Modern Vespa

If they're ice or snow on the road it's too cold. Otherwise, gear up and ride.

Just remembered something:

When I was around 17 years old, a 2-wheeler was my only mode of transportation.
I remember one time, it was about - 20 degrees Celsius, that is - 4 F, and I rode with a cheap open face helmet.

I had a selfmade balaclava, made by my mother , that covered most of the face, but of course left eyes without protection.

The cold breeze made my eyes water. When I stopped, I realized my one eyebrow was frozen so that I could not open my eye!

That was cold... and no, I would not do this again.

Speaking of GearUp. I'm getting my GU winterized Thursday though hoping for warmish weather. About a 2 hour ride in the early morning to the dealership. Winter tires and Barkbusters are going on. Already have the heated grips, power run to the bars for heated gear and the sidecar even has a Ural heated blanket. Wish there was an option for a skirt but they stopped making them a while ago.

I OVER-geared this morning! It was 41 Fahrenheit (4.44 Celsius) I had an undershirt tank top. Long sleeve shirt AND a thermal top. Plus the Jacket.

The legs I had the thermal pants and my riding pants. I also threw on my fleece neck warmer I got 2 years ago form the holiday gift exchange from another member on here.

It was a bit much. I could've done without the thermal top and neck warmer. I would've been fine. The full face makes a HUGE difference. I wasn't distracted as much as when I wore my 3/4 with the face shield.

Temperature wise, I've ridden as low as 8 degrees F. With heated gear 20F isn't an issue on my motorcycles. On the scooter, this is first cold season. With the Turbano skirt and muffs had a 18F ride recently and that was fine, though you want a neck wrap or balaclava for the space between jacket and helmet.

When I don't ride is if it is wet and below 40F. Too much chance of black ice. When that happens, I switch to the car.

Even though I live in Florida, I have started plenty of rides below freezing.

My carbureted Vespas have never failed to start.

And to answer the original question, 32 F, 0 C is about as low as I am willing to go, unless it is clear and warming. Then I will head out when it is a bit colder.

Bill

I hadn't followed up on this for a while....thanks to all of you for your perspectives!

Gertie, alas, had her carb drained, battery trickler installed, and now sits forlornly in the garage. I try to have an encouraging word on my way to the evil four-wheeled monster.

Meanwhile, we have freezing rain, ice, snow....the worst forecast possible is "wintry mix."

Do you mean too cold to ride in general, or too cold to ride really fast?

Depends on my gear and bike. My current record is from a few years ago on the GTS: 16 miles of 9F/-13C at speeds from 35-70mph. That was the day I decided that heated gear was worth the hassle of dealing with cables.
I regularly did 1-3 hour commutes in the 20's(F) on scooters, several times while it was snowing. It's nice to be able to tuck my feet in behind a leg shield and under a Termoscud.

My limit on motorcycles depends on my footwear and the peg clearance. If I have insulated boots that can fit under the shifter, I'll ride down to 21F/-6C. If it's my normal boots and just extra wool socks...the closer to freezing it gets, the more I'm tempted to take the cage.

I won't ride at anything under 64 F because I am a wuss and I like to be able to arrive somewhere an NOT be a complete block of ice.

The the lowest temp I ever experienced while riding was 48 F and it took me forever to warm up and there was NO JOY! in the riding. But that's me. I see dudes out in the snow in shorts in the winter so...

0h Belk! I am trying to picture you as a block of ice. I don't think you would get any service if you showed up as a block of ice. 32 degrees Fahrenheit is the freezing point! If there is no wind I ride up to about 40 degrees Fahrenheit for about 10 minutes just enough to go to the grocery store and back.

When I was working, I would ride all year. Heat was more of a problem than cold, but a few times I rode in the low 30's F. Now that I'm retired I won't ride under 50F, maybe not till the 60's.

It's been ridiculously soggy in the Northeast the last few days. Had to postpone my dental appointment in Staten Island (some 40 miles away), because, frankly, it sucks to ride in rain both ways even though conditions are otherwise relatively safe (temps in the mid-40s to low-50s). Le Wife was a bit under the weather, so she wasn't entirely up to driving me, and I didn't want her to at any rate.

