Modern Vespa

Actually after receiving the new exhaust I really checked how to unmount the *huge* original can (it looks humongous compared to the GRMoto) and it doesn't look that hard to unmount or re-mount. Probably takes a couple of f-bombs and dropping that pin on the tightening clamp a few times as you try to insert it with your fingers curved behind the swing arm, but seems easily do-able.

Will do tomorrow or over the weekend, take pics and record before and after sound.

Thanks for the advice in here, people!

Hey Team

decided to go ahead of schedule and install it. Here is the before and after sound:

Link (in case the above doesn't play yet again)
_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOHl_ros2gM&feature=youtu.be_ remove the leading and final "_" ...

Definitely stays on the perfectly legal side of things, but sounds fuller for sure. Haven't ridden around yet, but I don't expect any changes despite the claims in slightly improved horse power and torque... 3HP or so ain't gonna move 600lbs much faster

It is definitely MUCH smaller and MUCH lighter... see a side by side comparison!

Installation and fit isn't perfect. I see from online pics and vids different people install it a bit differently, some even saw off a little of the original manifold at the end... I certainly won't do THAT. I learned a few things and may fine-tune two things in a few days.

The original exhaust would pose the *much* bigger challenge to re-install. First of all, Piaggio seems to have an effing werewolf tighten the screws and clasps in the assembly line (possibly because of the weight?), and that clamp with the two cylindrical thingamigs would definitely be a *pig* to re-install, at least for me. Taking that bit off probably took me the longest and was the most challenging, but that may just be me.

Cheers!

PS: Rode it around. It does get a little rambunctious if you slam the throttle open. A bit louder on fast acceleration than I'd like, but definitely nowhere near open can sound mayhem (which we get here in California a lot from the cruiser and sportsbike brigades). Noticeable performance improvements? Naw...

As mentioned, no instructions come with it and if you look at online pics, people install it in different ways. [A] is the key visual...

It's really important to get the [1] "connector" in as much as you can on the main manifold. I spent a good deal of time punching it in (with a towel on the end as to not cut my hand, guess being very careful with a rubber hammer could work too), but it still would not go quite in as far as the original... I had 3mm or so left [sorry I live in the USA but I still use metric]. Getting the other end onto the GRmoto can is easy. They do supply the exhaust paste by the way, make sure you don't leave fingerprints with it all over the exhaust.

Why is getting [1] right important? Because otherwise the [2] adapter between the black spacer [3] to to fit the sleeve [4] around the exhaust will just not quite fit right.

Note that at first I thought they gave you two "spacers" so that the adapter would fit between the short and long one, but as you can see that's not the best fit, or at least wasn't for me, and I can't see how it'd be elsewhere although I have seen such pics online - maybe for a different model...

Well, hope this visual -which I haven't seen online- helps someone.

The other pic is just so you get a feel for how much smaller the new can is!


[A] Key Install Visual for GRmoto on 2019 MP3 500 ie Sport (US Version)

I'm sorry to say, but that thing sounds worse than the original stock muffler.

Question, is your bike wrapped or repainted in that dark yellow color?

from what I can see on the large clamp around the can your going to have a failure eventually. having the mount clamp so close to the header clamp is not really helping much. The exhaust end of the pipe is going to have alot of shack and vibration to it .
If it were me I would find a place further towards the middle to end to relocate the clamp to . take an example clue from Akropovic and where they place their mounts points at. AK does just throw something together and say here ya go you figure it out. They test and test and actually design their products for each application .

> I'm sorry to say, but that thing sounds worse than the original stock muffler.

No way, man. Poor running agricultural equipment sounds better than the original.

Plus once you take the original off, wow, you realize what a pathetic feat of non-engineering it is. It is *criminally* heavy, and this is just a 500cc engine with pretty low tuning! I still have the original final cans from my 1085cc bike in the garage, and the MP3 500 exhaust is significantly *heavier*!

> Question, is your bike wrapped or repainted in that dark yellow color?

