Modern Vespa

As predicted, all IC engined vehicles (petrol & diesel) INCLUDING Hybrids, will be banned by 2035. This was announced yesterday by the UK government. This overrides the previous ruling that they would be banned in 2040.

Bringing forward the ban by 5 years is part of the overall strategy to reach our carbon reduction targets. Some European countries are already banning IC engines by 2030.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51366123&ved=2ahUKEwj-4O6Yp7fnAhWDr3EKHYt8DV4QFjABegQIDBAH&usg=AOvVaw1-KKt-sb5n2StBvTKj-gRr&cshid=1580799274908

The affect of this will be to further push the boundaries of EV development for cars and indeed EV bikes of all kinds.

Welcome news.
Why am I suspicious things could be derailed by the fossil fuel lobby and self interest of MPs in motor manufacturing constituencies?

By 2035 the EU will be trying to discover what to do with their battery mountain, of old disused EV car batteries?

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On a more serious note UK might be perfect for EV's. If one can get 400 mile range then that is London to Edinburgh and not many people drive that far in a day?
London to Exeter is only 160.

Not so. Solar storage and smoothing the grid.

Essentially this is all about politics and has not been fully thought through in respect of science or engineering. It seems that if you say something often enough and get what are now called "influencers" to repeat your message any rational discussion or planning is overwhelmed.
I am not saying that there is no such thing as global climate change which is caused by a massively increased human population as well as other factors, but believing that removing peoples ability to use internal combustion engines, or eat meat if they choose to, will solve a worldwide issue is just ridiculous.

What will happen to all the unsold 946es that will still be on the showroom floors in 2035?

No one is suggesting banning IC car and trucks is a complete solution. It's part of a bigger scenario only, and one that must happen. And it is. Trust me, it's all being thoroughly thought through. Since burning petrol and diesel in car and trucks is one of the biggest produces of CO2 on the planet, removing that source of CO2 can only be a good thing and it also gives us better cars. You'll know that if you have done some research. So I wonder what you are referring to? The engineering side of a greener future is going great not just in terms of the EV vehicles themselves, but the UK power grid network. Clean energy expansion and generation is happening very fast now and will be our main electrical supply. In just 9 years 88% of the UK total electrical supply will be from wind and solar, thus reducing the current dependency on oil and gas, and further reducing our CO2 output at generation and by IC engines in one fell swoop. The switch over to EV's will seriously reduce the Uk's carbon footprint, clean up the air we breath and prevent countless deaths from the pollution being currently created by IC cars.

Don't forget the rest of Europe is going this way in 2030, five years ahead of the UK and it's to their credit. The effect of all this is that some car manufacturers are already ceasing production of IC engined cars and concentrating on EV and Hybrids only (Volvo and some others from this year).

Burning one gallon of UK gas (weighing approx 6.5lbs before burning) produces 1 gallon of water, but approximately 26lb of CO2. Amazing isn't it. Getting rid of the 1.5billion IC cars on the planet will significantly reduce the planet harming gases. Although that will not happen overnight of course. However, governments will start to tax heavily IC engined cars after the 2030 new IC engine ban. Fair to say that in Europe and the UK IC engined cars, even current ones will have a limited life after the bans come in. We need to make the change over as fast as possible and the idea is to tax them off the roads. With so much at stake it's hard to disagree with that policy as long as we the public are given time to make that changeover at affordable prices. But with price parity between petrol and EV cars being reach by 2025 according to the industry experts, and maybe even see some EV's being cheaper than current petrol and diesel cars, this could all be a very good thing.

The only thing you can count on in this life is change. Change will happen.
I am a firm believer in this and I am very happy to hear of any step in a direction that will allow us to better respect and care for this planet and all the lives that reside upon it.

Perhaps they can be used for living room decorations. They are attractive.

How will the UK meet the increase demand for electricity? Gas and nuclear from what I read make up 60% of current energy needs. The second is a potential risk that we have seen play out over the last 40 years. With IC becoming cleaner and cleaner I think it should remain in the mix.

UK has pretty much enough capacity for generation, the problem is peaks in demand. Electric vehicles generally charge at night while owners are asleep, when demand elsewhere on the grid is lower.
Smart charging and vehicle to grid will make supply more resilient still.
Nuclear will be in the mix for the foreseeable future but it's not a major greenhouse gas contributor.
Fossil fuels are atmospheric pollutants in many ways. (Reducing our use of them also means doing less business with countries with questionable human rights records).

In 2050 this will all be seen as rediculous as it will have no effect on s false problem. The CO2 problem is not a problem. There are other causes.

If you want to save the planet -

1 Drive a smaller car.

2 Eat less meat

3 Have less kids

4 Don't go on a cruise

5 Take the train once in a while.

You're welcome.

