OP
UTC

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Vespa GS
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UTC quote
Hello all! This is my first post here, so please be gentle! I am hoping to have some info. I have a new-to-me Vespa G.S....I think. I was wondering if you would please help me narrow down what it is. Here are some pictures. Thanks!

Edit:

I decided to delete the pictures because it's just too embarrassing to be associated with such a pile of crap. I was sincerely excited about this...
⚠️ Last edited by OSoleMio on UTC; edited 3 times
@johnymoore avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE, Triumph Bobber Gold Line
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Molto Verboso
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Vespa PX 177 Settantesimo, Vespa GTS Super 300 HPE, Triumph Bobber Gold Line
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UTC quote
Welcome to the forum.

A good start would be to look up the VIN number

https://www.vespa.name/vin-number
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Welcome!

What's the story behind the bike?

It looks like it might be a somewhat de-bodged bodge.
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UTC

Hooked
'66 Sears Cruisaire Smallframe
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Hooked
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Welcome!

What's the story behind the bike?

It looks like it might be a somewhat de-bodged bodge.
Yes, I actually posted the Craigslist link to this one in the Bodgespotting thread last week. Fortunately, I believe it was pretty cheap so no huge loss even if it is.
OP
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UTC quote
ugh. I'm done. Not going to get into the whole Vespa adventure I had planned. I was excited, and now I see my first dip of my toe in the pool ended up getting me drowned. I have so little money in this it isn't worth the ache to even think about it anymore. Poop.
⚠️ Last edited by OSoleMio on UTC; edited 1 time
UTC

Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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Ossessionato
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
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UTC quote
OSoleMio wrote:
Apart from the 3000 pimp trim pieces all over it, why do you see it as a bodge? I don't know what bodge means, but it seems bad considering the frowning face....

It's obviously ugly, poor thing, but I'm looking at the essential elements of the frame and bodywork and it looks like it could be a Mark II G.S. No? The VIN is where it should be under the right side rear cowl. It's covered in thick paint, so the prefix is illegible. BTW, the speedo is in KM per hour, not miles, for what that's worth.

I'm not sure about the motor. It isn't running and the "stator wires" were cut. I don't even know what that means... I think the motor is a later one that starts with VNX2. I have no clue about that either.

Looks like I'll need a new education! Thanks all.
A GS160 motor starts with VSB1T, so it doesn't have a GS motor. If you pull the engine side cowl off, it will be very apparent. The front suspension looks like it's from a PX, not GS. It might be one of those PX bikes that's been cosmetically converted to look like a GS. Anyway, the frame should have VSB1T prefix as well. It looks like a GS frame, and if it is with a PX motor, that's not a bad thing as you said you got it really cheap. You'll have strip the paint under the serial number to check it out.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
Typical Vietnamese import. Not a GS, just a bunch of scooters put together. P series fork, P series footbrake by the looks of it and the usual crappy chrome accessories. Even the bondo has started cracking everywhere. If you haven't paid too much for it, consider it a loss...
@greasy125 avatar
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Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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@greasy125 avatar
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UTC quote
well for starters, the brake pedal is not correct.

and not like "oh that should be natural finish and not chrome" wrong. like wrong, wrong. it's thru the floor board like a PX and has the corresponding PX floor mat. so there's that.

and as mentioned, that's not a GS fork. sooo... my guess is a super with a PX floor board and fork. or maybe a straight up PX with a repop horncast welded up to it.

besides all the other chintzy shit; would you like a list? yes. let us make a list:

obvious south east asian bodgery tells:
-full length chrome leg shield beading
-front fender/cowl protectors and embellishment
-plate holder
-goofy chrome/stainless piece on the fork tube under headset
-star "hub cap" on wheel
-stupid little yellow pilot light in head light

okay now for the more detailed junk:
-wrong rim and hub (that's a standard width rim)
-gas tank is wrong. as is the gas cap.
-seat is wrong
-bag hook is wrong
-horn is wrong
-kick start is wrong, looks to be P-series
-besides speedo not being even remotely correct it fits poorly


now the janky shit:
-the horn cast looks funky. like not straight. probably crappy 2nd off repop that's welded on poorly.
-fork is wrong, but how'd they get the fender to fit? pound to fit paint to match.
-again wrong fork. what body is this and does that fork even belong on there.
-engine appears to be tilted quite a bit to the RH side (hence the kick start probably hitting the cowl)

redeeming quality:
if those front crash bars are legit and decent, then you might be able to sell them for a few bucks.

