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I pressed the 2 new bearings and the slotted end piece on the new shaft using a vise and some sockets.

I can't tighten the impeller on the shaft because the pressed on slotted piece turns on the shaft. It's not a very tight fit and I can pull it off with my fingers. Should heat be used when pressing the slotted piece on the shaft for a tighter fit?

Some differences with the impellers also. Old impeller has a Piaggio symbol on the back, new one has nothing. Brass nut is taller on the new one also.

Is this a common problem?
New left, old right
New left, old right
New left, old right
New left, old right
New left, old right
New left, old right
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I don't know if it's common but the same thing happened to me. Cheap aftermarket parts with zero quality control are probably to blame..

Contact the vendor for a refund and buy another kit from another source. You might be able to just move the bearings onto the old parts if they're not too crunchy and call it a day.

Be glad that you caught it in time!
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The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
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GotMojo wrote:
Be glad that you caught it in time!
I caught it after the shaft and bearings and two seals were pressed into the water pump housing.
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S.Ro wrote:
GotMojo wrote:
Be glad that you caught it in time!
I caught it after the shaft and bearings and two seals were pressed into the water pump housing.
You caught it before you rode off into the sunset and grenaded your engine.

You caught it in time.
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Re: Water pump rebuid kit problem
S.Ro wrote:
I pressed the 2 new bearings and the slotted end piece on the new shaft using a vise and some sockets.

I can't tighten the impeller on the shaft because the pressed on slotted piece turns on the shaft. It's not a very tight fit and I can pull it off with my fingers. Should heat be used when pressing the slotted piece on the shaft for a tighter fit?

Some differences with the impellers also. Old impeller has a Piaggio symbol on the back, new one has nothing. Brass nut is taller on the new one also.

Is this a common problem?
Sure, if you try to install it with a vise and sockets. You need a press, and to put it together correctly. The shaft is pressed down through the bearings and pressed into the slotted piece in one fell swoop, so to speak. That's what you install in the housing. The odds are that you're not getting 12 tons of pressure when you're trying to stick the slotted piece on the end of the shaft once you've got it installed in the housing. .
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12 ton press? I can push and pull the water pump drive boss off and on with my fingers. Will pushing it on harder make it stick better? Is it seated all the way in my pic? Maybe a millimeter of the shaft is exposed.
10:27:47am
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It needs to be pressed on with a press. You are supposed to put it on the bottom of the stack, then the bearings, and press the shaft down through all three of them, then install the part as a whole. It sounds like you tried to stick it on the shaft after you'd installed the bearings in the cover.
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S.Ro wrote:
The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
return it for a full refund. those are cheap aftermarket parts you got and order from a vespa dealer the correct parts.

I recommend AF! racing and Scooterwest They both are excellent in their service and parts.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=96603&sku=AF1-8447595&description=OEM+Vespa+Water+Pump+Rebuild+Kit
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Assuming the bearings are in the correct position, are you saying the last part "drops" onto the shaft rather than require pressing force? As in a sloppy fit?
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old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
return it for a full refund. those are cheap aftermarket parts you got and order from a vespa dealer the correct parts.

I recommend AF! racing and Scooterwest They both are excellent in their service and parts.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=96603&sku=AF1-8447595&description=OEM+Vespa+Water+Pump+Rebuild+Kit
They are aftermarket parts? Vendor says they are OEM. Luckily my bearings are still in good shape and will reuse the shaft and bearings. Can't return it as I'm using the o-ring and 2 seals. Lesson learned.
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Kantuckid wrote:
Assuming the bearings are in the correct position, are you saying the last part "drops" onto the shaft rather than require pressing force? As in a sloppy fit?
Yes. Bearings are a nice tight fit on the shaft but the slotted end piece I can pull and push off with my fingers.
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S.Ro wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
return it for a full refund. those are cheap aftermarket parts you got and order from a vespa dealer the correct parts.

I recommend AF! racing and Scooterwest They both are excellent in their service and parts.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=96603&sku=AF1-8447595&description=OEM+Vespa+Water+Pump+Rebuild+Kit
They are aftermarket parts? Vendor says they are OEM. Luckily my bearings are still in good shape and will reuse the shaft and bearings. Can't return it as I'm using the o-ring and 2 seals. Lesson learned.
well its obvious that vendor is a liar and a shame, as those are NOT OEM parts. Sorry you have to deal with crap like that.
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old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
return it for a full refund. those are cheap aftermarket parts you got and order from a vespa dealer the correct parts.

