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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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@qascooter avatar
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UTC quote
Since I'm going to have a new front end, and shocks, I figured it'd be a good thing to give the rims and tires a balance.

I'd love to do this on a static tire balancer but of course the 4 bolt rim hole is too big for the balancing cones.

I could rig up the old front end with an old axle, but I'd rather use some sort of adapter for the static balancer.

Has anybody done this or have any ideas? Thanks!
How to center this between the cones?
How to center this between the cones?
⚠️ Last edited by qascooter on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
I think you might be able to use the rear hub depending on how small your cones go. I have one I can pull from a motor, but the spline hole is same on most all rear hubs I think. How "permanently" is the rear hub installed on your AllState? Don't forget that it will bleed oil unless you tilt right and block it so it won't.
I checked one and seems doable, but needed & didn't have impact gun handy to look on the other side
I checked one and seems doable, but needed & didn't have impact gun handy to look on the other side
but it should look a lot like the backside of this Super hub, 
except has a separate brake drum but don't take that off unless you have to
but it should look a lot like the backside of this Super hub, except has a separate brake drum but don't take that off unless you have to
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UTC quote
what do you use for balancer? Harbor Freight balancer? I have thought about trying to do this, but never have. You trying to do it to 8" wheels is motivation to actually accomplish this.
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UTC quote
swiss1939 wrote:
what do you use for balancer? Harbor Freight balancer? I have thought about trying to do this, but never have. You trying to do it to 8" wheels is motivation to actually accomplish this.
Hey Swiss. I bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PT9D8KJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was a big debate (most everything is when I spend $$) but my wife ordered it and said that's what I used the $50 gift card I got from her parents! Score!

It's got a built in level, and rubber mounted feet to make sure it's leveled. I had to lube up the bearings with Triflow to make them into spinners - well, not quite that good, but they were fairly stiff when I got it.

I figured I could do Ruby's 10" rims, then tires, and also the 8" rim/tire combo.
This should do the trick!
This should do the trick!
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Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
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UTC quote
I have owned 8 inch Vespas since the mid 1950s and recently have a 10 inch Vespa. Am I missing something here? I have never balanced my wheels. I admit I don't go faster than 55 mph on the Vespas. My Harley is another story and I do have its wheels balanced when a new tire is installed.
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UTC quote
Love this.
Suspect you cant identify the need until you do it.
But subtle smoothness will be heroin - hard to ride one without after you do it.
Just my guess.
Will be interested to see.
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UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Love this.
Suspect you cant identify the need until you do it.
But subtle smoothness will be heroin - hard to ride one without after you do it.
Just my guess.
Will be interested to see.
This is what I'm suspecting - It's going to smooth out the ride. But we'll see. It may just be an act in futileness, but I figure any object spinning at the rate a tire does is going to be effected by it's balance.

I must not have enough to work on! Ha! I'll report back on this thread when I make this happen. I can't wait to balance the P200's rims and wheels, and see what the effect is when I hit 65.

I will probably use my back hub for the 8" tires, like Voodoo suggested, to make sure the hub actually works in the balancer before I spend my hard earned $$ on a hub.

Oh man, now I'm getting excited to do this! Razz emoticon
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I smell a business opportunity.
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UTC quote
You made me go look and I found this one for about the same money, but you can check out a longer shaft for runout if you need to with their pass thru design.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I'd consider adding a simple indicator mount like this so I can also check wheels for runout and tires for true if I was feeling real fussy. Adding live centers like this one also has(@almost twice the price) wouldn't be too hard either.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
Yes, I looked at this model but figured I wasn't building spoked rims, so I'd save the few bucks. But you are right, it'd be easy enough to add another reference point on my stand to check true and sidesway. Thanks for posting Brother T!

BTW, ScootNewB (my buddy Chris) and I will be balancing a bunch of tires on our scoots at the end of the month.
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UTC quote
no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

I dont balance 12 in tires. it does nothing.