This is California, best paint shops on the planet, people pay through the nose for custom jobs (I don't). Original owner wanted the original gold from the model that wasn't imported to the US, so got it done. It's one of the best paint shops, and allowed me to claim I didn't quite like it (although I do), which knocked down the price a bit.

> from what I can see on the large clamp around the can your going to
> have a failure eventually. having the mount clamp so close to the
> header clamp is not really helping much. The exhaust end of the
> pipe is going to have alot of shack and vibration to it .

It's a concern I share, and I will keep watching for changes.

That said, it's sooooo much lighter than the original that the obvious designs necessary to contain such mass at movement that Piaggio went through are not necessary (they should have invested that engineering into a lighter stock muffler).

I have tried to twist it around holding the end of the can, and for now there's absolutely *zero* movement and flex. I'll keep a watch on it, though.

> take an example clue from Akropovic and where they place
> their mounts points at.

I had ordered the Akra, and indeed both the engineering and instructions seem pristine. Then again it's well over twice the price, so it better be.

Unfortunately it is on back order and the dealer I made a deposit with doesn't quite know when it'll arrive. I ordered the current muffler to see if I'd cancel the Akra order, I won't.

Errr, that paint job is far from the gold flake flat metallic paint job Piaggio puts out. See pic below for comparison.

Also, your stock exhaust muffler is the older type. Is your bike a IE or a HPE model?

If it is a HPE, then somehow it had the stock muffler from a IE model. Very strange.

[quote="sbaert"] You obsess about weird stuff. 😂

I wasn't involved in the color choice, but it's excellent quality and works for me.

I think it's the IE but honestly I neither know nor care. It has ABS/ASR and is 2019. I never researched the difference between models since I got it used. Only thing I was interested in is whether it had the reverse gear they intro that year (it doesn't). They clearly limit the models and colors they bring to the US.

The reason for asking is because it has the seat and rear shocks from the HPE, but the engine appears to be the IE.

Somehow, the US always got weird model variations or parts bin specials (outdated models with updated bits thrown on) to comply with US Fed regulations since Piaggio has virtually no market footprint in North America compared to say Honda, Yamaha, BMW, etc.

I just checked, the US only got the HPE starting with model year 2020 while here in Europe the HPE replaced the IE as a 2017 model.

That it most certainly true, choices here in California are super limited. And in 3 months or so of ownership I haven't seen another MP3.

At first I thought I really wanted the reverse gear, but by now I think despite its weight the bike is easy enough to manage.

FWIW the manual for my bike says it's a "MP3 LT 500 i.e. Sport-Business ABS-ASR" which is kinda confusing because when Piaggio issued the original 2019 model announcement in the US they talked about "Sport" and "Sport HPE" models... (and the HPE engine supposedly is the only engine for the 2019 model year):
https://www.piaggio.com/us_EN/news-list/Piaggio-MP3-Sport-500-3-Wheel-Scooter-Arrives-in-USA/

Yeah, it is confusing.

There are a couple of other forum members who were led to believe due to dubious Piaggio USA marketing they got a HPE, while in reality they got a IE with the the HPE looks.

IIRC, one member even got Piaggio to take the "fake" HPE back and have it swapped out for the real deal.

Haha, guess I am one of those who got the i.e. with HPE looks I got it used so honestly not a big deal for me, but Piaggio should be ashamed of doing that to US customers, perhaps it's because there are so few and California supposedly is quite difficult/expensive about homologating new models (pretending they are stricter than Europe in environmental standards, which is complete hogwash)...

I'm gonna venture to say Piaggio used the miniscule North American market (for Piaggio) as a dumping ground for their stockpile of old engines they could no longer market in Europe since the IE motor is not Euro4 emissions + noise compliant and thus could no longer be sold there starting Jan 1 2017.

In addition, it saved them the money from having to recertify the new engine in the US for 3 long years.

I guess they would call that a win-win.

Expect a repeat performance soon, since all new bikes in Europe as of Jan 1 2021 now need to be Euro 5 compliant

Great points, agreed.

