Modern Vespa

So here's something new from Malossi right before they close for a month. Modern Vespa members are the first in the US to hear about it.
We just got them today and I don't think anyone else except Malossi's own stores has it available yet, much less in inventory.
Malossi has made both variator plates for a lot of scooters for years, and finally made them for the Vespa 150 3 Valve and Vespa 250-300.
They are supposed to cool the transmission better, and have other advantages over the stock plate. I know we have sold a lot of them for various Honda and Kymco models, and the Yamaha T-Max and Minarelli race bike, so I was happy to see this announced a few months ago.
Here's what Malossi says about it:
It's a fixed half-pulley with a diamond finish of the belt-side pulley surface and a redesigned working angle to further increase the gearing range. This component completes the Multivar and renders it unparalleled. Specially designed for the line of variable-speed drives for scooters, it further improves the performance of the drive belt. It is not just a simple accessory, but a very important part for guaranteeing the long life of all the transmission components. The temperatures produced inside the crankcases where variators work with V-belts are prohibitive at critical moments and certain parts, such as transmission belts and variator rollers, sometimes suffer irreparable damage. There are cases in which the rollers could even reach the melting point. Apart from its other advantages, Ventilvar has a greater cooling capacity than the original half-pulley; that's a result that makes it indispensable for safe and sporty driving.

Do you know the price or part number?

But of course.

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/01-malossi-master-part-list/malossi-variator-outer-pulley-for-vespa-piaggio-250-300

https://scooterpartsco.com/malossi/01-malossi-master-part-list/malossi-variator-outer-pulley-for-vespa-piaggio-125-150-3v

Any word as to what the angle is?

Is this a stand alone outer plate for a OEM variator?

Will work on OEM or Malossi variators.

Someone buy, test & review please

Even someone measuring the angle would give us an insight.

why would you want a 1/2 variator at a different angle than the other half?
Would it not put a slight twist in the belt?

Std angle is 15 deg. many aftermarket variators have a slightly different angle which is why I asked if there is any word on what it is. This is so they can either allow the belt to sit lower at idle or forced the belt higher at max.

Some after market variators are slightly different diameter also to achieve the latter. This can be problematic on a Vespa as there isn't much space and can cause the dreaded belt rubbing on the casing.

So if running an aftermarket variator you may already have two halves with different angle.

why would you run a different manufacture of the vari and the vari outer plate?

I guess i could ask why one needs to.

If you look at pictures of aftermarket variators they only come with one half.

Likewise one can install only an aftermarket outer half, if one wishes. Sometimes generic ones are cheaper or different. It depends on one's needs.

Agreed not Vespa but if one had a Honda PCX the stock outer variator plate has a diameter of 117mm with a 15 degree angle. A Dr. Pulley outer has a diameter of 121mm and an angle of 14 degrees.

Was able to get one from Taipei earlier this week can't wait to install it on my Sprint with the Multivar 2000.

If you install it all at the same time you will never know which piece makes or made the difference.

It's an uncanny coincidence that the product that you're promoting is on sale by you.

No one could accuse you of blatant self promotion.

News Guy - What do you say to those people who accuse you of blatant electioneering ?

Politician - Vote for Me !

Bill x

I still don't understand the single words you use to prefix your posts. Is there a primer?

I believe the OP is a paying sponsor so is entitled to self promotion.

Personally I'm wondering why change the angle on the variator bits at all.

I mean, the belt has an angle in it, don't we want to about match that?

Worst case I'd think is the variator bits have a shallower angle such that the inner part of the belt rides on the variator instead of the outer parts.

in the sponsors area.

I'll get a hold of a stock half-pulley and do a side by side comparo to show everyone.

I'm just new to scooters so when you say angle, is this the angle of the small fins or the the angle of the angle of the cone?

Anyway will post pics soon

In your terminology angle of the cone or face angle. Stock is 15 deg.
Check if the diameter is the same as stock. But Vespa is limited by the dreaded "case rub" where at maximum extension of the CVT the belt sometimes rubs on the inside of the engine casing.

Pithy Mullet

It's a new performance product for Vespas. Some people are interested. Others ride Kymcos.

It affects how the belt moves in the variator, and how far the belt can move in the variator. Increasing the drive face angle (to a point) is usually associated with better acceleration. Aftermarket companies have made performance oriented outer plates for the 50cc racers for years, and Malossi and other companies have made them for the bigger Yamaha and Honda/Kymco scooters for years. This is the first time, that I know of, that they have done anything for the bigger Vespa engine.

With face angle of 15 deg at maximum variator extension the belt is usually about 1/8 below the top. If the face angle is 14 degrees the gap between the two pulley halves will be less and force the belt further out of the pulley (insert trigonometry equation here.)

OR for the same movement at maximum extension then at 14 degrees the distance will be more at the bottom at idle allowing the belt to ride lower ie, lower stating gear or no need to fuzzy washer.

Yup that's a fair point and I really can't argue with it.

The reason I asked was when I first came here SDG was given some kind of reprimand for self promotion.

I'm not sure if it was a ticking off or a suspension of some sort but the moderators felt that some kind of parameters had been stretched.

Being helpful extending into rampant advertising kind of scenario.