probably have a P motor that might not be totally F'd out. so a doner for a project bike.

sorry for the bad news.
-g
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UTC quote
wow. I'm glad I asked you to be gentle. Holy crap.
⚠️ Last edited by OSoleMio on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
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Vespa GS
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UTC quote
Ugh and more ugh. It was fun while it lasted... for a hot minute. OSoleMio signing off forever... or for now....
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
Don't feel too bad, and as others said, hopefully you got it pretty cheap, as depending on the motor, this may not be the worst thing that could have happened in the "bought a bodge" department.

The reason we call these things out is not because they're somehow "wrong," but because they are almost invariably indicators of serious, as in "people have been killed on these bikes" serious, due to catastrophic failures while riding.

You've had a tough first lesson, but if you want to get into vintage scooters, hang around here, ask questions, and also realize that this community is always willing to help out, whether it's taking a look at a Craigslist posting for you (without swiping it) or even going over to check out a bike and giving you the thumbs up/down, to even teaching you how to do your own work, if that's your goal.

You're far from the first person to make an uninformed purchasing decision and wind up with one of these bikes. Don't beat yourself up, as you may just have a badly converted P-series, but also realize that you're going to be dealing with significant mechanical unreliability that's not indicative of vintage scooters overall (they can be tempermental, but what sixty-something isn't? )

Hang around, watch threads like "deal of the day" to look for something near you and "bodgespotting" to learn more. It's a great hobby, and relatively cheap as transportation-based hobbies go. You just happened to have a bad introduction to it.
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Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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@greasy125 avatar
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UTC quote
OSoleMio wrote:
wow. I'm glad I asked you to be gentle. Holy crap.
I was being gentle!

But like the c-man said, you're far from the first to make a mistake.

Hang out, ask questions, gather info and tid bits, make connections. You never know where your next bike will come from. I've bought from members here several times and sold to many many others.

It's one of those things, you never know when THAT BIKE is gonna pop up. Maybe somebody is unloading it, maybe it's a lead, maybe it's a project you want to undertake.

The thing is, there are the people here to help with any of that. Want a rally but found one in boxes dirt cheap? We'll help you get it back together. Saw something on c'list that might be decent? Throw it out there and we'll give honest opinions. Know exactly what you want? Post it up. Somebody might have it gathering dust in the garage.

Hell, if you were on this coast I'd try and sell you most of a VBB to go with that motor or a super 150 or any number of other bullshittery I've got kicking around.

Stick with it. You can only go up from here.
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UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
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UTC quote
Hello from the Vespa country! We are many Italians on MV. Welcome!
I understand greasy125, he made a direct but honest speech ... sometimes it is better to understand reality.
UTC

Hooked
PX 150 and GTS 300 HPE Super Tech
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Hooked
PX 150 and GTS 300 HPE Super Tech
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UTC quote
Does it run? Do the brakes work? If not, can you get it going inexpensively? If yes, ride the crap out of it and have fun with it. You have little money in it, so get it out and use it, and just don't plan for this one to be the one you restore. You have nothing to lose.
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Hooked
PX125E
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UTC quote
Re: First Post - Hey everybody!
I decided to delete the pictures because it's just too embarrassing to be associated with such a pile of crap. I was sincerely excited about this...[/quote]

Could you put the pictures back please? I ask this on behalf of the many people who come to this Forum for advice and we are slowly learning. There's no shame in asking anything. That's what Forums are for and this is one of the best.
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Dunno...
This could be interesting. I really don't know what it is. Definitely better in person than in pictures. Took it completely apart. Little to no rust (only surface). Not a lot of bondo on most of it. Looks like it has some skim bondo in a couple of parts, but minimal.

