Modern Vespa

anyone know anything about Cushman Vespa models? We found a 1961 model and the seller says it is a 125cc. Would this actually be an Allstate or is this a different scoot? I understand Cushman imported Vespas for a period in the 60s but I am not sure if this one would have sold at Sears. Experts?


http://sandiego.craigslist.org/mcy/429218450.html

Cushman rebadged a number of 1961 bikes to be sold along side of regular Cushman scooters. ( Kinda like the allstate thing, but ONLY for the year 1961). The rebadged the VNB, VBB and the GS150 ( obviously the most rare and valuable of the three ).

Other than the extra "cushman" badge below the vespa script logo, there was no difference in the bike ( also UNLIKE the allstate ).

I don't know if there are exact numbers of how many VNB's and VBB's were done up like this, but i've heard estimates of ~400 Cushman GS150's making it into the country.

Last year at Motor City Shakedown rally we gave away a 1961 Cushman VNB in the raffle. I don't think they're really worth much more than your standard VNB. It's just got a little extra bit of history with it. ( and extra holes in the legshield )


-Eric

Oh - also ...the Cushman badge ( particularly if the red white and blue paint on it is intact and still visible ) are worth a good amount to someone looking for one. They never repopped them.

-Eric

thanks. I was little curious about this one. One of these days we'll take the plunge and buy a vintage project. $1200 seems reasonable if in fact it's running. For sure it's not a viet bodge.

1200 is MORE than reasonable if it's in even mediocre shape. Parts are readily available for the allstate / VBB / VNB scoots, so nothing is terribly expensive. You can kit it up to 150 or 177 with ease... slap a 20/20 carb and a sito plus on that and it will pull nicely. Only downside is that it's a 3-speed, right? You'll need to pick up a 4-speed gearbox for it...that will make a nice little conversion.

And you're right, there's no way that bike has ever been anywhere other than from italy to the US if it's got a cushman or allstate badge on it. Same thing with the British "Douglas" badge. They were the authorized reseller in England.

this is sounding more and more tempting......

I saw one (maybe more than one) of them in the Vic Fletchall collection.

so if it's 125cc does that mean it's a VNB?

Yes. VNB = 125 and VBB = 150.

My first bike was a Cushman GS 150. One thing you may run into or at least I did is that Cushman may have it listed as one year and the VIN may indicate a different year, but I don't think that's a big deal.

From Eric's post I guess I should have kept mine.

Eh.. i've seen a handful of them over the years. A guy in my club ( Tater ) has a bone stock original GS150 ...original paint, period ulma accessories, ...just awesome conditiion that he paid some chick $2700 for just this past fall. That's about 1/2 of what i think it should have sold for. His has the cushman badge on it.

nate in Ann Arbor michigan has a cushman GS150 that he completely gutted and put a Malossi kitted P-210 engine ..reed valve inducted monster carb, huge pipe ...just insanely fast. He fabbed up his own bracket to adapt from the widemount engine to the largeframe engine style.

I've seen a couple others ...one at WKRP rally 2 years ago ...beautiful condition, etc.

When you start talking about GS150 VS5 value, ( or the other cushman VBB/VNBs ), i don't think the cushman badge ADDS much value to it more than it already is. Most people don't know the story or how few of them they are, so it doesn't really seem to affect the price.

-Eric

we're going to go see it tonight.


The Cushman badge actually does have a sentimental value around here. Julie's father had a Cushman back on the farm on Nebraska as a teenager. The story is that he rode it all over till his mom crashed it into the woodpile. Might be nice to have another Cushman in the family (without it actually being one).

I think we bought ourselves a project. We went to see it last night and it was just about like we expected. The body is pretty straight with some surface rust. It was primered some unknown number of years ago but never painted. The seller bought it last year along with another vespa and I don't think it's left his garage since. Most likely it hasn't been on the road in years. The fender is a little banged up but he had a replacement. The legshield is also a little dented in on both sides but otherwise the body looks ok. I asked the guy to start it and it fired right up on the second kick. Smelled horrible, but it was running. I think it will be quite a while before we get it out on the road but it should be fun getting it there! I'm pretty excited about it. I'll post some photos later.

If you post some detailed shots i can tell you what it's missing...

-Eric

ok, I'll post what we have tonight.

Congrats, Liz! It sounds very similar to Todd's (VP1) scoot. You'd think he'd be all over this thread.

And damn you, Liz! Now Mala Mujer wants one too.

I have no ideas what the sales figures were, but over the years, I've seen a several Cushman GS'es and I've never seen a Cushman VLB/VBB...