14 inch can use it. but extra smoothness only felt at 50mph or faster.
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UTC quote
[quote="jerryd"]no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

Dont know about that. Doing the tire and rim (hub as well?) will definitely smooth things out. Wish i had tried this on my P. Had weird vibrations for a long time. Ended up being the rims which were og and looked great, but must have been out by miles. I guess 40 years does stuff. Qa's check would have stopped a whole lot of head scratching.
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UTC quote
jerryd wrote:
no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

I dont balance 12 in tires. it does nothing.

14 inch can use it. but extra smoothness only felt at 50mph or faster.
Hey Jerry - thanks for your experience! I've never balanced 10" or 8" tires, rims, or hubs either. BUT, I've done 12" and I tried going over 30mph without balancing the 12" on my old GTS250 and there was no way you could've rode it over 30, that's how bad the tires needed to be balanced.

And I've had a number of 10" tire/rim/hubs that in retrospect, probably would have benefited greatly from a little balance.

Come to think of it, I could use a little balance too. Ha! Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
Q.. This is an excellent idea and makes lots of sense. I spoke to a vespa mechanic last year who told me he's been balancing his wheels for years and enjoys the much smoother ride he's getting. The conversation started when I mentioned I'd had a flywheel balanced...

Im sure there'll be more than a few of us interested to hear how it turns out..
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UTC quote
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
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UTC quote
Strangely enough, both these rims felt fine at 55mph.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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swiss1939 wrote:
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
Here's the live center I was considering on Amazon. Two at only $3.70 each plus some fiddling around w/ a piece of 3/4 fine threaded rod, eight nuts, a welder and half hour on a lathe to make a couple of adapters?

If I do all that, I'll probably also weld the thing together and add some bracing to stiffen it up. But that's not likely needed just to wheel balance w/ no side loading.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I can replace this cobbled up thing:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Hmmm.... or I could just get this one for a little more and ready to go, I dunno... Nerd emoticon Hmmmm indeed.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by V oodoo on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
Here's the live center I was considering on Amazon. Two at only $3.70 each plus some fiddling around w/ a piece of 3/4 fine threaded rod, eight nuts, a welder and half hour on a lathe to make a couple of adapters?

If I do all that, I'll probably also weld the thing together and add some bracing to stiffen it up. But that's not likely needed just to wheel balance w/ no side loading.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

I can replace this cobbled up thing:
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

Hmmm.... or I could just get this one for a little more and ready to go, I dunno... Nerd emoticon Hmmmm indeed.
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Hey V oodoo.. thats awesome! Unfortunately I do not have a welder and have no space for one currently. Some day I will get one, but not right now. So most likely will purchase one of these cheap ones off amazon.

Christopher, the second one was the one I went to Harbor Freight today to pick up, and they don't sell it in my local store. Let me know if you find one. If I'm gonna pay shipping, I'll buy from amazon instead of HF.
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UTC quote
I'll throw my hat in the ring on the side of balancing 8" or even 10" wheels as unnecessary. I have ridden Vespa for more years than I can remember and have never given balancing the tires/wheels a thought. I suppose you could go all scientific and split hairs here but it's not for me. Never had the need. Just sayin.
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UTC quote
I have a 50cc scooter and a tire is out of balance I can tell. I want to pull the wheels and check it this summer. I think it depends on how far out you are and your maximum speed. Not really a one size fits all situatio, not going to hurt to do it.
⬆️    About 3 months elapsed    ⬇️
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79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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UTC quote
10"
I still haven't balanced the 8" tires, but I got new tires for the P200, so figured it'd be a good time to balance the hubs and rims/tires and see how it goes.

My front end would shake if I let go of the bars going down the road by my house and the front end would shake when putting on the front brake. It felt fine at speed though so I didn't think anything of it.

Well, after balancing everything, the front end doesn't shake - it's rock solid letting go of the bars going down the hill.

I put about 9~10 grams on each hub, and a boatload on each rim/tire. I was surprised how much weight each tire took to balance.

