Modern Vespa

Triumphs from Thailand and India. Royal Enfields from India. Benellis from China.

https://www.cyclenews.com/2020/01/article/triumph-and-bajaj-formally-launch-global-partnership/

Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My!

Meh... obviously it is about keeping costs down and we as the consumer are somewhat at fault. We also as a consumer have choice and me personally... I am probably on the side of preferring to buy a vehicle made where it was invented. That just feels more right to me but it isn't the only deciding factor. Face it we're used to buying things all the time from these countries and they can make quality products provided there is proper oversight. In many countries trying to find people to work their asses off for a low wage is a challenge and then there are the Unions. I'm not anti-union by any means but again we as consumers want to pay as little as possible for a product and manufacturers find ways of keeping the price down while maintaining/improving profit.

I just hope Piaggio never stops making the Vespa brand in Italy or if they do (yes, I know they already do) give us the choice of ensuring we buy one with a VIN that starts with a zed.

The way things are going, in a few years Italy will collapse on itself ... well ... maybe we will see the beginnings and we will still be able to enjoy the beautiful design and the beautiful (sic) engines for a few more years.
The problem, I think everyone has understood, is not where the vehicles do or who makes them but how they do them ... yes ... now the workforce in wealthy countries is too high to have acceptable costs on finished products.
You know ... in the end, even if separated by different languages and cultures, we are not so different in what we want and we have, but we also understand that the world is inexorably changing, it may not like it but it is like that.
Or the brands will disappear but this time forever.

Hmmm... as Bajaj and Triumph openly state smaller bikes into Indian (and later Asian) market is the first target, and these(/this) bikes will also be sold in other markets, this could mean we might get a small(er) Triumph!? A baby Bonnie?

Considering the share motorcycles have in Asia vs other markets, I'm not at all surprised that companies have factories there. In addition to all the regular cost savings/manufacturing expertise reasons for offshoring, they are also closer to giant markets.

This is kind of off topic relating to scooters but I will NEVER buy another car that is not made in Japan. Ever. My scoots are either made in Japan or Italy. The BV350 is still made in Italy and will most likely be my next (and possibly) last scooter purchase- getting up in age. I have owned German cars, American cars, and Japanese cars. At this stage in life I don't have time for mediocrity. Japanese cars made in the U.S. don't cut it for me.... Been there done that..

Bob

It's a race to the bottom. Piaggio, and a lot of other companies, moved from China to Vietnam because labor costs in China were rising. A lot of the manufacturing that has come to the US in recent years has also been about cutting labor costs.

For those of you young enough to care, pretty good chance, within ten years, you'll see few if any workers in factories, all displaced and replaced by robots. So it won't matter much where the bikes are built. Good chance they'll have 'factories' at a number of locations, ship in the parts, assemble them locally to avoid tariffs.

Oh, and they'll all be electric.

They have been making Enfields in India for quite awhile now. Most of these manufacturers have no choice - set up a factory in the country where they want to sell, or get priced out of that market because of the horrendous import fees.

The "global" way of manufacturing is a fact of life right now and for the near future at least. With import tariffs, logistic costs to bring in stuff from overseas, building a factory in country makes more sense. Same goes for bringing back some manufacturing to the USA for USA based companies. The cost savings by going offshore are slowly becoming a wash after the costs to bring it back here to sell are factored in. Disposable has become across the board, from cars to everything else. When it wears out, you replace it. I hate that, I would rather have quality that I can fix and maintain as long as I care to. Without the need for a computer to tell me whats wrong with one of the many sensors. I can clean and rebuild a carb. Clean and repair EFI, not so much.

Just wondering what cars are still made in Japan
my Accord is made Ohio

There's a few. Check the vin number when looking. A "j" as the first character indicates Japan as the country of origin. "Z" indicates my Piaggio is from Italy. My local Toyota dealer has Corollas made in the US and Japan. My brother in law used to work for a Honda dealership. Back then Civics could come from Japan or Ohio. He said you could tell in a heartbeat where they were made before looking at the vin. I've witnessed this myself. Lesson learned. My 18 year old Nissan is getting up there in age and mileage so I've been checking out possible replacements. I have a Camry that was assembled by Subaru here in the US. Wish I would have known that before i bought it. Not a bad car by any means, just not what it could/should be. I will never make that mistake again!

Bob

GOOD BOY! You have a paid dinner (in Italy).

I also buy "only" Japanese scooters but FCA cars (I have a discount, my sister works there); the next one will be a Jeep ... Ooops ... it's an American car made in Italy or what? I don't know but I like it, a bit similar buying an HD built by Moto Guzzi? (similar sound).

I have a Toyota IQ. They were only made in Japan. Had it over 10 years without a single problem. Great little 3 seater with auto transmission! Won't get another car but if I did I think I would do the same.