I seem to have observed motorcycle companies are greatly consolidating their portfolio, prolly a double hit of the covid recession and stricter Euro5 standards. Feeling the pinch. Yeah can't blame them for approaching the USA market like that, but it seems that way the US product is also cheaper than what's sold in Europe, in a direct Euro to $US comparison, which is not entirely accurate accounting wise for international corporations but yeah.

As I stated, Piaggio treats their miniscule US presence as a outlet center.

There is a reason why a brand new 2021 MP3 only costs $9199 USD MSRP (current price from Vespa Motorsport in San Diego) while the same bike in Europe has a 11489 Euro MSRP in Belgium.

Using today's conversion rate that is $13878 USD for said bike in Europe. In some countries the price is even higher (Holland for example)

That is a near $5K difference in the wrong direction. Simply put, the US bikes are the runt of the litter and get the leftover bits. Beats sending unsaleable bits to the crusher I suppose.

Good points and facts.

I am an European stuck in the USA for now. My likes very much tend towards the trendier Euro site of the market. Those don't seem to do well in the USA.

I was a huge Saab fan for my car choices, and we know how that went. When my trusty Saab 93 finally gave out at 240k miles (no doubt because of worse servicing skills as time went on), I got an Alfa Romeo - which rumor is shall be discontinued in the US again anytime (most Fiat/Alfa dealers that opened up early in the Chrysler alliance are now gone).

Vespa dealers seem to be holding out (although I barely see any around), but the Piaggio MP3 500 sales centers... I think there are only 2 within 200 miles of me these days. Clearly only a matter of time until they give up too, especially given the current situation, I must sadly assume.

That validates your assumption of the US market being a dumping ground. I'll take the scraps.

PS: I would have thought the California standards would have called for Euro4 in 2019 models, but clearly -as often- California is full of crap.

Not quite, what has actually happened is that Europe has taken the green pill and gone eco crazy or what I refer to as the policy of turning dog poop into pralines.

Just to give you an example, my MP3 is a 2015 (3rd gen a.k.a. current body style) and is only classed as a Euro2 vehicle. That is a jump of 3 levels in a 5 year span. Utterly batsh!t crazy.

Seems like the EU is hell bent on bringing bikes up to the same level as cars (they are currently at Euro6), with the intent to start restricting all vehicles based on age out of the cities and to encourage people to buy a new vehicle every 5 years.

In other words, they are now pushing electric everything (and burning more coal then ever before while closing down nuclear plants) in the same way they were pushing diesels down people's throats a decade ago even to those who were not suitable candidates for diesels as evidenced by the myriad of people who got saddled with cars that suffered from DPF problems caused by not being driven sufficiently or far enough.

Give it another decade, and they will probably then be banishing electrics for something else such as hydrogen. And thus the world keeps turning.

My V12 6 liter Mercedes from 1991 puts out the same CO2 emissions as a brandnew AMG GT twin turbo with a measly little 4 Liter V8.

I say put everybody in a decent car vs. these little sub 2 liter eco shitboxes that don't have any substantial fuel savings and are maintenance hogs / electronic headaches.

And don't get me started on the benefits of electric cars. Until battery technology exists where you can add a 300 mile/500km charge in under 10 minutes it's a niche market.

> Just to give you an example, my MP3 is a 2015 (3rd gen a.k.a. current
> body style) and is only classed as a Euro2 vehicle. That is a jump
> of 3 levels in a 5 year span. Utterly batsh!t crazy.

Indeed, I have ready many articles like this one: https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/features/bikes/euro-5-emissions-what-they-mean-to-motorcycles

To me it is bizarre to subject motorcycles -which are inherently more environmentally friendly- are subject to the exact same standards as cars.

> In other words, they are now pushing electric everything (and
> burning more coal then ever before ...

Yeah don't get me started on electric cars. Sire they don't *directly* produce emissions, but their production and their recycling (which we'll deal with soon enough) poses equal or more environmental challenges.

> My V12 6 liter Mercedes from 1991 puts out the same CO2 emissions ...

Sweet

>... maintenance hogs / electronic headaches.

Yeah, gone are the times when you could keep a worthy vehicle for a long time. With the electronics overload cars and motorcycles are throw-aways eventually.

