Modern Vespa

I want to go ahead and order but cannot decide what would be best. Also struggling just to find a mechanic in my town that is available and works on Piaggio bikes.

Would love any feedback:

Pirelli Angel Scooter Tire 140/70-14 Rear 2771700

Pirelli - 1823000 - Diablo Scooter Rear Tire, 140/70-14

140/70-14 Michelin City Grip S-Rated Reinforced Rear Tire

Heidenau K66 140/70 - 14 68S Tubeless Rear Tyre (these look the coolest)

Personally I've run the Diablo at 150/70 for the past 5k miles and it's worn
very well. Still have at least 5k off tread to go. However, I should note that my commute to work is very, VERY, short. So depending on your driving needs, you may want to look into the ratings for a variety of tires. I've always used a variety of websites for information. JPcycles . com, (formerly motorcyclesuperstore) is a good place to look, as is Cyclegear . com. This is for reviews at least, and IF you want to purchase somewhere else, at least you're informed about the cost expectations. As a side note, just don't buy off ebay. I did that once, and the tire was a imperfection reject by Micheline. I would only buy from reputable sources ever again. Don't just buy for looks, aim for quality.
As for places to get serviced, I feel ya. I just did my first real work on the bike because my dealer stopped working on MP3s, even though I bought it there. Hopefully I don't ever need serious engine work.

"... because my dealer stopped working on MP3's although I bought it there..."!
Why am I not surprised!

You should try a Car Tire...

Keith,
Marietta, GA

Are they a Piaggio dealership? Because I would be amazed if they could do that with their franchise agreement with Piaggio.

I know when I worked at the dealership we could not refuse to server a model vehicle because it was hard to fix.

Very True...
I had a MP3/250 with an Electrical Problem.
The Dealer had no clue how to fix it, and they worked with Piaggio for about 4 months, until they resolved. I had other bikes to ride, so I didn't have a problem with that. But I was "Screwed" on the Bill with all the hours charged as they "Learned" on my billable time. This Dealer is now closed...

Keith,
Marietta, GA

Here is a example of a GREAT dealership.
My wife moved to Va from NJ had an 89 Grand Prix. The dealership replaced the manifold gaskets for a leak and she picked the car up and everything was fine. Next day she had a coolant leak.
Well there was an issue where when the manifold was removed two head bolts would break causing the leak. GM did not cover this as a recall on under any program. The dealership picked up the cost of removing the heads, installing new gaskets and head bolts and did everything NO Charge.

Fortunately the one shop in town I trust got back to me. I am thinking of going with the City Grip thats what is currently on the bike. Curious about the "car tire" suggestion lol.

Next I need to find the install kit for the Givi windshield that came with the bike un-attached. That has proven to be difficult as well.

I have some weird "stuttering" at low RPM and was told it might be my belt needing to be cleaned. Any thoughts on this?

So has anyone tried a "darkside" car tire?

My 400ie came to me with a low mileage 5 year old Pirelli on the back and it's almost used up after 2000miles. Disappointing.

Could be just old rubber wearing quicker than normal? Or something else?

Inclined to replace it in the spring with a City Grip to match the fronts.

For the stutter try a few full throttle take offs.

Yup. Not the belt stuttering. It's the clutch. Work it harder or clean it out if you're so inclined. If you don't already have a "fuzzy washer" installed, I highly recommend it. Makes a world of difference in reducing the low speed stutter.

I can speak from a MP3/250 Car Tire perspective.
I have over 16K Miles on my Rear, and it looks to show very little wear.
You just have to make sure you keep the air pressure in check to get adequate Tire wall flex. Much smoother ride, and great if you suffer from back problems on long rides.

I tried unsuccessfully to get a Car Tire to mount on my MP3/500 Rim, but I blame the fact I purchase the wrong size Car Tire. I will make another attempt to mount a Car Tire on my next change.

On my MP3/250 with a 12" Rim, using a Mini-Cooper Tire, the Bead popped easily. On the MP3/500 14" Rim is requires some extra effort to get it to Seat. Hopefully someone who has had success will comment, but I like the Ride... I have many friends with Harley Bikes that run Car Tires.

Here is a past post on the topic, that may help you.
Recommended darkside tire for 400


Keith,
Marietta, GA

Bridgestone Battlax. Great tire. Very sticky. Not great in the rain. Hope this helps.

Confirms why I threw away a set of Battlax that my sport bike came with years ago. They were terrifying whenever the weather turned wet. Switched to Metzelers and Michelins and never looked back.

The rubber is absolutely the most bang for the buck item you'll spend your money on. Don't skimp.

Pirelli Angel Scooter!

Sticks to dry, wet and cold roads and handles great as well. Had them on my 50cc last winter, now on my MP3. Very happy with them.



Avoid the Heidenau K66. The K66 LT's that I tried were very sticky, but they turned the MP3 into some kind of a quad bike - these tyres go into "car steering mode" as soon as you start leaning - felt really weird..