The IQ, however, was not included ... excellent vehicle but people continued to buy the Smart which is smaller and with poorer technology, or at the same price (even less) a Fiat Panda.
As you can see even if there are excellent vehicles, at the same price something makes them prefer or not compared to others and sometimes I wonder why ... apparently there are slight differences.
Remember the Nissan Cube or the Daihatsu Materia? Cars in the shape of a box almost the same but of little success, they stopped making them for Europe (at least in Italy) but then ten years later (even less) the Kia Soul arrived, it was a sales success.
Bah ... but who understands people!

It could be worse. You could have bought a Honda made by Isuzu.
Honda had to know exactly what they were putting their name on when they bought Rodeos. And they did it anyway.

Vespas have been made in India since the 60's.

Every time this topic comes up on MV I find it irritating. Asians are just as human as any other person on the planet. Believe it or not, they build scooters just as well as any other person on the planet.

... the russians also built the Vespa (Viatka) ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyatka_(motor_scooter)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/VPMZ_Vjatka_VP_150 ...why..?
I don't think they are racist references, only underlines of how the different production criteria "could" influence the quality of the finished products. I bought knowing that my scooer is produced in Thailand with Japanese criteria, this was enough for me ... I never thought that I helped to exploit the Thais, never ... they are amiable people. But now end, the topic becomes political.

My Camry was assembled by Subaru here in America. I used to like Subarus but after seeing the US build quality on my Toyota and my brother-in-laws Outback I would never buy a US made Subaru ever. I now will never buy another car made here either. I bought a Chevy - years ago, young and dumb- and it was the worst vehicle ever made in the world. I couldn't wait to get rid of that piece of S%iT!!!! I guess I am biased against vehicles ASSEMBLED here. No racism EVER in my thoughts- just the reality of what I have experienced in build quality. Its not the design or engineering, it the care taken to screw 'em together. When I buy a vehicle I keep it for much longer than the average person does so quality (over all) really matters. If I traded them in every few years that wouldn't matter but if you keep things around like I do they have to be good. Not "into" throwing things out before their usefulness is up.....

Bob

Dude- My wife and I went to an upscale Italian restaurant on Friday. The owner is the chef. He was there in the kitchen even though it was in the afternoon as opposed to the evening when the prices really spike. He made our entries. I wish I remembered what region of Italy my dish was from. Oh my, OUTSTANDING! Sirloin steak covered with hot peppers lightly covered with an imported Italian cheese topped with baked eggplant then covered with his homemade marinara sauce. We had a bottle of South African Cab Sav to go along with our meal. Unreal. He came around to various tables to check on customers. I hear that is customary in Italy. We're going back soon so I can write down the the name of this dish..

Bob

I bought a Scion iA in 2016. Ready? The Scion iA sold by Toyota is a Mazda 2 sedan made by Mazda Mexico.

We bought a Honda HR-V this past August. Yup...made by Honda Mexico. The Scion has been flawless so far but I bought it with a manual 6 speed so it isn't controlled by the computer missing a slew of sensors an automatic would need.

The Honda has CVT transmission. We'll see how it holds up.

Asia is a big place. Some countries in Asia make very simple, poor quality scooters, and some make the best scooters in the world. It's the same everywhere. Some companies in Europe make great cars, and some make Italian cars.

And French cars. And English cars.

Or has that changed?

Methinks Piaggio has somthing of a vested "EQ" in keeping most of their production in Italy (excluding of course the "minor" bits that are made elsewhere, which is likely for the better). Of course, Vespa has chugged on non-stop from the very beginning, unlike other brands that either went away completely (Lambretta), or came and went in fits and starts (Benelli, anyone?). Also recall that Vespas were built outside Italy for some time, so if it entered their minds to do it again*, it would hardly be setting precedent. (Probably not, as the brand has moved ever up-market.)

(*Yes, they're still being built elsewhere.)

Meanwhile: not to start a barroom brawl here, but when exactly was Triumph last really, y'know, Triumph?

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

Not sure if I'm the "addressee" here, but: besides my GTS, I've got no other wheels, let alone an axe to grind therewith. I do, however, deeply admire that new Norton. (For the record, I dig Triumphs too, old and new )

You poor thing. I was addressing the OP. I am sure there is a forum for the ones you mentioned as well.

Oh and please don't use quotation marks for emphasis. It's wrong. Use italics instead.

Max6200 has been ejected from this topic

If the Italian brands wanted to put the old models back into production (with the small improvements to homologate them) several brands of today (and their models) would have to downsize ...
Aside from motorcycles (and scooters) with a design made by lumberjacks with hatchet lines, very little has really been produced.
I would see a Vespa (we are on a forum mainly of scooters) with interchangeable parts, always with a sheet metal frame but reduced to the central structure and plastic side panels (to keep costs down) and change color at will ... a bit like the idea of Smart at the beginning.




Let's also have a war with photos, there is no need to resort to new models with an old design, just browse through the old catalogs.
Battle lost at the start, the first will always be the first ...