Modern Vespa

Hello,

MP3 500 HPE Sport 2019, 2000 kms.

From cold start idling 3mins. the exhaust manifold from the head about 4-5 inches is glowing cherry red.

Same in ECO or Normal mode.

Checked one of the spark plugs (NGK MR7BI 8 ) looks normal, not burnt.
Idling is steady about 1700 rpm, running ok, when the clutch disengages eg., going slow down hill there is some spitting/"burbling" in the exhaust

Is this normal?

Thanks!

Does anyone know if it is normal for the header pipe to get red hot on the 500 E4 motor?

I have the 2016 ABS Model 500, and mine does not get Red.
I have the LeoVince Nero Exhaust, but it is using the same Header Pipe.

Keith,
Marietta, GA

It's not normal for an exhaust to get red hot. Have you checked your valve clearances?

Definitely sounds like something isn't right. There shouldn't be any reason the exhaust would get that hot, especially at idle. I've seen pipes get hot doing a dyno session, but never heard anything like this. If you have a warranty, you should bring it to the dealer immediately. Have you checked your fluid levels? Oil? Coolant?

Hello BJN. I also have a 2019 hpe and mine pops and spits and sputters going down hill every time,but I have never had the header pipe get Cherry red. It could be that your fuel mixture is too rich. I would have that checked if I were you. The pipe is supposed to get really hot,but it shouldn't get that hot.

I have been to the dealer who checked with diagnostic, and everything looks normal.
Did not get get an answer if it was normal or not, they said they would check with their technical dept. and call me, haven't got a call yet.

The header is red hot idling (always) even after running, can't see it in daylight (sunny) but in the dark garage it is cherry red!

It has been my expirience BJN that seeing is believing,and if they don't see it for themselves,they might not believe you. You might have to show them. I wish good luck in getting that Problem cleared up!

The dealer has seen it when they checked with diag.

I think I would go to another dealer, or impress on them to contact Piaggio Support. I would also go as far as calling Piaggio and speak to them.
I had an issue with my 2009 MP3 250 years ago, and I called Italy.
It got resolved and my dealer came back to me with their Tail between their legs.

Keith,
Marietta, GA

I will contact the dealer on Monday 21 10 to hear if they can explain why the header is so hot, they said they would call me but not heard anything so far.

Exhaust picture 2 mins after cold start

Hello BJN. That doesnot look normal. As I recall, you also said that your roller idles at 1700 rpms. Am I right? In any case,that's too high ! You'er rpms should be somewhere between 1250 and 1500. If your current dealer can't or wont help you,then seak out another Dealer!

idle at cold start is close to 2000 rpm and settles to about 1700 on the bikes tachometer.
The picture was taken from cold start without touching the throttle, I didn't rev the engine.

Hello BJN. A vehicle with a " Catalitic converter "and a "Lamda Sonde " don't need high rpms to warm up. Your rpms are too high. Also I just thought of another possibility. You might have a defective "Catilitic Converter ". Check to see if a free breathing exhaust. A slightly stopped up Converter could possibly cause your Header to turn Cherry Red.

Yes, that's very wrong. I wouldn't run the bike in that condition.

it means your combustion event in the cylinder is happening too late in the cycle. the combustion process isnt complete when the exhaust valve opens. combustion heat is easily able to turn the pipes red hot.

this can mean spark timing is too far retarded. it can also mean mechanical timing set wrong.

not likely catalytic related with such low mileage. severely clogged exhaust will stall engine.

it needs immediate attention and shouldnt be driven. you will burn exhaust valves.

How is your motor not dead yet?!

Thanks everyone for the replying,

I have not observed the glowing header before a few days ago.
I took delivery 08 August and never looked at the header when the motor was running, I first saw it as a reflection in a puddle of water on the garage floor.

I will contact the dealer before I before further use.

I have spoken to the dealer today (19 Oct.) and he will get more answers from the Piaggio distributor in Norway.

I want an official statement explaining the condition, and if it's ok or not.

I will have to be extra careful filling gas, not to spill any!!

i think something is blocking your air intake or so

I don't have any drivability problems at speed, at 80 kmh and above the motor is very smooth and acceleration is on hand, a steady 50 kmh at about 3000 rpm is ok, 2000-2500 rpm there is some "judder", a lot!, which is the worst thing about drivability.

I wouldn't expect this performance if there was an intake blockage.

I think jerryd might be right about the timing BJN. I'm afraid I didn't think about that. It's a good possibility that your timing is a tad off and could also be the cause of your high idle and if that's the problem,it could cause your Engine to run hotter and your header turn red hot!

Spark Plug

fuel consumption:last driven

km: 35
average: 29,6 km liter
average speed:52 km hour

The driven 35 kms where from sea level to 300 meters above, (up and down) on twisty roads, max speed was 90 kmh.

Spark Plug 2 inboard

what ron gas are you using?

95 octane

is that the highest they sell?

They have 98 octane ("Unleded Plus"), but most Eropean Engines are built for 95("Unleaded") only. If I´m not mistaken ,the higher ("98") Octane burns hotter in the chamber.

no the higher octane actually require more compression to get it to the point to fire . lower octane gas can actually pre ignite before the full compression cycle

maybe I should try 98?

the instruction book states minimum 95 octane and to use no more than 10% ethanol

That is not an octane issue, you need to get that to the dealership.

+1

Here's a pretty good article on causes of hot exhaust. This suggests that some of the possible causes are leaks, whether in vacuum, valves, or exhaust gaskets. I would take a new scooter back to the dealer. It should be covered under warranty.

https://boostatv.com/glowing-red-hot-exhaust/

Thanks for the link!

I am waiting for answers from the dealer

Bike is at the dealers...have to wait to see what they find.

Nice looking bike BJN

Love the White !
All my 4 Wheeler's are White, my favorite color.
It was not available when I purchased my 2016.

I watch this thread with interest with that Glowing Red Exhaust Header Pipe.
Just never saw this before.

Keith,
Marietta, GA

thats a really fabulous photo.

Looking at the spark plugs, I believe the fuel mixture is too rich .

How so? To tell from the spark plug you have to look at the lower part of the insulator - which isn't visible in those pics. Going just by the upper part, it looks as though it's far too lean a mixture - which is odd considering the FI...