Modern Vespa

Just thought I'd ask. I'm seriously considering buying myself a small RV or van conversion over in the Netherlands with a rack on back for my 250 & shipping it over with the goal of open-ended (more than a year) travel.

If anyone's ever done it, I'd be curious to know what it cost.

I could buy a smaller scoot over there, but want to weigh the cost of that against shipping my new and beloved GTS.

Thanks,
Karen

I used a company called Shipco Transports (310-538-0888) www.shipco.com
Good luck!

Could you buy one when you arrive and sell it when you leave? Might be easier and cheaper in the long run....

So far, it looks like shipping it over would run about $800, which is likely a lot less than buying something over there. Plus, I'd have my top drawer baby over there...

Karen

I understand. I have bought used in the past and when it came time to sell you only pay for depreciation. I bet ot would be about the same but having your baby there with you will make it very special.

There might be an issue with Customs and declared value. The Customs people might charge a healthy duty, thinking that you might sell it there. Likewise, bringing it back might be difficult if you can't prove you didn't buy it abroad. I have run into that scenario just going to Canada from Michigan and back.

Also consider that your beloved V could be damaged in transit either or both ways. Taking a fork truck amidships is not unheard of. I would rent or buy abroad and then leave it there.

That's a good price for the shipping, I would go for it. The California plates will also give you something to talk about. We shipped a '57 BMW and sidecar to the UK back in 1984 and rode around England, Ireland, and Scotland and it was well worth it even though the sidecar was on the wrong side of the bike. I also like to travel with a scooter behind me...

It's always interesting how we have 'go for it' types and 'cautious' types. One issue I'll be considering is the 'whether to crate it up before shipping or not' issue. Don't know if doing so would help or not with 'cautious' types' worries about crime in the process or not, but it would help me feel more secure. I'm sure cautious ones will have many reasons why that approach is only vaguely helpful.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the input from any point of view.

Karen

+1
Lucky

You should consider importing your Vespa to the Europe twice because of the red tape involved that could be more red chains.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Karen

I have heard that buying and selling in Europe can be tricky. Here's a thread from ADV Riders regarding Austria and Germany :

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166595

Thanks for the link. I'll read it tomorrow.

In my case, the issue is simply shipping it over there, using it for a few years over there, then shipping it back. The amount of time I will spend has something to do with the particulars of how hard it will be to return the Vespa later on. I will have documentation showing I bought it here, that I paid EU appropriate insurance on it while over there, and I'm hoping/expecting that this will make returning it in a few years less of a problem.

Helpful cautious ones will have input on how this is short-sighted, I hope.

Karen

Most countries have a limit on the length of time an unregistered, in that country, vehicle can be on the roads. This would be determined by the date on your tag and your proof of entry date (Passport/shipping invoice).

It is usually difficult for a non-resident to obtain registration and insurance, on a vehicle, in a foreign country. Different countries have different rules, so check several. You might find a country that fits your needs easily. Do your homework well before you put the scooter on the boat or plane.

Good luck. Your trip sounds like an excellent adventure.

Janine

If you take a foreing vehicule to the Netherlands you can only drive/ride it with the original numberplates for half a year, after that you will have to pay dutch road taxes.

Because your vespa will probabely be considered as an import you may have to pay environmental taxes (BPM) as well. And you must have it tested as well, all extra costs.

You might try this site (in dutch):http://www.rdw.nl/nl/voertuigeigenaar/
It is an official site of the department of transport

Greets

Thanks for the info, Janine & Dutchman. I will be working closely with the guys at B&W on these details. I don't know how it will be affected by the fact that I'll be moving around, likely not in one country for 6 months at a time.

Karen

Karen,

While you're at it I might also consider not buying your RV in the Netherlands.
They may be cheaper in Germany or France because they do not have the environmental tax called BPM like we have.

Greets

Dutchman, from my research thus far, it looks like B&W are the only dealer who will take care of registration and insurance for me so I don't have to worry about being a non-resident. This is important to me. In Germany, they won't register a vehicle to a non-EU resident.