Bill x

No problem...
A) today's vehicles for that date will have become vintage and can therefore be entered in the lists of special vehicles authorized to walk even with the IC engine
B) if on that date I am still alive, the last of my problems will be to turn on a wheelchair with an electric motor
C) if they find out how to lengthen life they will still be late 1 OK

2 OK

3 OK

4 OK

5 OK

Too easy, Mr. Bill Dog ... I'm afraid you'll be disappointed.


You give in fact that no new political entities will arise that will promise owners of IC-powered vehicles to continue walking and the dates will be moved further and further, there are too many immediate interests that will be affected and these will not remain firm to leave struck in the portfolio ... no dear friends, it won't be easy and it won't go smoothly ...

There's an issue here and that's there isn't going to be enough lithium to build enough cars to replace the same amount of ICE cars in this country.

There is a lack of availability of raw materials to build electric vehicles from which is why there aren't enough on the shelves right now.

Compared to the shit that container ships, cruise ships and trucks put out a cars discharge is minute but there are so many more of them so lets think about stop reproducing so we stop it at the source.

If you have less children you have less adults and that's where it all starts.

Oh, A car makes a bigger carbon footprint when it's made, not during its life.

Bill x

So will we be trading co2 for the chemical pollution required to produce these magical cars? I thought that methane is worse than co2 for pollution.
Also, I thought reflecting the sun causes Ice ages. The more snow coverage the more the suns reflected. So why are all the home roofs black, all the roads black, solar panels?

Methane is the problem.

The planet will warm up and all the Methane that's locked under the ice with erupt and destroy the layer ozone again.

Oh joy.

Bill x

+1

The solution was in the movie Logans Run.

It's odd that you should mention that because that's always been a great cultural reference for me.

Rather than dying at 30, it happens at 65 and the money that you were saving on your pension you can piss up the wall in any way you like.

This would help the economy no end.

Bill x

https://www.lowcvp.org.uk/assets/workingdocuments/MC-P-11-15a%20Lifecycle%20emissions%20report.pdf

https://pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/hummer_vs_prius3.pdf

Which gets us back to your point that population control is needed.

To save me getting bored could you tell me what it says ?

I don't have time to read the entire thing.

Bill x

Every time you create new laws or raise taxes, you both take money out of my pocket and make something I am currently doing illegal.

I am for a cleaner environment, but believe moving toward unreasonable
timetables will cause more economic displacement and social pain and suffering.

You smart folks in the UK just stuck it to the CU with Brexit. You do not
need to follow them down the road with unreasonable time tables and goals.

I am optimistic that science will assist more in reducing pollution than a goal of no IC engines in 10 years.

In my home State of Minnesota, our liberal Governor is blocking the very
mining of precious metals needed for all the electric cars in the name of
a greener State.

The debate goes on - I believe we will figure it out.

Bob Copeland

Just don't have lots of children and stop being so selfish with your desire to over populate the world and maybe, just maybe there will be something left for the others.

Is that really so difficult ?

Bill x

And now - an American perspective:

1. I like my Toyota Corolla. Is that small? It is considered small in the U.S.

2. That new Impossible Whopper from Burger King is pretty good.

3. I have only one child, and it would be tough to have another at my age. It's rare to have only one child in the U.S.

4. I'm definitely going on another cruise when I can afford it. It's wonderfully cost effective and fun.

5. I would take the train, but it costs much more than driving my car (or Vespa) and it's incredibly inconvenient.

I can't wait for oil prices to continue their decline as all of Europe stops burning it in their cars! Great idea! Thanks Europeans!

Mine was a World Wide perspective.

Bill x

In the UK we don't use much nuclear energy. It's normally about 21% of the energy mix over here. That figure will drop by near half in 2025 as we decomission more nuclear stations.. Currently the push is for wind & solar energy. We have some of the biggest wind turbine farms in the world and we are adding to them all the time. Same with solar.

Last year we ran our entire country for 24hrs on just clean energy. No oil or gas. This occured during a busy weekday so scientists and the energy industry could test the clean energy network. It worked beautifully.

In just 9 years the UK will generate 88% of it electricity from just wind and solar with the rest from nuclear. and a tiny bit of gas. The gas will fall off quickly within a year or two as more wind and solar come on line.

Charging electric cars is not, and won't be a problem for us. I see there are many EV and green energy myths alive and well in this thread.

Bob, for us in the UK the timetable is completely attainable. It's also totally necessary. The point often missed by many is the fact that in the UK and Europe we have a big air quality problem in many of our cities. IC engines are killing hundreds of thousands of people and making many of us uncomfortable during rush hour times. Then of course, there's the massive CO2 issue.