Otherwise, this Winter, I've ridden:

- in temperatures down to 19°F, which actually prompted me to finally get handlebar muffs, which Really Work. (Having minor issues actuating turn signals with the left muff, but I'm sorting that out.)

Chronicles: Fingers Freeze, Melody Sneezes, Then Gets Muffed

- in temps down to 30°F with seriously high winds/gusts, which the muffs also address pretty well.

- in a flash snow squall: hate those, especially since snow tends to actually accumulate in those instances, as it did this time. No biggie, other than needing to wipe my helmet visor repeatedly. (Helps to have two sets of gloves with finger/thumb-mounted visor-wipers at the ready.)

So, no, low temperatures alone generally won't stop me from riding, although they might truncate the distance of my rides.

This thread and the one about Triumphs has me thinking about my own riding history. Except for the rust hazard, a scooter is MUCH more enjoyable in sub-freezing conditions. A set of Heidenau winter, 4-season, or at least slightly knobby tires, a skirt/Termoscud, a windshield, and a pair of handlebar muffs with either heated grips or gloves and you're good for just about anything!

The extra bonus is that you don't need your feet for anything more than holding you up when you stop, so you can wear big, clunky, thickly insulated boots and your feet are free to be outriggers if needed. There's no clutch to fuss with, so you can focus more on picking the best line through.

I used to have fun adventuring down my frozen and snow-covered dead-end road that rarely got plowed. I'd slowly (single digit speeds) pick my way along with my feet out, just in case. Once or twice, I'd spin out on ice trying to get back uphill to my house, but I found that, if I walked beside the Vespa and was very gentle with the throttle, the scoot could pull itself up the hill and then I'd ride the rest of the way back home.
Fun times. I wouldn't try that with any motorcycle or car I've owned.

I used to joke that, worst-case scenario, the scooters I've ridden were all light enough that I could pull them out of any ditch or snow bank I might get stuck in and still ride home. If I took a car out in the same weather, I'd need to make sure I had a shovel, a bag of sand, and the number of a tow truck and taxi, just in case...because if I got stuck, I'd be stranded.

Winter hasn't really arrived here yet. It made an appearance with some snow. But it's all gone now.

I am digging the weather here.

So far the easiest winter here in a while. Maybe -10 C is as low as we've gotten if that. I'm good up to about -20C with the heated gear I own and am fortunate that I have a motorcycle that can handle snow with no issues at all. I bought that specifically for winter riding and a few other things. Easily the most expensive winter riding accessory I've ever bought.

Honestly the thing is ride in whatever you are comfortable with. The gear makes a HUGE difference and if you do not own the gear to handle the temps you want to ride in.. don't. Mistakes happen when you are uncomfortable and no one wants to be freezing their ass off while waiting for the ambulance to arrive. I can tell you from experience if your finger tips feel like they want to snap off like the tip of an icicle that is the only thing you are thinking about and your attention to riding suffers.

At some point maybe I'll post a picture of all my cold weather gear. I have a lot and it ain't cheap though you can get less expensive stuff. My long johns (sorry base layer... that's the fancy term) cost a fair amount but to me it's worth it if it means I can ride in the freezing cold. On a Vespa the skirt is an incredible accessory and I recommend it to anyone that wants winter ride especially if you are hitting the freeway or rural roads as the rads venting in to it make for a nice warm environment. The other big things you need to own are heating glove liners or riding gloves. Muffs do help a lot but not in extreme cold. Heated grips are nice for a fall day but don't do much in the real cold.

Rode today. BV's gauge showed 60F. Woot.

About to reinstall the thermal liner + bring out the baclava + neck warmer + "winter" gloves for the sub 50s morning weather next week though.

I think of the heated gloves, heated grips, and handlebar muffs like winter layers. It makes sense and helps me utilize them more efficiently...kinda echoes Harbinger.
Muffs: windproof outer shell.
Heated gloves or grips: The real workhorses of warm hands, but susceptible to cold creep.
The two together are a hot little heaven for your hands. Nothing like the (heating) power of teamwork!