I couldn't figure out if it was something more personal between sites owner and SDG but it definitely happened.

That's why I asked. Nothing personal.

Bill x

Can't seem to find any tool to measure the angle but here's a couple of pics compared to a stock one from and LXV. Will buy a protractor tomorrow.

They look very similar though!

Or in other words exactly the same.

What am I missing ?

Bill x

The cone angle on the shiny side is a bit different if you compare them side by side. There's definitely some angle difference from the looks of it but I'm not exactly sure by how much. Will get a measuring tool tomorrow

Good Man.

This I'm looking forward to.

Is it one of those imperceptible differences that you can't actually see but make a huge difference kind of deal ?

Bill x

Do they have a red one? I love my red oil filter, hanging off the bottom of the bike sticking out like a baboons bum, putting all those "I can't afford a malossi filter" scooter owners to shame. I'd need to chop the transmission cover of course so people could see it.

from a man from a place where most of the birds can't fly.



Have you found an red BREMBO plastic cover for the front caliper yet?

I get the sense that people are not receptive of stock parts being replaced for "performance".

Can someone explain why this is the case?

Is the general consensus toward seeing these parts as unnecessary? Is it because they don't do anything and the stock stuff are good? Hope to get constructive feedback guys, appreciate it.

I'm new to this and I am interested in learning these things. I personally find it fun to tinker with parts, similar to what people do with cars.

Indeed the Ventilvar has an angle of 14deg vs 15deg found in the stock half-pully

If I speak my mind on your question do you promise not to take offence ?

Bill x

Of course. Not taking offense at all as what I've previously mentioned, i'm just Curious on how good or useless these things are.

For me I really don't see the point.

You're only really getting more acceleration and even that's going to get boring after a while.

Tuning creates many variables and you know where you are with standard.

If the Malossi kit is $600 and you're looking at an increase of 4 hp is it really worth it ?

Go buy a BV which is bigger, faster and handles better than a GTS plus the process is so much less complicated but sexy they are not.

As far as I know they don't make tuning kits for BV's. Probably because they don't need them.

Motovista is welcome to prove me wrong on that score.

Me, I have two bikes. One fast and one slow. Keep it simple.

The question do you tune something that wasn't designed to go fast or just buy something that goes fast ?

Bill x

Just for some background, what was your experience vs. expectations of the highly tuned modern scooters you have ridden compared to their stock counterparts?
While there are a lot of performance parts available for the BV350, there aren't cylinder kits. Usually it takes an active racing program for a company to develop these, and to the best of my knowledge, nobody is racing the BV350.
There are active racing programs for the 50cc air cooled and liquid cooled scooters, and it's a very affordable way to get into racing, so lots of products. If someone races in one of the cup series by Malossi or Polini, they first get a huge discount on the package of parts and then get a refund after participating in a certain number of races. So the parts are almost free if you use them in the Cup Races. There might be something similar in the 2020 Scooter Cannonball Run, but it's a work in progress.
There are racing series for the Vespa Sprint 150, so lots of products, Piaggio Typhoon and Zip, lots of products, Yamaha Aerox, lots of products, Vespa GTS, lots of products, Yamaha T-Max (probably doesn't need performance parts, because it's a little quicker than the BV350), but a huge amount of performance products, including cylinder kits, cams, shocks, Over-range transmission kits and six different gears that allow for a total of 14 different final drive ratios, and other scooters that compete in these series. It's a very affordable way for someone to get into road racing, at a remarkably young age, and some of the people who have gone through these programs end up in MotoGP and other high level racing programs. At the base level of cup racing, you can put a competitive scooter on the track for less than $2000.
So that's who this stuff is really for. To level the playing field economically for participants and develop the talent of young racers with more enthusiasm than money. If you go to the Malossi booth in Eicma, it is full of teenagers asking quite knowledgeable questions about the new products. Most of them seem to know how this stuff works, and what it's going to do for them on the track. Then you come to AIMExpo, and it's a completely different crowd, considerably older, and with a lot less experience or knowledge about how these parts are supposed to fit together and work.
Had you grown up participating in scooter racing in Italy, Spain, Germany, France, and probably the UK (I don't know what exists there), you would know a lot of this. Most of us on this forum didn't. So we don't. And we're learning at a much later point in life. And it's still fun.

Now I am taking "offense". I see my BV350 as sexy. So beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Just for some background, what was your experience vs. expectations of the highly tuned modern scooters you have ridden compared to their stock counterparts?

Was this question aimed at me ? I wasn't sure.

If it was for me then it's academic as I had no experience or expectations because tuning a GTS or smaller for the road seems pointless so I wouldn't invest my money in something that's parameters were worked out by people who engineer these things for a living.

Then we come along and think we know better or decide that it's not enough.

Well if you rode it before you bought it why did you buy it knowing that it wasn't going to fast enough ?

Sure if something has failed and you're taking this opportunity to replace it with something better but to attempt to making it quicker when it's displacement is so small in the first place, why bother ?

Sorry, I'm irrationally ranting about something that I'll never be involved in.

If I was being cynical I'd suggest that it's more about promoting ( by that i mean bragging ) what parts you've had fitted than actually using them in anger.

I'll shut my gob now.

Bill x