Avoid anything Michelin. Literally every Michelin tyre I've tried was sticky enough at first, but lost its stickyness after one to three years - way before the threads wore out in every case. Their compounds stick for a while, after which they only suck.

WEB-Tech
Nope, they are not a Piaggio specific dealer. It's actually a BMW dealership primarily with a real stake in the Vespa scooter line-up. Officially licensed dealership with trained technicians to service the bikes. They took care of my
MP3 for a long time, but apparently since they no longer want to sell the model there is not feeling about loyalty to repair the ones they did sell. Oh well, it just made me get some courage to do my own maintenance with forum help.

I find quite the opposite.

My front pair of factory mounted Michelin City Grips were just replaced about a week ago after having used them for 22K kms. The rear lasted 20k kms. They lasted for nearly 4.5 years riding through rain, snow, mud.

I did observe that upon reaching the wear bar indicators wear accelerated tremendously.

I have used Pirellis on other bikes in the past and they were done after riding about 10K kms . . . sometimes even earlier.

Well, for you, lifespan is obviously an important factor.

To me, grip in wet weather is the only important factor.

One can ride any tyre in any kind of weather. The fact that one doesn't crash doesn't prove those tyres are any good. It merely indicates that one is possibly a very skilled rider, a very careful rider, or just a lucky one.

I practice braking hard quite often and under all kinds of circumstances. With some Michelins I've been able to lock the front brake even on dry and clean roads (!), which to me is completely unacceptable.

Actually, lifespan is not that important to me either. I am simply surprised they lasted as long as they did considering the heft of a MP3.

To me grip is very important as well, but I have never experienced brake lockup on the Michelins but since mine has ABS there should never be any lockup.

Granted, I am not a aggressive rider as there is no point to be one on a barge like a MP3. It's just a tool to get me from A to B since owning a car in Europe has become utter hell with all the eco garbage. And I am not spending good money on a electric car until they can get recharging down to 5 minutes or less as we do with gasoline.

However, while I bought the MP3 to essentially do grocery runs it has effectively managed to become my primary driver leaving my 2 cars parked most of the time.

Would I buy another MP3? Unlikely, considering the prices keep climbing, and the MP3 service is pretty expensive if you depend on the dealer for everything. Luckily I do everything myself so I am not that popular with the dealers. My heart is set on the current gen Honda Goldwing with DCT transmission as my next bike when the time comes.

If you just jab the front brakes and have a strong grip, anyone can lock up fronts on any tire. And if your tires are lasting up to three years, you aren't really riding that scooter a lot.

I can say from probably over 60,000 miles of riding including some rather enjoyable, torrential rains, Michelin City Grips do just fine in the rain.

I know how to brake, thanks. Because I regularly practice braking I notice the difference between different tyres very soon.

No tyre lasts for three years on my scoots. I bought a second hand MP3 with three year old city grips on it, and they were terrible. Not unexpected, since I had some experience with these tyres on previous bikes.

Replaced the fronts with Heidenau K66, later with Pirelli Diablos, and recently with Pirelli Angel Scoots - all great tyres grip-wise. But at the time I replaced the rear with a new City Grip because I was in a hurry to fix the bike and couldn't get anything else soon enough. This Michelin lost its grip in the wet after one and a half year already - and since this was not my only bike at the time, I only did 8000km / 5000 miles on it. The threads were still good for another few thousands of miles, but the rubber had somehow hardened to a degree I didn't feel safe to ride anymore.

With any decent set of tyres on a dry and clean road, a bike like the MP3 lifts its rear wheel sooner than locking the front wheels. With three year old city grips on the front, braking this hard just wasn't possible anymore. A big fail in my book...

Safe to say that explains it all.

That is not normal riding behavior, and is borderline reckless riding.

If you're into doing stoppies and wheelies, go do it on the racetrack and not on the street. Pretty sure the local police wouldn't condone your driving style either.

It's also not my normal driving behaviour.

Don't worry, I only do this on country roads when there's no traffic.

And, apart from not being reckless when done with caution, it's even _wise_ to practice hard braking in safe situations, although you need to be careful not to exceed your own skills of course.

Even more so, if I didn't try these kind of things every now and then, I wouldn't have known I was riding on dangerous tyres.

It's better to find out your tyres suck by trying, than to find out when you need them 8)

Different strokes for different folks, but if you keep up the basic service such as regular brake fluid flushes and replace pads along with tires before they're fully worn out then you never need to do any of these antics unless you don't trust your own rig.

I'd be more interested to see how many kms/miles you squeeze out of those Pirelli Angel tires.

I still have a couple of Metzeler (a Pirelli subsidiary) complete sets in storage ready to be installed. I'm interested to see how those will pan out.