Looking on the backside of any bodywork, it is straight, no welds, nothing obviously strange in the sheet metal. Like the front fender is perfect underneath, as are the cowls.

The foot brake setup looks like it was added later (the hole isn't factory, and only 2 of the three mounting posts are used). So I think this might be a G.S. frame that was messed with. Can't see the VIN prefix numbers/letters yet.

I'd like to restore it back to stock. Where would I get the sheet metal parts for the rear brake pedal setup? Where would I find a G.S. gas tank? Maybe a junk, too-far-gone GS frame? No idea where to even look for that.

The engine is wrong, yes, and I have no idea what it it. Can anyone tell me what VNX2 is? I don't know if it's 125cc or 150cc (or even 200cc). How can I tell?

Thanks all.
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Pics
You deleted all your pics.... not much feedback when not much to see
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Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
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Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
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UTC quote
Just walk away buddy and charge it to the game. Don't think that's a GS frame and don't think a bodger would put holes in a floor of a GS frame. But who knows. Your knowledge about the different frames and other essentials just isn't there. There are very small things only noticed when you've owned or worked on them. Don't know whats under that metal until you remove all the paint. The hole for the foot brake goes in the spline and there is no off the shelf "sheet metal" for that.

Give up the ghost bra. There are too many options out there to think you'll come out better rebuilding that thing. Get a P, go from there, and save yourself the headache. You're not the first to buy a bodge and realize what you have afterwards.

Put the pictures back up or stop asking questions about.

Good luck!
@swiss1939 avatar
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Ossessionato
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@swiss1939 avatar
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
The wonderful thing about vintage scooters are that they can be whatever you want them to be. Piaggio made so many makes and models that who can be sure what you have. If you're thinking you have a GS, then you probably do. Don't let us embarrass you. Stand strong to your guns on this one! It sounds like your scooter is in fantastic condition since you didn't find that much body filler and rust on it. It also sound like the rear foot brake lever has been upgraded to something more modern, which can't be too bad of a thing. Since you mentioned that there might be a 200cc engine in it, it just might. Lots of things could have happened to the original engine at some point, and it may have been swapped out to something newer and more powerful. I'm guessing that might be the case because you scooter sounds like it might be much nicer looking in person, than how you've described it here. I wouldn't worry about the missing VIN number. Just get some metal stamps and punch in a new VIN that would be easy to remember. You could probably modify a Stella gas tank to fit in the frame. It would save you a few dollars, and you'd have a fuel sending unit as a bonus.
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'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Yeah, plus 1! Who knows what you really have, Vader's Super started out as a "bodge" but it was secretly resurrected by the old master hisself and few knew. Especially if they ever rode it.

Another buddy rides a half decent Viet Nam Sprint all the time & just replaces stuff as it breaks. Nobody cares if they don't know. Just peel it back and see what YOU got.


Let's see NEW pics of yours, especially anything that's bothering you.
OP
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Thanks. One thing is for sure, I'll never, never, never give up. It's never going to be original, right, but it can be a pretty cool "outlaw" Vespa, IMO. I'm very deep into Porsche 911 and 356, and have built and restored quite a few of those, so a Vespa doesn't scare me a bit. I grew up in Italy, so there is also a nostalgic element in these for me.

Having said all that, I really don't know enough yet to be dangerous, so I'll never be embarrassed here or anywhere.

A few questions:

1. Does anyone know what the VLX2 motor is? How can I tell what it is?

2. What is the correct type(s) and font(s) for the VIN stamps and where can I buy them?

3. Is there a snooty snobby element of purists in the Vespa community for originality and correctness? There is in the Porsche community, but there is also a strong outlaw community, making yours what was once original or modified. I sit somewhere in the middle with one time capsule and one former race car. Both cool to me.

I'll post pictures as soon as I have the time.