And yes, I affixed the weights with shoe goo. Razz emoticon Whether it makes a difference in actual real world riding or not, I'll be balancing all my rim/tires from now on. I'll take any advantage I can get in making the scooter roll smoother.
Front hub and the weight attached
Front hub and the weight attached
Rim/Wheel combo with weight to get it to balnce - each weight is 7 grams or 1/4 oz
Rim/Wheel combo with weight to get it to balnce - each weight is 7 grams or 1/4 oz
Second rim/wheel combo. The hub is just used to balance the wheel. It's been balanced also...
Second rim/wheel combo. The hub is just used to balance the wheel. It's been balanced also...
New tires - Heidenau K58s. A little buzzy compared to Michelin S83s or Conti Zippy 1s. At least they're balanced!
New tires - Heidenau K58s. A little buzzy compared to Michelin S83s or Conti Zippy 1s. At least they're balanced!
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
It's funny that all the people arguing against balancing have never done it. Just saying.

A mate of mine started doing it for a bunch of his mates and found that typically they needed 20 -25 grams.

Voodoo how is the live centre used in this application? I don't get it.
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UTC quote
This is so DAMN cool!
love it.
Headed back to re-read to figure out how you figured it out!
Nice rubber BTW.
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UTC quote
Marc Parnes
Greetings:

I just received the Marc Parnes cones for ET4 and LX and used the tool for the first time. I have one of the no-frills Harbor Freight stands and can tell you it is junk. The shaft isn't true for Gosh's sake! No way to get even close with a saggy shaft. (Use your imaginations...)

On the other hand, Marc's balancer is a Work of Art. Shiny, precision-machined cones fit precisely and the 12mm rod is tool steel and rigorously linear. Bearings are near friction-free. Just set up between cinderblocks or jackstands and trust your instincts. Use the Force. My 11" rim and CityGrip needed only 7.5 grams, but you could see the imbalance without it.

A little pricey at $105 or so, but you certainly get Value for the money.

BTW Flash 9 - a 2001 Honda SA50 SR with Pirelli tires used to rattle my fillings when I let go the bars. Balancing small rims makes great sense when the scooter goes 60.
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UTC quote
Re: 10"
qascooter wrote:
My front end would shake if I let go of the bars going down the road by my house and the front end would shake when putting on the front brake. It felt fine at speed though so I didn't think anything of it.

Well, after balancing everything, the front end doesn't shake - it's rock solid letting go of the bars going down the hill.

... and that's why it makes sense to balance. Simple as that.
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UTC quote
Since I don't have enough to do or enough tools, I just ordered a wheel balancer. I've frequently thought about wheel balance, but never done anything about it until now.

It'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference. I always put the shakiness at highway speeds down to the (lack of) aerodynamics of the scooters.
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UTC quote
This is the first I've seen this topic, very interesting for sure and really a great idea. These old machines have enough inadequate safety functions but if you could get the wheels to balance you would be taking one thing off the list. If you could put a tubeless tire on these rims you would be able to use balancing beads which take all the guess work out.
⬆️    About 4 years elapsed    ⬇️
UTC

Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
So Scott, have you gotten around to balancing the 8" wheels yet?
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UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
So Scott, have you gotten around to balancing the 8" wheels yet?
Dude...it's only been four years. Don't rush him!
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UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
So Scott, have you gotten around to balancing the 8" wheels yet?
Bwaahahahahaaa. Negative. hahahaa. I'm still laughing at Chandlermans comment.....

Maybe someday, but there always seems to be a higher priority, like watching the wind make the trees dance. Razz emoticon
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
Bwaahahahahaaa. Negative. hahahaa. I'm still laughing at Chandlermans comment.....

Maybe someday, but there always seems to be a higher priority, like watching the wind make the trees dance. Razz emoticon
You got this.
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Guess I'll check back in in another 4 years and see where you're at with this one… ROFL emoticon
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UTC quote
Did someone say RETROGUY?
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