Modern Vespa

P.S. I took my GTS to the Vespa mechanic to have the steering mechanism...bearings, etc. tightened and I am glad to say that the wobble is 100% better for now. Even at the most problematic speeds or on uneven roads the steering feels very stable. If a very mild wobble appears it seems to correct itself quickly. This may not be the solution for everyone, but it's a good place to start.

Thanks,

KAS


I have a GTS 250 that is 16 months old and has 2400 miles. Over the past four months the front end wobble seemed to be more pronounced than before. I noticed it most when I was rolling down hill or not holding on to the handlebars very firmly. The wobble seemed most noticeable between 25mph and 40mph. I suppose I am more sensitive to such things than some people, but it has really started to bug me more and more. In the past few days I replaced both of my Sava tires with Michelin Pilot Sports. I was hoping that a newly balanced front tire might help. Unfortunately, the opposite effect has happened. The wobble now is even stronger and now goes from 25mph +/- up to 70mph+. I can feel the pulling of the wobble sometimes even when I am holding the handlebars somewhat firmly.

I spoke to the mechanic at Vespa and he said this is normal and as the scooter breaks in the front end gets looser. I believe this is true because I test drove a brand new GTS and the front end was much tighter and the wobble was minimal. The mechanic explained that since Vespa's have very little weight on the front end they are prone to wooble. The lightness is also what makes them agile and turn quickly.

What I don't understand is how the wobble became so much worse after I replaced the tire. Before the tire change I had no wobble at all over 45mph. I really like my new tires as they have completely changed the ride on the freeway. The Savas felt scary on the grooved freeway as they would move about and I felt unsafe. The cornering on the Pilot Sports is also excellent. I can't quite understand the reason why the tires would increase the wobble so much especially at high speeds.

The Vespa mechanics are of no use to me as they find this wobble to be fine. For me it creates a sense of unease. I feel as if the front end is not as stable as I would like it to be.

The wobble does not seem to be affected by weight on the rear rack of the scooter. I had read this could be an issue. I even tried the heavier handlebar weights that come with the rear topcase. The wobble is just as strong when I have nothing on the rear rack.

Now after that incredibly long explanation, I am asking for any advice or helpful information. I would appreciate any ideas or personal experiences.

Thanks,

KAS

I am wondering if adjusting the steering bearing will help this?

Does adjusting the steering bearing make the steering slightly stiffer? I can't get my head around this and was about to attempt it, but don't want to pull the headset apart for no good reason!

PS I just get a vague wobble and feel that the steering is just a little skittish and should perhaps be a bit firmer!

All the answers you need are right here:

https://modernvespa.com/forum/search.php

forgive us petrol, but the answer to fryomax question is not answered in the search.....it has been discussed, but there still does not seem to be any conclusive answers that are very satisfying.......often individuals ask questions with a view to seeing if there is anything new out here on the subject..........for I too would like to know more on this matter...so go ahead and ask fryomax........if anyone has any new info on this wobble matter, please chime in.....cheers and peace, zoomin

Unfortunately it seems that there is still no conclusive answer. The fact that there are so many different "fixes" to the problem, yet all different, seems to prove this. I was, and still am of the opinion that it's loose steering head bearings that are a contributing cause, based on the fact that each time I re-torque mine, the handling definately improves. The problem is that after a very short while, the slight headshaking returns. I have not found that tire pressure, or different makes of tires are of any help at all. I wish i could tell you more, but, I guess it's a GTS quirk that we have to live with. I bet that a steering damper would help, though!

Cheers,

Bob

Ok thats fair, if there is any new information.

I used to be the same way; let them talk but man after repeat and repeat and repeat it gets old. There is a ton of information on this topic and there have been no breakthrough discoveries so all the info. is in the search.

This problem seems to be isolated to the GTS. I wonder how the caster on the GTS compares with other models...............

My BMW R65LS used to do this, when I wasn't holding the handle bars very tightly (or at all-using the cruise control). It was a little more pronounced when I had my saddle bags on and loaded. It was kind of amusing, but easy to control by just grabbing the handlebars again. I always just chalked it up to "one of those things that just happens to bikes."

Thankyou for all the responses. I did look at several of the old posts on this subject and it appears to be a bit hopeless. A couple ideas that come up a few times relate to puting some kind of weight on the front end; either a rack or a fender guard. These people often claim to have some success. I put a compact 3 lbs weight in my glove box and it seemed to help just a little bit. Burgerbob thinks that it could be due to the loosening of the steering head bearings. This makes sense to me because when I test drove the brand new GTS the front end was much tighter and there was almost no wobble. In regards to the change of tires, I was definitely getting a wobble with my Savas but not nearly as much as I do now with the Pilot Sports. It is the higher speed wobble with the Pilot Sports that concerns me and how strong it becomes. I plan to work on this issue with my Vespa mechanic and hopefully can come up with some solution. I will post my progress.

Thanks again,

KAS

Do any of you west coast guys know who the piaggio/vespa engineer/mechanic guy was who showed up at one of your rallys or workshops and might have a decent answer to this question or possibly a fix......I just can't believe that its something that you are just suppose to get used to.....even if its suppose to be safe, it is unnerving.

The headshake, or wobble that is constantly discussed happens when decelerating at about 10-20 mph, with one or no hands on the bars. I have no issues with higher speeds, in fact I find my GTS stable at high speeds.

Cheers,

Bob

allright allright, I'll join in darn it.


