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Hey guys I need some input , when I was pressing in the bearing races using a rod , big socket, washers and nuts , I sunk in the top race seat. I was wondering why the bearing wasn't sitting flat to the tightening nut. I guess I was torqueing on it too hard , I popped the top race back out.
Obviously I don't want to use heat but I'm thinking of making some kind of puller up to pull it back upward, you guys got some ideas?
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Gutted. I don't think you should be using a puller to get them in - I'd say they are too tight if that is the case.

I'd use a long solid rod like a punch and knock it back up from the bottom. Dunno if heat would help... I'd think you would have to heat it a lot.

Purely speculation on my behalf...
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pheasant plucker wrote:
Gutted. I don't think you should be using a puller to get them in - I'd say they are too tight if that is the case.

I'd use a long solid rod like a punch and knock it back up from the bottom. Dunno if heat would help... I'd think you would have to heat it a lot.

Purely speculation on my behalf...
The top one was no issue to pull in , bottom one is in there real good now. Heat will definitely not be considered but as a last resort. To knock from the bottom is an option but definitely the threaded rod I have won't do the job. I'd have to lay the bike over to hit it upward, I have it kinda teetering on a milk crate and it's already gone over a couple times, lucky for my cat like reflexes to catch it.
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Here's a couple more photos I took before going out the door for work, sorry they'll be one post at a time as it's off my phone.
Pics just to give better view of how it's pulled down at the half moon end.
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Trying to show the right angle
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Another one
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Last one
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Well, that's problematic...

-g
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greasy125 wrote:
Well, that's problematic...

-g
Believe me my brain is spinning with all the different possible options.
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Allow me to ruminate.

(Drink a whole bunch)

I may have a fix...

But yeah. No es bueno. We fix.

Gears turning....

-g
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greasy125 wrote:
Allow me to ruminate.

(Drink a whole bunch)

I may have a fix...

But yeah. No es bueno. We fix.

Gears turning....

-g
8)
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Can you get a fuel tap wrench under that seat? If you could maybe you could put a largish washer under the U in the fuel tap wrench, with a nut under it, 2 nuts above, threaded rod secured with a nut and large washer below, if you turn the lower of the 2 nuts above whilst holding the nut below, the threaded rod should start to turn, it might lift it.
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Maybe something like this? Using the 3 internal jaws to pull and the 2 legs on the flat area around it?
Just spitballing and brainstorming....
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Is that the bottom race installed in the top of the tube?
shouldn't there be a tube coming up from the bottom race to the top race? Why can I see cables lookin down where the column will pass? I'm confused.
⚠️ Last edited by scootermarc69 on UTC; edited 1 time
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scootermarc69 wrote:
Is that the bottom race installed in the top of the tube?
No I took the top race out. The bottom race is on the fork.
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poidog wrote:
Maybe something like this? Using the 3 internal jaws to pull and the 2 legs on the flat area around it?
Just spitballing and brainstorming....
This is kind of what I was thinking of but a 1/4" plate inside the hole with a hole drilled in it and a nut welded over the hole pulling up and a U Shape from the top spanning to the edges .
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poidog wrote:
Maybe something like this? Using the 3 internal jaws to pull and the 2 legs on the flat area around it?
Just spitballing and brainstorming....
This is kind of what I was thinking of but a 1/4" plate inside the hole with a hole drilled in it and a nut welded over the hole pulling up and a U Shape from the top spanning to the edges .
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Vpfalcon wrote:
Can you get a fuel tap wrench under that seat? If you could maybe you could put a largish washer under the U in the fuel tap wrench, with a nut under it, 2 nuts above, threaded rod secured with a nut and large washer below, if you turn the lower of the 2 nuts above whilst holding the nut below, the threaded rod should start to turn, it might lift it.
Yep we're getting there .
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Kinda like this but smaller bolt and longer, working nites so lots of puzzling to put together.
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Lynn,
So the portion that floats free and defines the slot for the cables and wires - has been pulled down. Have I got that right?

If yes, why not just flip the scoot - take a long rod - put it in through the bottom race down by the mudguard end until it is up against the bent portion - and then whack it with a dead blow hammer a few times?

If anything - be careful not to over correct it - maybe clamp something flat on the top so that it doesn't go too far.

Am I misunderstanding?
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This is the tool I use to knock the races out of the frame
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and a 5 pound hammer
but seriously, I'm still confused by what Im seeing
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charlieman22 wrote:
Lynn,
So the portion that floats free and defines the slot for the cables and wires - has been pulled down. Have I got that right?

If yes, why not just flip the scoot - take a long rod - put it in through the bottom race down by the mudguard end until it is up against the bent portion - and then whack it with a dead blow hammer a few times?

If anything - be careful not to over correct it - maybe clamp something flat on the top so that it doesn't go too far.

