me 3 hours of dicking around and coming out with a crappy ass job. Oh well, live and learn. I'm not going to stress. I am pissed at myself though.

On the bright side - it is welded and it's not going anywhere, and it'll be hidden under the fender. So tomorrow I'll paint the fork, then wait for the rest of the parts to get here from ScooterMercato.


Ready to go


The end result...




I'm so embarrassed - what a hack job...


I'm pissed I did such a crappy job....


I used this pic from RB for the placement off the bracket. Thanks RB!

Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:52 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:52 pm linkquote
Your welded damper bracket may look bad but it is not going anywhere. My welded bracket did not look good either but once it was painted, it looked fine, And as you said, it is under the fender anyway.


Welded damper bracket.


Welded damper bracket.


Welded damper bracket.


Painted front fork with welded damper bracket.

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:40 am linkquote
RB, your weld looks great, but thanks for the encouragement!

I've got a question for y'all: should I paint the new swing arm to match the frame, like the original swingarm was, or leave it the color it comes in?

I'm inclined to leave it the color it comes in because it's not original. What's your opinion???


Original swing arm paint.

Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:34 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5139
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5139
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:34 am linkquote
on the paint your bike your choice...

on the welding - don't sell your welder, go get some scrap metal and practice practice practice.... i wish i had space and time to learn home welding!
Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:46 am

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:46 am linkquote
^^^ +1
And is that a wire feed or stick welder and same Q to RB?
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:05 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:05 am linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Is that a wire feed or stick welder and same Q to RB?
Wire feed. I'd love to play around with a stick feed welder. For some reason, I feel I could do better with a stick feed.

And I've practiced a ton. The kicker is you've got 1" of welding to do, or less. I guess it comes into practicing the initial contact. I obviously need a huge amount of "practice".
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:38 am

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3331
Location: Staten Island, NY
 
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 3331
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:38 am linkquote
Everyone always says stick welding is hard, but it was what they taught me in sculpture class 20 years ago and I picked it up fast. Grabbed I couldn't do aluminum or thin metal with it. Never tried any of these other welding types but I imagine it's not easy to do it well. Keep at it! But you should try stick welding just to see if you like it better.
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:29 pm

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:29 pm linkquote
Looking real good, yes practice will make better on the welding, it's all about the proper heat setting.
Just curious as you ask about the painting, do the wheel rims need a special paint ? Like do they warm up enough to do anything to normal auto paint?
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:45 pm linkquote
Lynnb wrote:
Just curious as you ask about the painting, do the wheel rims need a special paint ? Like do they warm up enough to do anything to normal auto paint?
Hey Lynn - I wouldn't think they need a special paint - just the single stage that the body was sprayed with seemed to pretty much last the 57 years - same as the body paint. This to say - I don't know.

I've got some single stage paint that the local paint guy mixed for me. I plan on painting the fork. The Allstate had matching rims, hubs, and the front swing arm. I'm debating if I should paint the swing arm too, like when it was new. But since it's a different style than when it was original, I'm inclined to leave it the silver it'll come in. Just curious what other people think.
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:49 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8299
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:49 pm linkquote
qascooter wrote:
V oodoo wrote:
Is that a wire feed or stick welder and same Q to RB?
Wire feed. I'd love to play around with a stick feed welder. For some reason, I feel I could do better with a stick feed.

And I've practiced a ton. The kicker is you've got 1" of welding to do, or less. I guess it comes into practicing the initial contact. I obviously need a huge amount of "practice".


I'll bet you a dollar this was stick welded or I'm wrong and RB knows better than most how to do wire well, and has a real nice machine that has lots of options.

RB?


For what qa is doing he'd want to turn up the power for good penetration and use medium large rod. The trick is to "point" or aim the rod mostly at the heavier piece being welded, in this case the fork. RB did it a lot better than the one I did, excellent penetration all around the bracket and so pretty!

And Swiss, you can do thin metal, it's just a lot more challenging and you should use a thick copper backer if possible to chill the back side. Or even frozen hamburger if that might work better . You gotta turn the power way down and use tiny rod and make tiny passes that look like hell until dressed down or you will blow through.





Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:38 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:38 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
^^^ +1
And is that a wire feed or stick welder and same Q to RB?
A MIG (Metal Inert Gas) welder was used to weld the damper bracket on the front fork of my '63 Allstate. That is a wire feed welder that uses an inert gas to shield the weld.


Damper bracket MIG welded to front fork of a '63 Allstate.

Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:52 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Mar 06, 2020 9:52 am linkquote
The fork is painted! Now I'm just waiting for parts, which'll be here tomorrow.

What is it about, when you have paint left in the gun, the need to use it all up? I ended up tagging a bunch of my tools with blue paint.

And I like painting way more than welding - just so you know.


My highly professional and effective paint booth. Two saw horses and a heater. Ha!


Mr. Safety here. I love being able to dial in the paint gun to spray just the right amount and size.

Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:43 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:43 pm linkquote
qascooter wrote:
The fork is painted!
You did a great job and the damper bracket looks fine. You will be on the road very soon.
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:14 pm

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:14 pm linkquote
Looks great , I emptied the primer gun last nite after touching up all the sanding through to bare metal I did and today seen one spot buy the steering lock I missed, grrrr.
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:04 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:04 pm linkquote
Parts
So I'm all excited and got my parts in today. Then I unwrapped the swing arm and check this out...

Looks like I'll be waiting to put it together....


Bummer...


Should I grind it all back and clean it up, or return it?...

Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:09 pm

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4542
Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4542
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:09 pm linkquote
That just does not seem right. Bummed for you. Better minds will come along to advise.
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:13 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:13 pm linkquote
Regarding your swing arm, it looks like the coating is coming off of the steel portion of the swing arm. There are several things I would try. First, try inserting your fork into this space making sure you already have the new bearings inserted in the fork. I would bet it won't fit. Then you could gird off the coating exposing the steel and try fitting the front fork in that space. I used the brass colored spacer that was on my original fork and the fork fit just right in the swing arm. My FA Italia swing arm came with this coating machined off already (see photo). The support is obtained by the steel part, not the coating.

I find it strange that the FA Italia swing arm was sent out this way. If it is not a genuine FA Italia, then it may be an Indian part and I would return it. My FA Italia swing arm came with a sticker on it showing the brand (see photo).

Please post additional photos of your swing arm so I can better deteremine what it is.

Be patient and be safe.


FA Italia swing arm with coating machined off at the front pivot axel.


FA Italia swing arm sticker that came attached to my new swing arm.


Brass spacer from old Allstate fork used with the new FA Italia swing arm.

Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:15 pm

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

 
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2516

Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:15 pm linkquote
I think if it were me I would send it back for a replacement, that just isn't right.
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:05 am

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:05 am linkquote
I think the swing arm is a product of a Friday afternoon, or an apprentice. It came wrapped in FA italia plastic. Whatever the case may be, David has already contacted me (and it's the weekend!) and we'll get it sorted on Monday. That is what I call customer service!

RB, the axle fits between with plenty of room. I'll be adding washers to take up the difference. I think I'll grind off the casting and see what I've got left. It should work fine but we'll see after I grind away...


The back side of the axle mount


The label that came in the package


The shrinkwrap it came wrapped in

Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:19 am

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2471
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2471
Location: Veria, Greece
Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:19 am linkquote
F.A. Italia is famous for the amount of mozzarella they put in their aluminum recipe

Personally, I would return it...
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am linkquote
Gascooter - You no doubt received a genuine FA Italia swing arm. Personally, I would remove the coating down to the metal. This is the way my FA Italia swing arm was like when I got it. I then used spacers, including the brass one from my original fork, to take out any end play between the swing arm and the fork. But this is not right to send this swing arm out in the condition you received it. If Scooter Mercato has another one, I would return it for a replacement. When I bought mine, they only had one and they were difficult to get. For the money you spent, returning it for a replacement is probably the best approach.


Original brass spacer installed on the new FA Italia swing arm.

Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:53 am

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:53 am linkquote
The original brass spacer I used was actually hollowed out and fit over the lip of the new bearing I pressed into the fork It covered the bearing lip and I wanted to use it for I felt it looked better and also was part of my original Allstate fork. On the other side of the fork where the bearing was pressed in, no cover was used. The exposed bearing lip is shown in the photo (red arrow). It also shows how much additional space the new bearing lips add to the fork and I now recall I did not use additional spacers. Note that no powder coating is on the inside of the swing arm, the bearing lip is in direct contact with the metal on the swing arm. In the original fork, the bearings were nearly flush with the fork and thus spacers were used. If you use the original bearings, then spacers will be needed to take up the end play between the fork and new swing arm. If you pressed in new bearings, then they most likely will have the thicker lip and less spacers, if any, will be needed. I hope this helps.


Fork connected to the new FA Italia swing arm. New bearings were pressed into the fork which had thicker lips (red arrow) than the original bearings.

Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:24 pm

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
 
Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 320
Location: Central Ohio
Sun Mar 08, 2020 4:24 pm linkquote
Front Axle Issue
When I dismantled my old Allstate front fork, I quickly re-inserted the original axle back into the fork to prevent the needle bearings from falling out (see photo) as I had intended to use the original fork bearings. Re-inserting the axle was easy since it was slightly tapered. But when I tried to install the fork in the new FA Italia swing arm using the new non-threaded axle, the little needle bearings came falling out. This was because the new axle was not tapered and the edge caught on the needle bearings and pushed them out. I then decided to installed the two fork bearings that came with the new axle. These needle bearings seem to be enclosed in a race and were not going to fall out during installation. With the new bearings installed, inserting the new axle was easy.

If you plan on using your old original bearings, you might try to install the old axle first and then, using the new axle, push the old axle out. This may or may not work. I never tried it.


Fork with original axle installed to prevent the fork needle bearings from falling out while working on the fork.


New axle with one new bearing on it. It came with two new needle bearings which were subsequently installed in the fork.

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