First, get one of these. You wont regret it regardless of the wobble

http://www.marcparnes.com/Vespa_Scooter_Wheel_Balancer.htm

Balance your wheels yourself and you will probably be surprised.

Make sure your tires are inflated properly and maybe a touch over.

Wear out your current tires and try some good tires (the stock Savas are not very good tires overall and catch on the grooves anyway)

Change your seating postion and see if that has any effect.

finally, understand its a scooter with 12" wheels and a poor rake angle. Keep both hands on the bars and get used to it . Unfortunately

My vote goes for the loose steering head bearings. My old GTS used to shake like crazy. The new one had no shake, but now with about 2K miles a little bit of shake is starting to creep back. My theory is that just running over potholes and bumps loosens things up.

Well, I bit the bullet yesterday evening and tightened the steering bearing. The wobble hasn't gone but is very much improved, as is the general feeling of stability. I didn't tighten the nut very much, perhaps an eighth of a turn. It's just a right pain in the a$$ to get to as the handlebars have to come off along with the headset covers and speedo drive. I'm becoming quite an expert at removing the headlamp panel, yet everytime I do it it feels like I'm going to break something.

any number of things can cause the wobble.
type of tire and/or tire wear, tire pressure, bearing wear and or/torque, brake disc condition, road condition, road composition, windscreen angle, shock preload, rider weight and/or position, steering bearing adjustment.

at the end of the day, there is no 40.00 fix.
there is no silver bullet.
every situation has it's own set of variables.

best,
-greasy

See if my last post in this thread helps you with the headset cover (headlamp) removal. It sure makes it easy now.
Jeff

GTS Headset Cover Removal--I NEED HELP!!!!

Someone (I can't remember who) posted photos of how to do this job.

I'd like to try it but can't find the post. You don't happen to know where it is do you?

I've searched for this but can't find it Kam. It's fairly straightforward once you have the headset off. Undo the speedo cable nut and remove the back of the headset using four screws. Undo the bolt which holds on the handle bars and remove the bar and let it hang over the glovebox using a towel to protect the paint. Remove the plastic cover over the bearing. Remove the locknut (flat screwdriver and hammer or preferably a special tool), why not mark the original positions with some tippex! Remove the washer and tighten the bearing so that there is no "catching". Reverse the above.

Even a "newbie" like me found it.
GT/GTS: Headset Cover Removal

Thanks Dougl65. I'll try it hopefully this weekend.

Nightwing, that isn't the post i was referring to but thanks for trying anyway.

Here's the link I was looking for.....


Adjusting steering head bearings on a 250 GTS

i said to check your steering head bearings at least a year ago, there was an article written about it in motorcycle consumer news,which i'm sure other people on here have read... need tappered bearings, not ball bearings to help solve the problem, and keep it adjusted, i gonna have mine looked at at the next service.

Do you have a part number or a link?

I guess I misunderstood your question. You had already adjusted the bearing, so I figured you were OK with that. It was the issue of how to take the headset apart without feeling that something was going to break that I thought you were concerned about. I knew about that other thread, but the one I posted had great pix. Hope all works out well.

I took my GTS to the Vespa mechanic on Friday, he tightened the bearings and anything else that needed tightening. I am happy to say that for now the wobble is completely gone. It seems that the new tires I bought enhanced the wobble situation, but now it is far better than before even with the Sava tires. If you are having problems with a front end wobble I recommend having your scooter serviced. Even though I have a three year warranty, I paid for this service out of pocket. Vespa is not likely to admit this is a real issue. I suppose you could call it normal wear and tear. If your tires go out of balance you can't blame the tire company. I just hope this remedy holds for a while. I don't mind doing this every year or so, it is worth the much improved ride.

Just when I thought things were looking up, my clock button and functions have gone completely haywire. It just so happened that the clock malfunction appeared at the exact same time of my service. The Vespa dealer insisted this was pure coincidence, because the mechanic wasn't working on anything connected to the display. I'm not sure what to say, but my warranty should take care of this. The buttons on the GTS are a bit sticky and seemed like a problem waiting to happen.

The other unfortunate situation is that the plastic steering headset cover wouldn't go back to together properly. I watched the mechanic struggle with it for a long time, but in the end I am left with a big gap where there used to be none. He seemed to click everything into place, but it just didn't want to fit together nice. I may have this looked into more later.

Thanks for all the responses,

KAS

To get to the bearing nuts, he had to move the dash which is alot of wires.

So they fixed the wobble but gave you an electical gremlin and dont know how to put the cover back properly

Especially considering you paid for this service, they should make good one way or another

I'm in the same boat; I have almost 8,500 miles on my GTS which is only seven months old. I commute to San Francisco every week day from Alameda. The wobbling and unbearable squeaky brakes (rear) since I had the shoes replaced is kinda killing my once impeccable opinion of my new scooter. I will be modifying my front shock with a Bitimo and replacing the stock tire with a Pirelli (Recommended option). I was planning on upgrading the shock for more highway stability; but i shouldn't have to. There's plenty of tread on my stock/original tire, so it's discouraging. I'm hoping with the new tire and shock, plus the front steering bearing sounds like a logical solution since I've put a lot of miles in a short time on all types of roads, so I could see it becoming loose. If your brakes squeak after you have them replaced, take them back, they will ruin your whole Vespa experience; serious thorn in your side! I've been too lazy to drop it off again and be scooter less for a day, so I've been just dealing with it. The squeking does go away after they are very warmed up.