Edit to add: heated grips are nice because they're always there, but...yeah, I've found them most helpful when my uninsulated gloves are just shy of what I need. If it's cold enough for insulated gloves, the grip heat doesn't seep through very well. The nice thing about heated gloves is they're usually ALSO insulated. You don't HAVE to plug them in if the temperature is only a little below too cold for summer gloves. (for me, that's from 45-ish F to mid-lower 60's.)

As a general note, my planning rule of thumb for cold creep is subtract 10F for every hour of riding past the first hour.

The neck warmer is huge, make a massive difference to comfort. It should snug up against your FF helmet and fill in the gap. Winter gloves if you can afford it go Gore-Tex. I have a pair of Dainese that I love and while I think some of their gear is overpriced a lot of it is really good.

Balaclava's are handy but I prefer a skull cap for comfort along with a good neck warmer. However if it is so cold your ears will freeze go with a balaclava.

I know a lot of people are of the "screw that, you're nuts" crowd and I respect that. In my case it's simply we have no place for a car and almost never used it when we did have one so have 3 bikes instead. Motorbike parking is free in the city of Toronto and we are not subject to the time limitations on spots. I also can't stand public transportation so if I can avoid the subway or streetcar I'm happy to take the 5 minutes it takes to gear up. With the right gear you can really can ride in almost anything.

this neck warmer is the best piece of winter gear you can buy....it beats any scarf hands down.....

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/rukka-neo-windstopper-neck-warmer

I've always been happy with my Gerbing heated gloves as they do a better job for the back of my hands, but I recently bought a pair of gloves that had Outlast technology engineered into them.

I came across them as a result of my research into winter riding gloves that would work well with heated grips.

They have a relatively thin palm and front of fingers area which helps with feeling the handlebars and controls and also affords better conduction from the grips to my hands.

The back of the hand has the majority of the Outlast material and this seems to conduct and hold the heat from the front.
So far so good although it hasn't got too cold here.....yet!?

Anyone else heard of Outlast?

if i can't wear shorts i'm not riding...i like the breeze

Screw that, you're nuts for riding in Toronto winters, neck warmer or otherwise; doesn't matter how many bikes you own (3 here as well.)

I remember driving up from A^2 up to Toronto and mistakenly leaving a sleeping dog out in the wagon for too long while we settled into the hotel. He was NOT a happy camper.

Once it goes below 30'F I only ride if my Jeep is down. I got a light frost bite on my fingers as a kid, and anytime my hands start to get cold my fingers feel like they are on fire. So even with my good riding gloves on, a windscreen that somewhat shields the hand grips, my hands cannot take being out in the cold. Just cleaning the snow off my Jeep leaves my hands burning and in pain. My therapist tells me is a combination of after effects from being frost bit once and my hyper sensitivity to cold due to being on the autism spectrum. But IF I need to ride to get parts for the Jeep or get to work, if its not icy I will usually suck it up and try to ride. Mike the Aspie

Too cold to ride is a subjective judgement entirely dependent on the individual rider. I know riders who won't ride below 60F. And others who merrily ride at 20F. Not many of those.

For myself, the cold assessment has changed as I've gotten older. Even though I'm almost always thrilled to be on the road once I get out, it is mentally more of a challenge to prepare myself to gear up and go. The thought of hot air blowing from the dash vents of the car are similar to the romantic thoughts of fire in a fireplace.

Here's what I consider regarding cold weather:

1. Road surface. I generally now only venture out if the roads are dry when it is below the freezing mark. I used to ride in light snow or on roads with patchy snow and ice but I suppose the wisdom of advanced years has intervened.

2. Weather forecast. I don't want to be caught on the road if there's a chance of freezing rain, snow, sleet, wintry mix, etc.

3. Temperature considerations. I still ride down to temperatures below 0F. But I make damn sure I'm wearing the right gear. You just can't grab a jacket and helmet and go. Preparation is more like gearing up for a snowmobile.

