Modern Vespa

Now if you're talking about aesthetics then I lucked in because the Benelli was designed in Italy like all the pretty things.

Bill x

If you want a good analogy it's a bit like buying Kelloggs Corn Flakes or Publix Flakes of Corn.

Yes there are differences but it's fundamentally the same thing but cheaper.

Bill x

I'll take the Corn Flakes please.

I fill mine exactly every 2 weeks.

10 x 20 mile commutes
2 x potter around town at the weekend.
I'd say 250 miles in town, maybe more out on the open roads.
Note though they are not quick, with all that luggage and bars.

It I was going to try and prove something all those boxes would come off to reduce the drag.

Bill x

There is beautiful things even outside Italy ... we have an overrated reputation.

No you don't.

Bill x

... I don't know if you'd like to live in Italy ...

In general Italians will always emphasise on the aesthetics of something.

Be it people, clothes, buildings and motor vehicles.

Your passion for the superficial makes you shallow and often jealous.

Engineering. although very good always comes second and it's your passion for the pretty that will always keep it there as a runner up.

The Germans are the other way around as they always go for function over form.

I'd like to live in Italy but not near any bridges.

Bill x

Maybe not, but we all sure enjoy the occasional visit! 8)

Only in terms of government longevity, it appears. Otherwise, all good.

Here not only the bridges collapse, unfortunately here comes the aesthetics that the functionality ... you are right Bill but it is all this diversity concentrated in a small geographical area that makes us a tormented people but also tended to be extremely creative without paying attention to the rest. The Chinese are not like that, this is what they cannot buy and build to imitate the Made in Italy. This is why some of them come to Italy to produce, they have understood it.

I'm not sure that the Chinese understand passion on any level.

However they do understand how to copy and reproduce for less.

Most of it is because materials and labour are cheaper.

Correction all of it.

Bill x

Unfortunately not only in that and I say it with bitterness and infinite sadness, I see a world that is crumbling together with so many good things...

Cucù

Your pragmatism is like a stainless steel anvil and look, I just gave you a huge compliment

My wife and obviously all of her extended family are Chinese.

Not one of them cuts corners or tries to replicate.

They are all actually extremely successful diligent and very hard working.

It's built into them to study and work very hard.

Hence why I get so worked up by flippant generic quotes and comments.

Anyway I wouldn't buy a Sinnis Terrain and then remove all of its additions. They probably add up to 1/5 of its purchase price and mostly what it's about.
Sinnis do other full on 125 bikes that come naked and are £500 cheaper......

Hey I can't talk.

The English are exceptional at drinking, smoking, fighting and major at xenophobia.

We also have an inability to learn foreign languages.

We are repressed as a nation and need the above to release ourselves from our inhibitions.

We are the Champions.

Bill x

Wise words, aren't we good lol

You can get as worked up as you like but as an example how many copies of European and American cars have come out of China recently ?

Enough I'd say. Enough for copyrights to be infringed and suits issued.

I also remember a Chinese copy of an MP3 that was taken off a promotional stand as it infringed Italian copyrights.

Have they copied ? Of course they have because when you don't have any ideas of your own you take someone else's.

Many discontinued models and the factories they were built in were sold to China because it was simply cheaper to do that than rather start from scratch but when they couldn't do that they just copied famous marques and slapped a similar name on it.

I'm really sorry but this happened.

That's what the Japanese did with motorcycles but as that was 50 years back but it's all been forgotten.

Now they are world leaders in motor manufacture.

For further reading - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/22/jaguar-land-rover-wins-landmark-case-against-chinese-evoque-copycat

Bill x

When I say prove something I mean an endurance ride or something.

Actually not something. Another endurance ride.

The top case and panniers would only create drag and bring down the mpg.

That's why I'd bin them.

Bill x

Like this sort of thing?

https://www.sinnismotorcycles.com/the-mongol-rally/

And repeat...

https://www.sinnismotorcycles.com/2019mongolrally/

No. Nothing like that.

Look at my profile.

Something like that.

Bill x

If you want to prove what a CHINESE 125 bike can do, then simply follow or try to follow as their internet connection allows.

2 x Sinnis Terrain 125's being ridden from the UK to do this........
Nothing we can do in the UK or Europe touches on it.

https://buff.ly/2VZFlgH

This link is from Sinnis Webhelps Facebook page so hopefully works ok.

Nough said.

Haha just saw the 2 links!!

Go Chinese bikes!!!!

I know what a Chinese bike can do Bill.

I already have one.

Bill x

Rather than fighting their corner, being a Yorkshireman.

I thought sod it I'll ask my Chinese wife what she thinks (rather than shielding her as I tend to do), on all this.

It would need a whole new thread, which an Italian/American scooter forum doesn't need.

But the people are different in many things and that is why there are so many cultures and each one generates different ideas and objects; these differences opportunely crossed between them give rise to different results, good or less then we understand. It is the world that is like this, we are asking ourselves questions that were certainly tracks even thousands of years ago about those who made the best boat ... whether they were Chinese junks or Egyptian papyrus ships.

Yes but I think that you're selectively ignoring something.

Any similar spec'd 125cc motorcycle from the big 4 in Japan would do just as well if not better.

And that's the difference if the bikes didn't come from China no one would care.

It's called Marketing.

Bill x

I'm going to bow out of all these race based posts, once and for all.

The Americans, British, Europeans who are perfect and perfectly objective can debate and ultimately decide on China, the Chinese as an entire race, based upon probably a minimal amount of corporations.

There's an answer for everything in both directions and it gets us nowhere, minds are made up already and this is an Italian Scooter forum, not an underlying China phobia forum.

Enjoy your scooter or bike wherever it's from.

I also have an issue with this -

Nothing we can do in the UK or Europe touches on it.

How about the Francis Barnet Merlin, The Bullit Hero 125 and the AJS 125 Tempest Scrambler ?

All built in the UK.

You see Bill unlike you I don't deal with the emotive, I deal with the facts.

Bill x

I knew my scooter was made in Thailand but I didn't have any problems because I knew that Yamaha was the guarantor. So why make trouble ...?

I don't care what anyone says, I love Chinese food.

Maybe order some in before this thread goes full scale.

The only thing that my Dad ever said that I can truly remember was -

My mind is made up so don't complicate me with the facts.

I think that this is an excellent example of that.

I'll have the Noodles.

Bill x

Yes Bill. Its a twin.

Can it outrun 30-50 feral hogs?

Hang on, just checking the brochure.......

Sadly not.

Bill x

What about Korea?

The country has Seoul, but their cars do not!

I don't like it, I'm too used to Mediterranean cuisine ... then you have to consider that when you're used to a certain diet and change it with others whose stomach can react badly, there are no good results.

You have to eat a lot more fruits and vegetables, much more ...