I recommend AF! racing and Scooterwest They both are excellent in their service and parts.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=96603&sku=AF1-8447595&description=OEM+Vespa+Water+Pump+Rebuild+Kit
They are aftermarket parts? Vendor says they are OEM. Luckily my bearings are still in good shape and will reuse the shaft and bearings. Can't return it as I'm using the o-ring and 2 seals. Lesson learned.
well its obvious that vendor is a liar and a shame, as those are NOT OEM parts. Sorry you have to deal with crap like that.
Looking at that Af1 link you posted and it doesn't come with the slotted piece (water pump drive boss)?

Description says...

Kit includes:

Water Pump Shaft w/Bearings
Water Pump Drive Spring
Water Pump Cover O-ring
Water Pump Impeller
Water Pump Mechanical Seal
Water Pump Seal

And the pic doesn't show it either...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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S.Ro wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
old as dirt wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
The vendor's description says "kit components are made using OEM parts" and "the most complete OEM water pump repair kit for Vespa 250"

That's just fancy advertising I guess? I thought I was getting the real thing?
return it for a full refund. those are cheap aftermarket parts you got and order from a vespa dealer the correct parts.

I recommend AF! racing and Scooterwest They both are excellent in their service and parts.
https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=96603&sku=AF1-8447595&description=OEM+Vespa+Water+Pump+Rebuild+Kit
They are aftermarket parts? Vendor says they are OEM. Luckily my bearings are still in good shape and will reuse the shaft and bearings. Can't return it as I'm using the o-ring and 2 seals. Lesson learned.
well its obvious that vendor is a liar and a shame, as those are NOT OEM parts. Sorry you have to deal with crap like that.
Looking at that Af1 link you posted and it doesn't come with the slotted piece (water pump drive boss)?

Description says...

Kit includes:

Water Pump Shaft w/Bearings
Water Pump Drive Spring
Water Pump Cover O-ring
Water Pump Impeller
Water Pump Mechanical Seal
Water Pump Seal

And the pic doesn't show it either...
you should reuse the slotted piece unless its damaged in someway. all the other parts are the wear parts to replace.
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If the boss has a hole all the way through, you can push the boss off the old shaft and see if it will press tightly on the new shaft. Use the socket and a bolt that is just smaller than the hole in the boss. Nerd emoticon

Being a machinist, I don't believe that using a vice as a press will alter a press fit tolerance. A vice is just a little less convenient than a press. If you don't have a fist on the end of your dick, you may need help turning the handle while holding 3 separate pieces in place.

The only way to know if the shaft and the boss has the correct fit, is to measure them with a small hole gauge and micrometer.

Good luck.
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I always buy the whole housing - only a bit more cash than buying the kit, and a whole lot less hassle! Plus you know you're getting real OEM parts.
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breaknwind wrote:
If you don't have a fist on the end of your dick, you may need help turning the handle while holding 3 separate pieces in place.
You don't need to hold the three pieces once you have pressure on them. That way you can stand as far away as possible and turn your head so you don't catch something in your teeth if it goes kablooey .
Pressing the bearings on took force.
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jimc wrote:
I always buy the whole housing - only a bit more cash than buying the kit, and a whole lot less hassle! Plus you know you're getting real OEM parts.
I've learned my lesson! I wish I would have meet you 2 weeks ago. Would've saved me some hassle.
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Motovista wrote:
It needs to be pressed on with a press. You are supposed to put it on the bottom of the stack, then the bearings, and press the shaft down through all three of them, then install the part as a whole. It sounds like you tried to stick it on the shaft after you'd installed the bearings in the cover.
The results would be the same. The tolerances aren't right. It's a bad part or parts.

The kit from Scooterwest did not have this problem.
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ScooterWest says the bearings and water pump drive boss are already pressed on the shaft. Is that true? Does the back of the impeller have a Piaggio symbol and PA66 marking?

https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-water-pump-overhaul-kit-vespa-gts-8447595-kit.html
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Went and recreated my technique and took a pic. 8mm deep socket on the threaded end of the shaft and a 15mm socket on the water pump drive boss. Cranked the vise as tight as I can. It doesn't make a differance. When I take the assembly out I can pull the water pump drive boss off the shaft with my fingers.
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GotMojo wrote:
Motovista wrote:
It needs to be pressed on with a press. You are supposed to put it on the bottom of the stack, then the bearings, and press the shaft down through all three of them, then install the part as a whole. It sounds like you tried to stick it on the shaft after you'd installed the bearings in the cover.
The results would be the same. The tolerances aren't right. It's a bad part or parts.