That's what I think about when considering cold weather riding. It has served through the last 15 winters and suspect it will moving forward. It also applies to my BMW K75C but that machine is not nearly as cold weather capable. I don't see myself riding the motorcycle below 25F.

And one thing to keep in mind, in my case, the Vespa is equipped with heated grips, Tucano Urbano bar muffs and apron, and I have Gerbing Electric gloves. There's a lot of cold air protection on the scoot.

And last, something that seems a miracle to me now, is discovering I can ride with my big, heavy Sorel Snow Boots. Since I'm not shifting, and I have no fashion standards, those boots are absolutely warm at any temperature. Only took me 14 years of cold feet to figure that out.

I'm not good, but I am slow...

I copy this ... it's a very poetic thought.

Yeah it's too bad you only figured out skirts and warm boots a little later on. Good points all as yours usually are. Your Vespa setup is better than mine for cold temps as all I have is the skirt. Part of the issue is Lou (Toronto Piaggio) doesn't carry a lot of the cold weather accessories and buying the muffs and some of the accessories here is expensive. I don't mind spending the money but when I see the import duty I get frustrated. I hate paying an import tax for something I can't get in Canada and International shipping can be a headache, I've had things get "lost" more than once. I'm seeing Lou next week, maybe I'll ask him if he can bring in muffs for me and maybe heated grips. In my case though I have other options as to what I take out on any given day. The BMW has a skirt and heated grips and the Ural heated grips and Barkbusters. You used to be able to get a skirt but not any more. I talked to a guy a few weeks ago that bought the last Ural skirt in Canada and it was used.

Gotta give it to this guy, he's pretty hard core. I would really have to think twice about going out on 2 wheels today as it's still pretty slick.

I live in central California where its hot so I ride my age less 5. That means that now I don't ride when its less than 70 degrees

...brrrrr....!

Nah.. This has been a great winter so far. Next 10 days are looking awesome though maybe a little wet.

It's just a habit, normal for you who live in those places but in central Italy until about five years ago the winters were milder, cold but you could ride the bike until mid-December.
Now it's as if someone, in late October, turns a switch and zac!
It's frozen winter ...
In spring it's the opposite, until the end of April it freezes then suddenly it's summer ... it goes from 3 ° - 12 ° to 20 ° - 26 °, incredible but true.
Then i also have rheumatism .... ouch ...
However, your photos of your vehicles on the snow are very beautiful and the other friends of the motoclub to which I belong also say so.

Thanks Attila. It really is just relative to what you are used to. You do get used to bundling up a bit and riding in the cold if it is something you have to live in every year. Where you would be hibernating indoors we have the patios open at the restaurants and people using them. I'm not even kidding about that, 10C in the spring and a little sun and the patios are busy.

Speaking of cold... I listed my Termoscud and bar muffs in the For Sale section, if anyone has been thinking about getting those. My signature shows why.

Exactly. I ride for fun and fun only. And after living in SoCal then AZ until two years ago, I like hot weather. For me, putting on tons of layers, special warming this, warming that, just to ride is not fun. I like to jump on the scoot and go. But good gloves, jacket, lined jeans, I'll go down to mid 40s. If I need more gear than that it's not worth it. I have other hobbies.

It is clear that for some the scooter is also a necessity but for others only fun without suffering; now i understand that some daredevils also like to drive in the cold (just for fun) but they must have the body to do it. I no longer have the body and the heat is also essential to justify the use of the scooter (when i go to the sea); the second factor is the impossibility of parking a car where you want to go due to lack of space (even if i have a disabled card) and therefore a two / three-wheeled vehicle is essential.
Ah ... the hot beach, the girls in monokini, how can you not go to an italian beach in summer? No thanks, i will never put the ski rack on the scooter ...

You mean like Borat?

Thats my setup on my Vespa GTS. This winter has been mild relatively speaking. I haven't yet put on the muffs. I do need to get some frogtoggs for the rains as instead of snow I think we are getting a bit more rains this winter.