> And don't get me started on the benefits of electric cars. Until
> battery > technology exists where you can add a 300 mile/500km
> charge in under 10 minutes it's a niche market.

That's a big point of debate I regularly have with my California friends. To me a car is about practicality, and just being able to drive 200 miles and then wait for 4-8 hours is silly. Can't go to the wine country for the day. Can't go skiing. Can't drive to LA. Don't waste my time...

Anyhow, for myself I kinda predict in 10 years or so I'll just have motorcycles (incl something as superbly practical as the MP3), and will do Uber/Rentals/SelfDrivingCrap when needed. I keep my trusty BMW R1100S because other than ABS is has no gadgetry, is eminently maintenance friendly and remains fun... with 100HP and a lot of torque it doesn't need traction and stability control, which you most certainly better have with the 170HP+ bikes they have out there these days, and which without electronic aids would prolly inflict mass casualties on the motorcycling community... I had such a bike and one day in the rain the electronics went a bit nuts... exactly when you need them most, and it nearly spat me out in a busy intersection and upon arrival at home I checked if I needed new underwear... I replaced it with the MP3 and am super-happy I did!

anyone have a paint code for this gold? wow thats a good scooter color for me.

Agreed, looks awesome.

Only thing I was able to find online was Matte Yellow Giallo (974/A, L7), but it doesn't seem to be it. They call it "Oro" on the piaggio.it website.

PS: I am not repainting my bike

Last edited by PabloLie on Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

vespa has a flat yellow. its nice. but a little too flashy for me. the gold just does it for me

I hate to say it but that looks like some kind of cf-print wrap on the can, and not necessarily actual carbon fiber?

It is carbon fiber.

Considering the price, the materials and craftsmanship are pretty amazing - it does look very good in person and is incredibly light. I was in a popular sports motorcycle spot last weekend, and got a surprising amount of positive comments. Experienced motorcycle riders are always very interested in chatting about experiences with MP3s.

As mentioned in a previous post, I have some concerns about the longevity of how it's attached.

Since I'm used to loud sport bikes and Harleys, and a little short on funds at the moment, I opted to remove the inner baffle from the stock muffler. It reduced the weight of the stock muffler a bit, and gives the bike a bit more aggressive sound.
Takes about an hour to complete the task. Follow the steps others have mentioned above to remove the stock muffler clamps, then drill around the edge of the inner exhaust outlet. Then tap with a chisel until the inner baffle comes loose. Free aftermarket exhaust modification!

I want to keep my pipes legally acceptable, it's also good for my hearing (i have worn earplugs on motorcycles all my life even so).

The current GRmoto exhaust is discoloring, carbon fiber will do that at exhaust temperatures but the high temperatures also make me assume it was not specifically designed for the needs of a 500cc one cylinder engine. It look suspiciously close to what they also offer to some 2-4 cylinder <600cc bikes Can't complain for the price.

But I am pulling the trigger on an Akro or some other higher end can. The quandary there is that my bike, while advertised as a 2019, it not an HPE model (see higher up this thread to see Piaggio's curious 2019 US model strategy). So if I order a higher end can... do I order it for a <2019 EU model, that's the IE... or not? Are the mounting points similar? I had a hard time fitting in the current one, which was a 2019 edition, but it was a simple attachment. I am worried that if it's more mounting points, model year specs may get more significant...

the yello of pabloie is
2019-2020Piaggio (TA15M) Israel ETRSL82IL5 ZAPTA1204 Yellow 976 / A (Business)
and only sold in Isreal !!!

The gold is only for the Sport Advance its called matt yello LE no paintcode number

2019-2020Piaggio (TA15M)NTRSLE1U31 ZAPTA1204 Matt Yellow LE (Sport Advance)

USa Model have vin starting with ZapTA10x

I originally put a MIVV can on my bike which was 1/2 the weight of the stock exhaust but I switched to the GRmoto can from e-bay and love it! It sounds great and I do fell a sense of performance increase.

Here is mine, fitted on.
I had to replace a couple of pieces of hardware to get the whole thing to line up straight.