The kit from Scooterwest did not have this problem.
That's because they are pressing the parts together for you, and eliminating one of the most difficult steps, so you're not trying to do it yourself without proper tools or experience. You do have to press the shaft straight down into the bushing for it to work properly, and that's almost impossible without a press.
You're basing your statements solely on your own experience doing this once, and then buying a kit that someone else had partially assembled. These kits are from Italy, are assembled with OEM and OEM quality parts, and are sold all over Europe and the world. I know for a fact that most of the parts that you installed both times came from the same manufacturers.
Even our kits for Kymco scooters come out of Italy, but they source parts in Taiwan, for the most part. Over the years, we've sold over 200 kits for the Vespa GTS alone, and the company that we get them from has sold tens of thousands, for a lot of different makes and models. You can purchase them on Ebay and Amazon in every country in the EU.
If shops that purchase them from us on a regular basis and have the tools to do it correctly have problems like this, there's a concern, and there's a bigger problem for the company we get them from.
We sell water pump repair kits for most major brands of scooters, and no matter the make or model, people who've never done this before and don't know how to do it right or have access to a shop press, are the ones who have problems. If a shop buys it, that's the lasts we hear about it.
Personally, if it's my bike, I do what JimC said.
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Motovista wrote:
That's because they are pressing the parts together for you, and eliminating one of the most difficult steps, so you're not trying to do it yourself without proper tools or experience. You do have to press the shaft straight down into the bushing for it to work properly, and that's almost impossible without a press.
You're way off base here. I have put together a few of these (and mangled a few in the process) so I know how it's supposed to be done. None of the kits I bought were pre-assembled. I pressed them on with a setup similar to S.Ro's photo. The only kit that DID NOT WORK was the one supplied by you.

It's not rocket science. It's a pretty straightforward interference kit. It either stays put when you press them or it doesn't. When the tolerances aren't right or the material is inferior, the cap doesn't stay on.
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GotMojo wrote:
Motovista wrote:
That's because they are pressing the parts together for you, and eliminating one of the most difficult steps, so you're not trying to do it yourself without proper tools or experience. You do have to press the shaft straight down into the bushing for it to work properly, and that's almost impossible without a press.
You're way off base here. I have put together a few of these (and mangled a few in the process) so I know how it's supposed to be done. None of the kits I bought were pre-assembled. I pressed them on with a setup similar to S.Ro's photo. The only kit that DID NOT WORK was the one supplied by you.

It's not rocket science. It's a pretty straightforward interference kit. It either stays put when you press them or it doesn't. When the tolerances aren't right or the material is inferior, the cap doesn't stay on.
BINGO.
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Out of curiosity, what if the old shaft was at high limit of tolerance, and when the keyed drive was pressed on, it deformed (plastically). Then, when removed from the original shaft, and installed on the new shaft (presumably at low limit on diameter) there is no interference fit to press on?

Just curious.

Also, if this is the case, what about mashing the keyed piece in a vice or suchlike, to slightly deform it out of round, then press on the shaft?

Nerd emoticon
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Madison Sully wrote:
Out of curiosity, what if the old shaft was at high limit of tolerance, and when the keyed drive was pressed on, it deformed (plastically). Then, when removed from the original shaft, and installed on the new shaft
Nerd emoticon
The kit I bought came with a new keyed drive. New on the left.
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Re: Water pump rebuid kit problem
Curiously enough, I had to revisit this tonight (unrelated to the OP's problem -- I'm rebuilding an engine).

I took a look at some of the shafts I had lying around and spotted something that might explain everything.

The shaft that has the darker metal is the "defective" one. The uniform gray-ish one is from the scooterwest kit. I had just removed it prior to replacing the bearings which is why it looks a little beat up.

Note 2 things:

1. The band at the end of the shaft looks like its prepared differently, almost as if its been ground down a hair

2. The end of the shaft has a hole in one and not the other. I suspect that the OEM tool peens the end of the shaft and widens it slightly. This would effectively lock it in place.

OK, 3 things...

3. They are CLEARLY different and were produced by different sources. Usually not a big deal if they're both 'OEM'. I betcha one is and the other isn't in my case.

I made sure that I gave it a good whack with a pointy punch after I pressed it all back together this time to be safe. It's nice and tight on this second go-around.
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the one with the hole in the end is precision lathe ground versus the other is just bar stock cut.

So the OEM one will have better tighter tolerances than the cheap aftermarket bar stock one.
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I noticed the same things as GotMojo. No dimple on the end and darker colour with the "aftermarket" one.

The dead give away is the back of the impeller. If it doesn't have the Piaggio symbol and PA66 it's probably "aftermarket". Does the ScooterWest one have it?

Old as dirt is right. The dimple on the end is the mark from the holding tool when in a lathe.
⬆️    About 1 year elapsed    ⬇️
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Now what?
So here I am with the exact same problem, but I didn't discover the drive piece was spinning on the shaft until after I had the mechanical seal for the water pump already installed. So the thing is completely assembled except the drive piece spins on the shaft.