Thanks!
@swiss1939 avatar
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Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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@swiss1939 avatar
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UTC quote
Not sure which size lettering and numbers are correct for frame but they are here and also available on eBay. Numbers letters and Star. Piaggio logo not available anywhere for obvious reasons.

https://sip-scootershop.com/main/base/Results.aspx?t=Punch&d=(sco,ape,lam,old,px,sma,max,atv,mot)&s=2768284967b0493283ba0205c2516468&a=1&sp=0399d9bfe6df49f5a8fff46fab427cdf&sort=0

EDIT: maybe piaggio logo is available for an arm and a leg.
https://restostamps.com/collections/vespa-stamps
⚠️ Last edited by swiss1939 on UTC; edited 1 time
@v_oodoo avatar
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UTC quote
Cool. Thanks. Anyone tell me about the VNX2 motor, please?
@pemkt avatar
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Hooked
1960 Series 2 Lambretta, 1962ish API series 2 Lambretta, 1974 Vespa Super 150, 1978 Rally 200, 1965 Allstate VNB, 1980 P200e
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Hooked
@pemkt avatar
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UTC quote
VNX = PX125 motor.
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UTC quote
in other words a 3 port "small block" when you're shopping ~177 kits.
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
Re: Dunno...
OSoleMio wrote:
This could be interesting. I really don't know what it is. Definitely better in person than in pictures. Took it completely apart. Little to no rust (only surface). Not a lot of bondo on most of it. Looks like it has some skim bondo in a couple of parts, but minimal.

Looking on the backside of any bodywork, it is straight, no welds, nothing obviously strange in the sheet metal. Like the front fender is perfect underneath, as are the cowls.

The foot brake setup looks like it was added later (the hole isn't factory, and only 2 of the three mounting posts are used). So I think this might be a G.S. frame that was messed with. Can't see the VIN prefix numbers/letters yet.

I'd like to restore it back to stock. Where would I get the sheet metal parts for the rear brake pedal setup? Where would I find a G.S. gas tank? Maybe a junk, too-far-gone GS frame? No idea where to even look for that.

The engine is wrong, yes, and I have no idea what it it. Can anyone tell me what VNX2 is? I don't know if it's 125cc or 150cc (or even 200cc). How can I tell?

Thanks all.
no. just... no. you truly don't know what you're getting yourself into.

making it run and riding it around for S&G's yeah whatever. but restoring that franken-bike is a fools errand.

wanna change my mind? have the frame blasted so you can actually see the condition of it and see if it's got the right numbers and make sure that they haven't been restamped or stitched in. and even then you've got the floor to deal with.

barring all that, on a resto you're gonna have to find a motor, fork, seat and speedo at minimum. that there's an easy 3K

shit at that point you're half way to that 6K GS on scoot.net and that one you *know* is real deal.

that's just my $.02 worth

-g
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UTC quote
OK, but throwing a couple of hundred at it shouldn't wreck anybody and could be fun and certainly instructive to curious ppl who can say when they learn what they have:

"Thanks. One thing is for sure, I'll never, never, never give up. It's never going to be original, right, but it can be a pretty cool "outlaw" Vespa, IMO. I'm very deep into Porsche 911 and 356, and have built and restored quite a few of those, so a Vespa doesn't scare me a bit. I grew up in Italy, so there is also a nostalgic element in these for me."
@greasy125 avatar
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
OSoleMio wrote:
Thanks. One thing is for sure, I'll never, never, never give up. It's never going to be original, right, but it can be a pretty cool "outlaw" Vespa, IMO. I'm very deep into Porsche 911 and 356, and have built and restored quite a few of those, so a Vespa doesn't scare me a bit. I grew up in Italy, so there is also a nostalgic element in these for me.

Having said all that, I really don't know enough yet to be dangerous, so I'll never be embarrassed here or anywhere.

A few questions:

1. Does anyone know what the VLX2 motor is? How can I tell what it is?

2. What is the correct type(s) and font(s) for the VIN stamps and where can I buy them?

3. Is there a snooty snobby element of purists in the Vespa community for originality and correctness? There is in the Porsche community, but there is also a strong outlaw community, making yours what was once original or modified. I sit somewhere in the middle with one time capsule and one former race car. Both cool to me.