Karen

It still might be worth it to see if you can arrange this in an other country.
BPM is about 45% on cataloge price. So you pay half a car extra.
In France the road tax is in the fuel price, might be an option

Don't take me wrong, I am trying to help, you are more than welcom in my country

Why don't you buy an RV here and ship the whole thing, scooter and all over to Europe. There is good info about this at :
http://www.expeditioncampers.com

It's less expensive if your rig will fit in a container otherwise there are many roll on - roll off options. This company, Wallenius Wilhelmsen seems well regarded : http://www.2wglobal.com/www/WEP/ This is what we plan to do someday. If you get a rig based on the Dodge (Mercedes) Sprinter you would have no problems with service and repair plus they get excellent fuel mileage.

We shipped all of our belongings to France when we moved there. It all got there eventually, but our stuff got "lost" while it took a trip to another port (Bremen, Germany) by accident. It took an additional 2 months to get our stuff because of this error, which may have been administrative.

It wasn't a car or scooter, but unplanned things do happen, and the more unusual your request, the more likely something "administrative" will come up.

Good luck, and have fun!

Thanks for your ideas & support, guys. Jeffrey, that Expeditions Campers site looks fabulous. I will enjoy diving into it for a few hours. It's just what I'd been looking for but couldn't find!

Karen

Yes, It's a very helpful group. One of the Expedition Camper members Carl Hunter shipped his camper to Turkey and travelled the Silk Route to China with the Silk Route Motorcaravan Club, a rather bold undertaking. Their site makes for some interesting reading :
http://www.xor.org.uk/silkroute/index.html

I've been researching buying in Germany, and the problem is finding a dealer who will do what B&W will do in Holland: handle the registration and insurance. A guy on Lonely Planet forums found one in 2005 I think, but never shared the company's name.

Next is researching how it would be to find one in France, as I have a good friend there whose home could be my 'residence'.

I posted on the Expedition site, but it's not heavily frequented, and most of them are into off-road adventure travel which is a bit beyond what I envision.

Karen

you might try sending Piaggio a letter for help. I've often thought it would be cool if they set up a program like Volvo and Volkswagen used to have, where you could buy a vehicle over there, travel with it, and then have it shipped back home.

Failing that, give Scooterbobby an e-mail, he may know of a way to help you.

Pigs will fly before this happens.

I had written conversations with PiaggioUSA last year, or the year before, suggesting this very thing, and got nowhere. Even faxed them info from Volvo... which, at one time, offered U.S. buyers a discount off sticker price, plus free round-trip airfare and free car insurance for two weeks of driving around Europe, and then free shipping of the car over here.

All I wanted was to be able to pick up and drive the new Vespa in Europe and then have Piaggio ship it here at their expense -- as they would have to do anyway.

Their answer, in a nutshell: Buy it here, ship it there, and then ship it back. Thanks for nothing!

Because of EPA and DOT homologation red tape, nobody but PiaggioUSA can legally import new Vespas into the U.S. Catch 22.

Update: Just thought I'd check back in with some updated info for the benefit of anyone else thinking of doing this.

I learned that in in France, which will be my 'base' (& likely most of the rest of Europe), you can only drive up to a 125cc scooter legally with a 'normal' driver's license (this would include the usual non-EU formula of a US license + International Driver's License). For larger cc engines, you need a special license. At least in France, if you drive a 125cc for 2 years, you're then eligible to drive a 250cc on a regular license. For this reason, there is a large market of snazzy 125cc scooters, Vespas included.

Hence, I will be selling my beloved barely-500-miles Buttercup and buy another 125cc one in France. After much consideration, I've decided to get a long term visa and then apply for a carte de sejour (residence card) once I settle into my friend's house in Paris, hopefully this coming September. Once I have that, I can buy & register my RV rig & scooter over there.

Since I plan to be over there for more than a year, this seems like the smartest way to go--I'll be relatively 'legal', which will be helpful should problems arise. Now I have to decide whether or not to go through the massively draconian process of getting a French driver's license (apparently they delight in making it as hard as humanly possible to pass the damn tests!), or risk long term driving with my CA license + an International Driver's Permit, which I can renew by mail each year. Others I know doing this adventure choose the latter and report few, if any, problems.