I think I've read that Cushman mainly sold GSes and the VNB/VBB Cushmans may actually be more rare, although probably not so rare that anyone would turn down a GS for one. : )

I would agree that their value is right on par with any Vespa of that period. And I would add that 1960-65 is the golden age of Vespas, the prettiest and most reliable models (and still great parts supply for VNB/VBBs).

Bb.

This one is in much rougher shape than Todd's. I think everything on it is probably original except for the primer paint job and tires.

And as much as you bitch about putting together a couple pieces of Ikea furniture, I can't imagine that you want one of these.

I've physically seen / ridden a Cushman VNB. The VBB's i've never seen in person, but have heard a handful of people talk about them.

And yes, I've seen 5 or so of the GS150's, so in my experience the VBB /VNB was the more rare specimen....from a numerical more than a 'what it's worth' perspective.

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/jules_bucket_o_photos/DSC00228.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/jules_bucket_o_photos/DSC00227.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/jules_bucket_o_photos/DSC00226.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t25/jules_bucket_o_photos/DSC00224.jpg

The pictures were taken at night. Aren't all wise purchases done after nightfall?
Looks ghostly. Like I am going to be haunted.
Julie

considering it runs, you've got a better scooter than most people I dunno - it looks pretty rough. I'd pull off the cowls / seat / whatever and spray it with SOME paint ... krylon rattle can or SOMETHING.

The body has taken a few good hits - the legshield is dented and bent in places, the engine side cowl looks like it's missing a louvre or two... perhaps it was crushed at one point and hammered back out.

I dunno - just have fun with it. Get the parts you need to ride it, ( seat cover, etc) bulbs, ...make sure you've got working electrics ... and then just buy the little rubber bits and cosmetic parts as you move forward.

Thanks Eric,
I know this will give me a good introduction to vintage, hoping anything done for it will be an improvement. This will certainly push me out of my gearhead closet.

any bike that RUNS is a good introduction because it allows you to get your riding experience in, and only have to sweat the cosmetic stuff that isn't as important. Also starting with NO mechanical problems means you only have to address one at a time as they arise from normal wear and tear ... it's much easier to fix a bike when it's just a clogged jet or something like that. You'll build up a mechanical knowledge base over time.

yeah, Julie's getting a little bored with the Bajaj-es. They don't break down nearly enough. Not that it stops her from removing and reassembling parts just for fun.


I think I should buy a Haynes manual tonight.

on the other hand, maybe we jumped the gun a little bit. I didn't know this beauty was going to show up.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/mcy/435736783.html

I don't know why but a beaten up and neglected, rusting 45-year-old piece of metal like this just looks beautiful.

I love the curves on these early 60s bikes.

Congratulations!

Oh, and just out of curiosity, if you use some elbow grease and a rag and really scrub the primer, does it come off? The paint on my '62 looked pretty awful at first but it polished right up with some quality car wax.

I know we've got our work cut out for us but I'm looking forward to it. We don't actually have the scooter yet, we'll pick it up some time next week. The worst looking bits (aside from the legshield) can be replaced and there's a new fender coming with it anyway. I love the shape of the bike. So curvy! Not sure about the paint. Somebody put on a coat of primer who knows how long ago and that is mostly what you are seeing. Inside the glovebox you can still see the original paint which was more of a beige color.

Here's the "Fantastic Eric Bike Recovery System Happy Fun Wish Show Method".

1) Degrease bike... i use motorcycle wash degreaser, but something like purple power works well IF YOU DONT LEAVE IT ON MORE THAN A FEW MINUTES. Rinse off with a hose.

2) Rubbing compound from auto-zone or Murrays. Rub the whole thing out with a damp rag. Rinse

3) Cleaner Wax ...again from autozone or Murrays. Do this like you're waxing a car.... rub in, let dry, buff out.

4) Finisher Wax ... rub in, let dry, buff out.

5) Hit all the polished aluminum parts ( brake pedal, levers, lever / switch blocks, etc..) with 4-aught STEEL WOOL and they will polish up like chrome Things like your switch cover, headlight rim....any CHROME part that is steel underneath you can use steel wool on as well, but if you're rubbing off rust spots remember to put on some wax after the fact, or it will rust over again in time.

-Eric

Cool. I think we already have all this stuff at home.

Acctually, you may want to polish all the parts with steel wool FIRST, as it leaves steel dust on everything ... so rearrange my list

-Eric

got it.

Cool scoot Liz. You definitely got your work cut out or you, but you already have a running scoot so take your time and have fun with this one. mmmm curvy