Modern Vespa

In the spring, guy brought his dad's SS180 to a friend who has a small engine shop ( mowers, blowers, chain saws, etc. ) to have him get it running. He has been swamped with work and recently lost his helper to a heart attack ( he's OK but can't work) and has not able to get to it all summer. I said I'd take on but would like to know how hard it is to find parts for it. I have read that some things are unique and I would like to get an idea of what I'd be up against. It appears to be complete and is quite good condition but I'd go through the motor and replace the seals at least.
Thanks.

If it appears complete, then the parts like cables, bearings, seals, brake shoes, clutch plates, and rubber parts for an overhaul are not hard to find. Any of the main parts distributors will have parts or whole kits.

If gears or major engine parts are too worn out, it could take some time to find them on eBay or other such sites. Even parts like whole carbs and air boxes are out there. Whole bikes are fairly rare, but parts aren't as rare as many people think.

seals are not a fun job on these bikes, plan to replace main bearings at the same time at the very least.

Combines the pain of the VBB/super/sprint engines of needing to install the seals while the cases are hot and get the bearing in before it cools, with the absolute must of using all the specialty pullers of the Rally/P, and then sprinkle in the need for a clutch puller like a smallframe, and season it with just not being quite like anything else and very limited part availability.

It's a love/hate thing...

Need to be a skilled mechanic with a very good eye for detail and an organized build methodology. But with that, they are not that hard, but still an PITA.

Thanks for that. I just talked to my friend with the shop and the first thing is to get it running. Motor's free and the bike appears to be in very good condition. I'd do a leak-down on it before I bothered with opening it up and although there's the likelihood the seals will need replacement, there is evidence of work having been done to this bike at some point in its life, and they may be OK. I have confidence in my skill level and have done 7 Vespa motors including the piston-ported 150 for the Motovespa, a Rally 200 ,a VBB, a couple of SF's, as well as a TV200. As I said, I'd first make it run and go from there. I also told my friend that I would not do this without the owner's OK.
I also know that if I do run into a problem, I know where to go.

I work on a lot of stuff but I think I know my limitations.

I have some of the special tools needed but not all. I'm pretty good with many different motors but had never done a GS or SS before. So I checked around, hit up people for suggestions.

The motor had never been opened up and I wanted it done right and kept stock. I found a reliable experienced scooter mechanic, pulled the motor and sent it to him. Even then it took some time as his preferred machinist was backed up (1st oversized).

I'm glad I did it that way, YMMV

Thanks for your input. Your experience with these machines certainly trumps ( sorry) mine and I will keep this in mind if the motor needs more than what it takes to run.

When I got it in my shop I found the motor was free but the points had been gapped off-the-cam and weren't closing. I got a spark but couldn't fire ether so I found 30lbs compression and pulled the cylinder. The rings were stuck in the grooves and the crank and con rod were rusty. It had been left outside with the cowl off and the air box and bellows missing so water had gone right down the carb into the case and also down the manifold into the body. The rust at the tail end of the tunnel floor is all there is on this bike.
So... new crank, piston, seals and bearings, kick start gear, cruciform, rear axle seal, points, condenser, ignition coil, air box and manifold, tires and tubes.
From what I could tell, there were not a whole lot of miles on this machine. The cylinder looked great so I just cross-hatched it with a ball hone. I filled the exhaust with kerosene for a few days and then flushed it with gasoline. I removed and cleaned the throttle tube and lubed it up. Tank was pretty good and whatever coating someone sloshed in there was in great shape. I put some gas in it and it started right up and ran like a champ. The lights even worked. I rode it around the neighborhood and was amazed at the low end torque. It's very tight and feels as solid as any I have ridden.
The owner was shocked at the cost of the work agreed on by my friend with the mower shop and says he would have just sold it. I told him it's going to be another $500 to really make it roadworthy and reliable and he agreed to sell it to me instead.
It's been painted white and then masked and painted again. No hope for any original paint underneath. It's straight and solid and the bodywork would be easy. I am curious about the single seat ( the cover's new but the frame is not) and the flat tank.
Here are some pics and one of three of mine at this point in time. And I am so tired of white and black cars... The Motovespa was that color when I got it and the little Allstate had to be Bianco Spino. I may change the color of the SS.

That there is a screen full of eye candy. 8)

As you noted, the tank is incorrect. An original tank is about an inch higher. The correct original seat, or original type seat, would look much better. The original is not black, but a very, very dark blue.

Since the last post, I worked out all the bugs and took care of virtually everything mechanical. Also got a correct tank and took the saddle off. In the beginning, the biggest hurdle was having it just quit all the time at almost exactly 25 miles. I replaced the stock-type brown coil with a generic black one and have had about 2500 miles of very satisfactory riding. It's an absolute dream.
I now needed a project and decided to strip it all down and change it from Bianco Spino to Pavone Blue. Fortunately, whoever repainted it ( badly) in the past beat out the dents and got them sort of close and never used any filler, which was nice. I stripped the obvious dented areas and smoothed out everything I could find and with no interest in stripping it back to metal in the shop, I took it to my favorite stripper and it should be back next week. I'll prime it and continue working on getting it smooth and paint it.
The bike was in surprisingly good shape and had shown very little wear inside the motor. The only rust was at the rear of the tunnel from the water that funnelled in through the intake air elbow. At some point, it had been left outside with the engine cowl , the air box, and the bellows off.
Here are some before pictures.


The right side of the leg shield and down along the floor was pretty bashed up and minimally straightened. The left side was near perfect so I had a good reference.

This was the only filler I found and it fell out in one piece.