Hope this info might help someone else in the future.

Karen

If you are going to tour the rest of Europe as well, you might have trouble even riding a 125 cc vespa in some countries.
In my country someone can only ride more than 50 cc with a proper MC licence

If you use your USA motorcycle liscence you shouldn't have any problems.

post deleted by Salima

Thanks for the input.

Dutchman, I think I'll go with Curt's comment, and take my chances, brazen one that I am. (Tho, being a reader of various Dutch mystery/crime writers, van de Wittering being a present favorite, and being vaguely familiarized with the eccentricities of Dutch legalisms, I'm sure the trouble I have zipping about on obscure country roads will have as much to do with who stops me--if they do, and my interaction with them once I produce my US cycle license & other documents... ;^)

Salima, I appreciated your commentary. I'm just now beginning the process of 'getting rid of stuff', preparing my home to be rented as, probably, partially furnished. It is both a PITA and a positive, enlightening (physically *and* self-reflectively) experience. I've been to Europe enough to know what 'supplies' to ship over to my friend's house for my 'rig' vs those to buy there. (Bed linens, for example, turn out to be MUCH more costly over there!) I do plan to buy my scooter & RV over there, and agree that doing so makes dealing with local laws/regs easier.

As for styles and blending in, I guess I'm not one who pays much attention to that...(at least as far as what I wear goes). At my age, appearances don't matter much to me--the gist of my interactions with others over there, from my experience, stems mostly from conveying 'heart' as I try to communicate, with whatever level of language skills I have mastered. But I agree re: interacting with locals in the process of 'getting set up' over there. It's a lot of fun, too.

Also, moving around most of the time will be different from living in one place, where blending might well feel more important. I think your approach is a wise one, and the experiences I'm after have little to do with 'stuff'. That's a whole, interesting discussion!

Karen

(post deleted by Salima)

Salima, I *completely* get your drift. 'Nuff said.

Thanks for your comments on my photos. My passion for capturing bits of beauty over in Europe is what's driving this whole adventure. I'm glad someone can take pleasure from what makes me so happy.

By the way, what country are you from? (Just curious--you can PM me if you want.)

Karen

Pigs will fly before this happens.



Because of EPA and DOT homologation red tape, nobody but PiaggioUSA can legally import new Vespas into the U.S. Catch 22.[/quote]

Hiya Peter

Long time, no speaky. Not since the Greg Kinge tour, I think.

Anyway, I thought you'd like to know, although I've forgoteen all the exact details and long lost the links, that the US authorities (can't remember of its NHTSA, EPA or what) periodically release a list of vehicles sold outisde this country that they already consider homologated. There are some Vespa and Piaggio bikes on that list, [del]although I'm pretty sure the Euro 125cc engine versions are not.[/del] You can bring those vehicles in as a personal import. Its pricey though. Whatever shipping quote you get, ad about another $400 onto it for all the little "clearance" fees you'll pay at the docks on arrival.

[del]I'll take a dig round tonight and see if I can find more info.[/del]

Edit: Text added below
Here's the link to the list. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/elig010807.pdf

Scroll down to Vespa. 2001-2002 ET2 & ET4 are on the list, I think because the guy that used to run Vespa Denver applied to have them included, but I might be wrong on that point. My memory isn't that good.

Andrea

if you need any advice for Italy.. feel free to contact me.

Make sure you get an "international license" before you leave the states - anotate the "class I" motorcycle license (motorcycle licenses can be an extreme PITA here in Europe). some countries require international licenses, others don't, but fines in the countries that require them can be stiff.

If you are going to be touring for "a year or so" you may want to pick a home base "country" and get licensed etc. from that country - an EU license can be better to use than passports in some countries. And from a safety/security standpoint, you probably don't want US plates on your vehicle.

The Army shipped my Vespa in the household goods, and SOFA agreements let me license my vehicles with no problems, so I can't talk to the challenges of shipping, other than that mine arrived without damage and after adding fuel, fired right up!

Sounds like this will be a great adventure for you - good luck! If you get stuck or have problems ln my area, giva a shout.