I'll post pictures as soon as I have the time.

Thanks!
you should give up on this one. seriously. i mean, if you wanna make it run and ride and bop around town, whatever. but this bike is not a restoration candidate in any sense of the word. sorry to be debbie downer on that.

1- is it a VNX or a VLX you're giving contradicting info. either way both are px series. so it's 125/150

2- why do you need a vin stamp? your bike should already have a vin. if it doesn't that's problematic. and if you can't find one, then that's kind of a big deal too. and if you're gonna punch a vin on your bike, well that's, ummm... questionable? illegal? odd?

3- yes.

-g
@swiss1939 avatar
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P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110
Location: Staten Island, NY
UTC quote
I agree #2 may be questionable.. but when is it not? For example, my p200 frame was rusted right across the frame stamp. My attempts to reveal from the rust without abrasive materials didn't work so a light usage of 0000 steel wool did it. Now the frame stamp is visible and correct but is very light and difficult to read due to rust pitting and my attempts to remove the rust. Is it now acceptable to restamp? If not, then how do you deal with that when necessary?
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I agree #2 may be questionable.. but when is it not? For example, my p200 frame was rusted right across the frame stamp. My attempts to reveal from the rust without abrasive materials didn't work so a light usage of 0000 steel wool did it. Now the frame stamp is visible and correct but is very light and difficult to read due to rust pitting and my attempts to remove the rust. Is it now acceptable to restamp? If not, then how do you deal with that when necessary?
yeah, i'd restamp that because it's a known entity. P2 american market, you have papers for it.

now the other situation, that's just... odd... and quite frankly a little shady to me.

-g
@rowdyc avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
 
Molto Verboso
@rowdyc avatar
GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1346
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
UTC quote
Now that you've mentioned you spend money or Porsches and you grew up in Italy, I've changed my mind and think you're perfect for that thing.

Since your into Porsches, has anyone bought a Porsche but after talking with someone or a group that know those cars well, realized they bought a Yugo with a replica Porsche body kit? Did they tell him he would be safe? Did they tell him to rebuild or fix it to run?

C'mon Greasy, get with the program. We see someone like this come along only once in a while and you want to rain on his parade. You can see he has the dough and time to do this, so let him have fun with it. It's not like you or me are liable if something happens to him.

Go for it. Dont sandblast and maybe get disappointed. Get it running and buy go fast parts. Treat it like an original GS and add your own style to. Making sure it looks good to you is what really counts. Stamp what ever vin number you think matches with what's on scooter help. If it stops ok, don't worry about the placement of the floor brakes. The difference adds character and makes it your own.

I really want to see how this comes out. Dont listen to anyone that's telling you not to do this. Regardless of the decades of experience they have in this hobby, they don't know your will and determination.

Good luck!
UTC

Hooked
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 129
Location: Eureka, Ca
 
Hooked
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 129
Location: Eureka, Ca
UTC quote
rowdyc wrote:
Now that you've mentioned you spend money or Porsches and you grew up in Italy, I've changed my mind and think you're perfect for that thing.

Since your into Porsches, has anyone bought a Porsche but after talking with someone or a group that know those cars well, realized they bought a Yugo with a replica Porsche body kit? Did they tell him he would be safe? Did they tell him to rebuild or fix it to run?

C'mon Greasy, get with the program. We see someone like this come along only once in a while and you want to rain on his parade. You can see he has the dough and time to do this, so let him have fun with it. It's not like you or me are liable if something happens to him.

Go for it. Dont sandblast and maybe get disappointed. Get it running and buy go fast parts. Treat it like an original GS and add your own style to. Making sure it looks good to you is what really counts. Stamp what ever vin number you think matches with what's on scooter help. If it stops ok, don't worry about the placement of the floor brakes. The difference adds character and makes it your own.

I really want to see how this comes out. Dont listen to anyone that's telling you not to do this. Regardless of the decades of experience they have in this hobby, they don't know your will and determination.

Good luck!
This is the correct answer
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