There is no science currently on the horizon on a big enough scale that will save us or have the same impact as removing the sale of new IC engined cars or trucks.

Removing IC engines is totally necessary. There simply is no other way. Current engines, clean as they are compared to even engines from 10 years ago are still way too dirty. Besides, EV's offer better performance, longer vehicle engine life (just one main moving part in the engine), and will offer fantastic battery range in just another 3-5 years. Purchase prices of EV's are falling and battery prices have already plummeted by over half in the last 8 years. It's all going in the right direction. And don't forget, wireless charging is also coming so no need to plug in for charging.

This just gets better and better... So, Europe is going to convert to electric vehicles in 15 years? Less demand for oil means lower prices at the pump for U.S. consumers! Americans will let Europeans develop and implement the clean technologies and then extort subsidies later to get the technology at a discount in order to "save the planet" (this after CO2 emissions don't decrease globally because the U.S. and other countries haven't bought in to the green revolution yet). Maybe it's time for me to trade in the Corolla - for a gas-powered Ford F-350!

And why don't I hear complaints about the air quality in American cities from those I know living in them? Air quality is fine here in suburban CT... And no one I know that lives in a major city (New York or Boston) ever whines about air quality - they complain about traffic, but never mention that they can't breathe or that their asthma is acting up because of the unbearable pollution. In fact, people are flocking to major cities to live and work - apparently air quality is good enough here in U.S. cities OR people don't know or care that it's bad.

Anyway, my concern for Europe is that they seem to be doing this conversion to all electric vehicles in a vacuum. Many other countries and their citizens don't know or don't care about the benefits of electric vehicles versus IC vehicles. They just do whatever is cheapest (or culturally acceptable) and don't worry about the externalities associated with their consumption. Until there is some worldwide consensus and ability to manipulate consumptive behavior (e.g. through a taxation scheme or worldwide agreements), some people (and governments) will continue making energy choices that are perceived as good for them, but might have negative consequences for others. Unless the economics change (or the politics change), the U.S. is going to continue selling vehicles that burn fossil fuels well after 2035.

There's a large carbon footprint in building a new car but it's not as big as the carbon created over the life of the cars use. And a new fuel efficient vehicle is better than continuing to drive an older SUV.

I see the carbon footprint of building new electric and hybrid vehicles vs. driving older gas guzzlers argument all the time and it's misinformation. It's still better to develop and produce more efficient technology. The false narrative of the former is an excuse to keep wasting and impede progress.

I probably missed this in the thread and attached articles but what happens to all the ICE vehicles on the road now? Will they be banned from use or is there a sunset date on their usage?

Best
Miguel

hahaha. That's how I view most of your posts.

Except for the new Hinkley Point C being built in Somerset?

I've read through several of these threads with the same players posting facts like someone who's drunk from ingesting climate kool-aide. Any lad holding a nice T5 hit me up, I'm interested in preserving your bike before they ban, confiscate and send them to the crusher. I'm also interested in any interesting exotics. Hate to see history melted and repurposed. I'll keep them polished and post photos unless they ban those as well. I suppose I could sketch a pic?

You see Wasp when an Optician first spotted that white cells were breaking through the blood vessels in my right eye he also noticed that many of the cones in the back that receive light were written off which is a pity because that's my dominant eye and this gives me an issue with focusing on print.

Also you have to think through the fog of a drug which is deigned to keep my bone marrow in check which gives me a short attention span which is why my sentences are often short and direct.

Trying to plough through a lot of text is a little like running through porridge for me as it's time consuming and frustrating so I try to avoid it.

Try to picture a page of text with a margin down the middle and the text on either side of that margin is moving up and down so not only are you constantly attempting to focus on words that are moving you're ability to follow the narrative is also somewhat addled.

You're welcome.

Bill x

Text to Speach


There are many text to speech Apps or programs but i don't know if you use a PC or phone to access MVF.

Are the chimneys that pollute the most ... nobody says it, do you want to warm up? Burn! And it pollutes ...

The greatest pollution is perhaps that given by thermal power plants for heating rooms and other sources; many wood-burning fireplaces and pellet-burning stoves are used here.

If you have 10 people read the bible for the first time You'll get 10 different versions explained by them. You can spin the life of a vehicle to back up your opinion but it boils down to one thing only. Too many people too many problems

They will go vintage and be sold at the Bonhams auction for $ 40,000 each...has already happened with other vehicles, i don't find it very ridiculous. In Italy we say: "never use religion to hide yourself but to reveal yourself".
Pollution and its effects on the environment are proven facts and not an acknowledgment made by faith as in a religion, that many religions have arisen from the Bible only shows that God is there but here I stop because to talk about this it's like talking about politics.