Am I misunderstanding?
You have it exactly right , that is another resort I'm considering but if I can do it a bit more controlled I would prefer it that way. I know the bike has fallen over on the motor side a few times while fiddling it so just laying it over on its motor side and wacking it is an option, that is on the list.
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scootermarc69 wrote:
and a 5 pound hammer
but seriously, I'm still confused by what Im seeing
Yes that would work right along with what CM is suggesting.
Basically when I set up the rigging to pull the races into their homes , I over torqued and pulled the half moon that has no support that's up against the cables downward so when the race is in place and I put the bearing and first nut, the forward half of the nut is touching the bearing and is snug to the race and the rear half has a 1/8" or so gap between the nut and bearing.
You can see it in this photo , but it's worse now since I had last torqued them in place.
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every Vespa I've ever done the steering bearings on(maybe a dozen) had a tube that connects the lower frame race seat to the upper frame framish that centers said tube and keeps it square to the bottom frame race. The upper frame race is set into the top of the tube. You don't have that tube. Thats way it sunk into the frame. Your frame is missing this tube. By any chance is this a viet bodge?
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scootermarc69 wrote:
every Vespa I've ever done the steering bearings on(maybe a dozen) had a tube that connects the lower frame race seat to the upper frame framish that centers said tube and keeps it square to the bottom frame race. The upper frame race is set into the top of the tube. You don't have that tube. Thats way it sunk into the frame. Your frame is missing this tube. By any chance is this a viet bodge?
Who knows what or where it's from , but what you say makes scence. I'm had this stripped to bare metal and there's no indication of any shinagigans being done to the steering column, ie no weld of any sort , how else can that tube be removed?It's a 63 vbb if that makes a difference?
Can you take a pic of the cast pipe you have there of the tag for size reference?
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The VBB's had no tube connecting - so that floating portion is a little prone to bending.

Lynn - now reading your desire not to just whack it back in place - here is another solution. May be what you were thinking:

- Grab a socket that just barely fits through the hole that the bearing race sits in.
- Take your threaded rod and put it through the socket - with a double nut on it and washer - so that the socket will form a cup that is going to pull up.
- Take a piece of 1/4" steel or thicker and drill it larger than the threaded rod diameter.
- Weld a nut on top of that piece of steel.
- Now slide the socket in to the hole - and use it as a puller - that will level the bent portion with the rest as you turn the threaded rod.

Should work.
If it doesn't come up perfectly - shim the socket so that it puts a little more up pressure on the bent portion before bottoming out on the part you are trying to align it with.

You may have already had this - but that is the puller version I would use.
Best,
-CM
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1/2" pipe x 18"
1/2" cap
1/2" coupling
1/2" x 3/8(?)" reducer bush
bolt, nut, washer
Never did a vbb steering
Done vma, vna, T5, P, LX, GTS, VSE
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charlieman22 wrote:
The VBB's had no tube connecting - so that floating portion is a little prone to bending.

Lynn - now reading your desire not to just whack it back in place - here is another solution. May be what you were thinking:

- Grab a socket that just barely fits through the hole that the bearing race sits in.
- Take your threaded rod and put it through the socket - with a double nut on it and washer - so that the socket will form a cup that is going to pull up.
- Take a piece of 1/4" steel or thicker and drill it larger than the threaded rod diameter.
- Weld a nut on top of that piece of steel.
- Now slide the socket in to the hole - and use it as a puller - that will level the bent portion with the rest as you turn the threaded rod.

Should work.
If it doesn't come up perfectly - shim the socket so that it puts a little more up pressure on the bent portion before bottoming out on the part you are trying to align it with.

You may have already had this - but that is the puller version I would use.
Best,
-CM
This actually may work , kind of like a clutch tool but smaller, this is something to consider for sure.
And thanks for clearing that up with the tube from top race to bottom race not being on a vbb.
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scootermarc69 wrote:
1/2" pipe x 18"
1/2" cap
1/2" coupling
1/2" x 3/8(?)" reducer bush
bolt, nut, washer
Never did a vbb steering
Done vma, vna, T5, P, LX, GTS, VSE
Thank you I will get these parts as a backup if I decide to slam it with a 5lb hammer.
Glad you didn't do a vbb , I was lost in the woods for a bit there.
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dang...

fingers crossed for ya Lynn.
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Birdsnest wrote:
dang...

fingers crossed for ya Lynn.
Thanks appreciate it.
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Lynnb wrote:
r.
Glad you didn't do a vbb , I was lost in the woods for a bit there.
Same here, lol

No 5# hammer on vbbs then.
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scootermarc69 wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
r.
Glad you didn't do a vbb , I was lost in the woods for a bit there.
Same here, lol

No 5# hammer on vbbs then.
No slugging unless I have to.
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Don't overthink this. Use no more thread power... it's way too strong and actually harder to control - because you can't appreciate how much force it's applying.

A decent piece of dowel will work. I.e. a cut broom handle. And hitting metal with wood is actually a nice solution because it has some give and less likely to do more damage.

Also... please keep that file away from your paint!
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If you cut the dowel to the right length then you should be able to get your hammer swing comfortable. Lots of small hits. Don't miss. Get someone to hold the bike or sand bag it upright if it's a problem lying it down.
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Thanks Pleasant , I may have to take the more gentle approach first with the wood, the area for some reason does give the impression of being hardened .
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I dislike thread pullers. Used the AF Parts wheel bearing tool for the Pinasco axel seating I have. The f#%ker bound up 2/3 in so bad I had to cut it to remove it. While trying to undo it chipped the brand new axel seat. I was not happy.

Afterwards just grabbed an appropriate sized socket and tapped the bearing in the rest of the way without any issue.

I'm guessing swing arm mounts would tap in fine too.

One issue with thread pullers is that if the part you are pulling in loses alignment then you can't easily tell, can't fix the alignment with the puller, and it will bind. With a hammer and small taps you can gently guide the force and correct as you go.

I'm sure there are certain applications where a puller is the best/only way. But am very wary of using all-thread pullers as its really difficult to keep the forces exactly square.

Go the multi-purpose hammer tool.
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Sliding hammer to pull it upwards?
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Smack it out!
Turn the bike upside down and smack it out from the bottom end?
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