No need to cut out the floor. The right edge of the floor's bent. The replacement muffler sits at an angle and too far to the right. The tire barely hits the depression in the box and clears the flange by 1/8". I had to cut and angle the exhaust pipe

The insides of the cowls, mudguard, and rear well were nice.

The rear of the left cowl had been straightened out badly and the spine was off by 1/2"

A creative and effective pin repair

Quilted pillow rust

Here are a few more.


I cut out the flat areas on top and on the sides to avoid messing with the curved spines, which were fine. I made the patches from an 18 gauge '68 SAAB roof panel I had.



This little tag sale shear cuts flat 18 gauge beautifully.



Typical dent treatment.

Almost smooth. I'll work on it all some more after it's stripped and sealed.

Woah, you have skills Moto! It's going to look great.

One thing on this motor that's interesting is that it has only four wires from the stator : black ( grnd) , red ( ign) , blue ( brake) , and green ( power). No Yellow. No battery.

All the schematics I see on Scooterhelp show a yellow coming off a blue/yellow coil for the lights. The owner's manual shows the same four stator wires I have but the blue and green are coming off of single coils with no yellow involved. The stator on this bike has a blue/yellow coil and a green/yellow coil but the yellow wires are joined at the junction board and do not leave the stator. The green wire powers the horn and lights from the HB switch.

The blue/yellow coil is typical where each lead comes off the end of the coil and circuits ground through the bulbs. The green/yellow coil has two grounds so I assume it has two separate windings and the yellow is feeding the yellow end of the blue/yellow coil. Does this increase the power on the blue wire and why would the brake light need it when all the other lights are run off the single green ?

I could re-wire it and have a yellow feed for the lights ( it's in the new harness) but even though I don't understand the configuration I think I'll just leave it alone as everything works perfectly as far as I can tell. I will replace the four lead wires from the stator . At least the junction board is not plastic like some.....


It's hard to see here but there are two grounds from the green/yellow coil.

Typical green sheath rot. These wires were intact and did not short before I disturbed them.

When the cylinder cowl is attached it does not contact this head nut so it flexes the cowl and puts it under tension. I would assume the cowl should tighten against the nut and I had a spacer in there so it did. Is this the correct nut ?

The cylinder shroud should contact the long nut cleanly under no tension. When I first bought my GS, the previous owner had put a stack of washers under a normal nut because the correct long nut had been, I guess, unavailable to this person.

Your long nut is either too short or you have weirdness with the shroud

It's odd because the shroud is mint and there was no sign of the motor ever having been touched before I got it. I'll look for a longer nut.

The one on there is 27mm long and it looks like 35 would be right. This one on SIP's site appears to be 24 ?

I'll measure the one on mine, which I know is original, and let you know.

I can't remember how many times I've ordered parts from a supplier for a part that said, "For PX, Rally, Sprint, SS180, GS160, and others" I get it and it doesn't fit.

Last edited by nomadinsiam on Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:00 am; edited 2 times in total

Thanks.

Never mind...
It is not The nut : there's supposed to be a nut under it.
Makes sense now.

Ah, yes, of course. Mine was heavily bodged. It had a normal nut on the cylinder, then a stack of washers, then another normal nut.

In the parts diagram I have, a flat washer goes first, next a split spring washer, the normal nut, no washer, and the long nut. Shroud goes on over the long nut, then split spring washer on the shroud, last is the short bolt.

Do you think 15w fork oil is too stiff for the SS shocks ? It does seem heavier than what was in there. I am all of 140 lbs. Maybe 15 in front for dive and 10 in the rear ?

according to this stock was 13, so don't think 15w would be too much.

http://www.scooterlounge.com/vespa/repair-guides/gs_shock_rebuild.shtml

Thanks. Just happen to have a bottle of 15. Not so hard to change later on I guess.

really nice work

Thanks. I had it blasted and got it all smooth enough for just a skim of filler where needed. I " borrowed" a Pavone Blue chip from Scooters West and had it scanned and mixed and then I tweaked it some and it came out sweet. I love this color and now I am glad I didn't go with a green. I still want a green Vespa, though.
I cut the paint a bit and still have some buffing to do and as soon as my parts order(s) come in I'll get to putting it back together. I miss having it on the road.

I like that color too. I am re-painting my Rally 200 a blue (lighter color) this year. I wish I had the shop and the skills to do that kind of work. It looks like a lot of fun and very satisfying. I am currently getting bids on shops to do it for me which feels a bit like cheating.

I enjoy every aspect of this work other than the anxiety I feel just before shooting the paint.

Looks Amazing!!!!!

Love that Pavone Blue. Will look Amazing Moto!

That's some tidy welding and shit, you can paint too. That's like having the keys to the kingdom for making anything old and crusty beautiful again. Nice work and I love that color.

And when it's all done, I have no one else to blame....

really, really nice work. That color is gorgeous.

Nice body work.

Outstanding work really like the color looking forward to your progress

I love the blue. The most rare of the three colors.

How critical is the crimped 'connector band' on the gear cables ? If I add one, how far down the sheath does it go and are the ends even ? I haven't added one on any of my bikes.

Not critical, but it's a nice touch. The clamp helps keep the outer cables from jumping out of the top hats when shifting gears.

The cable ends aren't even - they're offset about 2" to account for movement of the shifter. I have a pic somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

Thanks, much appreciated.
What is the correct horncast badge for the SS ? Is it the same as the GS ?

Beautiful blue

Yes, it's the same. It's the light blue/dark blue plastic rectangle with a bit of canvas fabric glued to the back of it. The one below is a reproduction, but looks quite close to the original.

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