While you may not like Michelin, one thing is for sure. When it comes to car tires, nobody beats Michelin. After all, there is a reason why they are used by more manufacturers of all kinds of transportation (planes, bikes, cars, etc.) than any other brand in the world.

It's not only about trusting your own rig, but also about trusting your own skills.

Without practice you will never develop or keep critical skills like braking hard in an emergency situation.

Am I correct, (since you're from belgium) in assuming you only have a car license, just bought an MP3 and started riding, without any training or other relevant experience? (not meant as a personal attack, just curious about the origins of your ideas on this subject) I think you'll be pleased with those Metzelers.

And for Michelin car tyres, my only experience with them was in 1997 or thereabouts. The only thing I remember was their harsh ride.

The fact that Michelin tyres are OEM for lots of vehicles means they're just good and cheap enough to ship a product with, not that they're anything special. Also, I don't think their tyres for aircraft would be even remotely comparable to their car or scooter tyres, quality-wise.

That would a very wrong assumption on your part. I have a full class A motorcycle and a class G (heavy equipment) license, and I have been riding as far back as 1982.

But riding experience demands time, years, even decades to master and not just the occassional emergency maneuver.

When I was young, I felt invincable and could handle anything at any time as we all do at that age without experience. BUT, that one motorcycle accident changed my thinking forever. On that day, if this cat had 9 lives I used up 8 and managed to live to tell about it although my body reminds me daily with pain and suffering. Since then, I am aware and vigilant that my 275kg bike stands no chance against a car that weighs up to almost 10 times that much.

As I stated in this thread, or another a few days ago, the MP3 was a purchase with the intent of being a little errand runner but it has managed to become a daily driver since car ownership in Europe has become utter hell with all the eco bullcrap that is being forced down people's throats.

But my heart is really set on getting a current gen Honda Goldwing with dual clutch transmission.

The MP3, while a OK cityrunner, just isn't a proper touring machine. I sometimes go on tours to France with a couple of friends who have Hondas and BMWs, and the undersized fuel tank and undersized engine is really getting old on those days. The best improvement were the Bitubo adjustable shocks. They helped tremendously being able to do a 500km journey in 1 day.

I stand corrected on the license/experience thing. Never assume...

Are those Bitubo shocks on the front or at the rear?

One of my biggest gripes with the MP3 are the front shocks. Maybe the rear shocks don't bother me as much since I'm not really tall or heavy. Or maybe the front shocks are so bad I don't notice how bad the rear shocks are

The Bitubos are the rear ones. I am not aware of any aftermarket or uprated front units, but the rears were always a problem for me with them frequently bottoming out.

They are the genuine Piaggio accessory ones, but made by Bitubo. As of a few days ago, I got a new pair under warranty as I blew out one of the shocks and oil was leaking out due to a bad shaft seal.

They're overpriced at the official list price of around 750 Euro, but I got them through a special promo at 450.

And for once, Piaggio was really proactive and sent the new set out without requiring any upfront payment.

The stock rear shocks are a joke and Piaggio should be ashamed to use such junk on a bike that costs over 10K new these days.

I am in the same camp on practicing your skills as a rider. Also knowing the very limits of your scooter as well. Occasional testing of you and your scoot should be done when clear and no possible traffic around. Same goes for swerving techniques. those as well should be practiced. Having the skills in an emergency situation can save your skin. You don't have time to think well I could do this of I could do that , nope sorry too late, you have to react and having those skills are essential.

Never take for granted your bike is always perfect each and every time you start it and go for a ride.

I am with you on michelin city grip. took one off my mp3 with 80% tread left. slipped in corners in the dry. the compound is excellent when new. but dries out with age. to the point its a dangerous tire.

Been saying for 4yrs now the rears are total junk ,if your wanting new replacements that are made and work then either Hagons for the economy side or if your feeling flush then Ikon. If your on a tight budget then buy a pair of used Konis, strip and refill and fit lighter springs if needed like i did.Although it may work out the same price as the hagons. Fronts are as bad as the rears but theres alot more to replacing them with a alternative without major work , Hagons were supposed to be working on a replacement but i don't think anything going to happen in the near future. I did think that the o/e piaggio front shocks had been altered as the part number has changed and the front spring looks different but wheather it's any better than it was is anyones guess.

Thanks to this discussion thread, I just had Pirelli Angel Scooter Tire 140/70-14 mounted on the rear, replacing the original Michelin City Grips.
The Michelin's wore out too fast for my liking.
The Pirelli's ride and corner much better than the City Grips.

FYI,
The local scooter shop wanted $100 to mount the tire on my wheel.
The local motorcycle shop was nice enough to offer to mount the tire on my wheel (they don't work on 'scooters') for $35.
CycleGear (where I purchased the tire) would mount the tire for $25. First Come First Serve.
My local auto tire shop was willing to try it and mounted/balanced for $15 cash while I waited (and was OK with the $12 I had in my wallet)

BR,
Steve

Wow $100 that's huge.