I can't think of a way to take the new pieces out without damaging the bearings or the mechanical seal. If I did get everything out I could try to use the old shaft with the new bearings, but I imagine I'll ruin the bearings getting them off the new shaft.

Am I just plain screwed? Any bright ideas for a work around?
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Re: Now what?
wentwest wrote:
So here I am with the exact same problem, but I didn't discover the drive piece was spinning on the shaft until after I had the mechanical seal for the water pump already installed. So the thing is completely assembled except the drive piece spins on the shaft.

I can't think of a way to take the new pieces out without damaging the bearings or the . If I did get everything out I could try to use the old shaft with the new bearings, but I imagine I'll ruin the bearings getting them off the new shaft.

Am I just plain screwed? Any bright ideas for a work around?
OP here. That's when you find out that the drive piece spins on the shaft is after its pressed into the housing because you need to tighten the impeller on.

You did it wrong unless you used a 12 ton press like motovista says. /sarcastic

I pressed the new defective shaft and bearings out of the housing and threw them in the garbage and pressed in my used bearings, shaft.

I used the new mechanical seal 3 times. Pressed in, pressed out and pressed in again and it still works a year later.

If your old bearings still turn smooth on the old shaft I would reuse that part.

Were your parts from scooterparts?
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Yes, they were. They look exactly like yours. Very P***ed about it.
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Me too and this was a year ago.
I don't shop there anymore either.
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Re: Now what?
wentwest wrote:
Am I just plain screwed? Any bright ideas for a work around?
Take the impeller off, and use a press to push the shaft down onto the notched part. It will hold. You can do this while the shaft and bearings are still in the water pump housing.
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Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 221
Location: SFBay
UTC quote
I did put the shaft into the drive piece using a vise and an 8 mm socket over the threaded end. I pressed them together until the shaft was bottomed out, with the end of the shaft flush with the bottom of the notches in the drive piece. At that point it was also in contact with the face of the bearing as well.

Today I pressed the new shaft out of the drive piece, then pressed the bearings off the shaft. As an experiment I pushed the drive piece on to the shaft again and it went on easily, all the way, and still I can turn it on the shaft with my fingers. At this point I'm thinking about putting some Loctite between the shaft and the drive piece. Just a thought, but I'm getting pretty desperate.

I thought about using the old shaft with the new bearings, because the old bearings are crunchy, but the old shaft seems to be corroded into its bearings, at least beyond the strength of my vise and me.

Any other thoughts?
@gotmojo avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS 300, BV250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Hooked
@gotmojo avatar
GTS 300, BV250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 167
Location: Orange County, CA
UTC quote
wentwest wrote:
At this point I'm thinking about putting some Loctite between the shaft and the drive piece. Just a thought, but I'm getting pretty desperate.
Stop.

Take it to a shop or order a full replacement assembly. You are just going to damage your engine if you keep going.
UTC

Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 221
Location: SFBay
 
Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: UTC
Posts: 221
Location: SFBay
UTC quote
GotMojo wrote:
wentwest wrote:
At this point I'm thinking about putting some Loctite between the shaft and the drive piece. Just a thought, but I'm getting pretty desperate.
Stop.

Take it to a shop or order a full replacement assembly. You are just going to damage your engine if you keep going.
Would you? I've watched your work and I share your need to do the job. It's very hard to just give up.

If I do give up on this kit I'll order the kit from ScooterWest and that should work. Save a buck, spend two instead I guess.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9032
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9032
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
wentwest wrote:
I did put the shaft into the drive piece using a vise and an 8 mm socket over the threaded end. I pressed them together until the shaft was bottomed out, with the end of the shaft flush with the bottom of the notches in the drive piece. At that point it was also in contact with the face of the bearing as well.
A press and a vise are a little bit different. I've got a press and I'm going to put one together tonight, to see for myself if I can replicate what you have encountered.
OP
@sro avatar
UTC

Hooked
2009 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
 
Hooked
@sro avatar
2009 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
UTC quote
Return that junk and buy the complete housng. Do not use loc-tite.

$160. WATER PUMP & FLYWHEEL COVER... https://www.scooterwest.com/water-pump-flywheel-cover-300-super-gts-2007-8798315.html
or
$160. OEM Vespa Water Pump Assy/Flywheel Cover... https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Vespa-Water-Pump-AssyFlywheel-Cover-8798315

Or buy another rebuild kit from either of these.

$63. Complete Water Pump Overhaul Kit... https://www.scooterwest.com/complete-water-pump-overhaul-kit-vespa-gts-8447595-kit.html
or
$13.20.Water Pump Drive Key... https://www.af1racing.com/Water-Pump-Drive-Key-842389
and $79.32 OEM Vespa Water Pump Rebuild Kit... https://www.af1racing.com/OEM-Vespa-Water-Pump-Rebuild-Kit
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