Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:56 am

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1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Location: Philadelphia
Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:56 am linkquote
Decided to unhook everything and go through all the wires continuity.

Here's what I got:

Once the headlight wires were disconnected, I had no issues with those wires having continuity with each other or ground.

I then checked those wires with their counterparts in the switch.

Yellow had continuity with Purple and Brown so I moved the Yellow from #1 to #4 and no more continuity problems. Awesome.

Blue wire is the only issue now. Has continuity with ground, both at both the headlight switch and brake switch.

In the process of disconnecting all the connections, I broke the wire crimp tab on the brake switch. So I gave up angry at that point. The blue wire has connections at the switch, horn and Vape regulator right? Do I have a bad regulator?
Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:00 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
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Lucky
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Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:00 am linkquote
I seriously doubt you have a bad regulator. If you had a bad regulator, the issues would be seen throughout the system and would most likely manifest as voltage spikes blowing bulbs.

Now that you have it all apart, start by connecting power from the regulator to the handlebar switch. Verify that's working correctly, then start adding circuits and testing them one at a time.

It will seem slower, but get you there faster because if something doesn't work, you'll know it was whatever you just did, which will dramatically simplify troubleshooting.
Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:46 am

Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:46 am linkquote
Another way to tackle this is to get the bike running first. Adjust carb, and maybe clutch, and gears as needed. After the bike is running and can start with 1 or 2 kicks, then its time to check AC voltage and not continuity. Checking everything with a battery is OK but it doesn't verify if stator or regulator is working.

I don't think your regulator is bad either. It controls all power to the components and some of your components were working. A good way to know is to check the AC voltage going in the regulator is higher then the AC voltage going out the regulator.

While the bike is running check the voltage of the components not working. S/B 12 AC volts or less. Checking continuity verifies if wires are connected and power can flow through them. It does nothing with checking how much power that component is getting.

My guess is problems with the front switch and/or grounds somewhere on the bike. Example: Rear light should have a good ground to the bike with no rust or paint between the screw and bare metal. Also check the wiring diagram for the handlebar switch.
Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:18 am

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1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:18 am linkquote
Ordered a new brake switch and while I wait for that I started round two of electrolysis for the tank. First go worked ok but there was still a bunch of rust, as you can see below.

Hoping to plug away at the wiring later tonight after the kids go to bed.



Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:43 am

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Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:43 am linkquote
Second round worked like a charm, no more rust inside and half the paint is gone on the outside, so it matches the rest of the bike now!

Cleaned it up and gave it a coating of WD40 till I can get to the gas station later today.
Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:29 pm

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Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:29 pm linkquote
Tank is full.

Went back into the damn wiring. Decided to unplug the Vape out put and see if that changes anything…

No more blue wire continuity with ground with it unplugged.
Let's try switching the plugs and see if the issue comes back. Nope!

I had the original setup with the SIP speedo wires attached to the yellow wire seen below that now has electrical tape around it due to the splice. Moved them to the blue wires after the connection as per Rod's (rowdy) suggestion.

Is the splice causing the issue even with the electrical tape? How do I rectify that?


Disconnected from the black taped wire. No continuity with ground now. Switched to the non taped wire, no continuity still. Must be that taped wire yea?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:21 pm

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Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:21 pm linkquote
Got my throttle cable inners, gear cables and brake switch yesterday. Have all 3 squared away now. All cables outers are fully seated in the headset. Have a little bit of play in the throttle, I can't shorten the cable anymore if I don't want it to open up while turning again so I'll just live with it. And I'll double check the idle screw setting too as I don't remember how many turns out it was before I fiddled with it with the previous cable.
Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:26 pm

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Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:26 pm linkquote
Alternatively does the headlight tend to track towards the shoulder of the road, the whole headset actually not just the light?

After getting the cables squared away I decided to button up the headset to take a pic and needed the top cover on to tighten the gear cables anyways but I noticed that the front wheel and head light don't fully line up with each other. See below hopefully.


Here's the headlight facing straight ahead in line with the horn cast. See how the front wheel tracks to the left? That's bad maybe?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:43 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
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Mon Nov 01, 2021 6:43 pm linkquote
If you line headlight up with tire, do the handlebars line up straight or are they angled to the side? Not sure how the 1958 handlebar/headset works differently from px, but later px you just loosen the headset bolt and line the headset up with wheel before tightening the bolt.
Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:32 am

Hooked
1959 Allstate w PX Engine
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Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:32 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Alternatively does the headlight tend to track towards the shoulder of the road, the whole headset actually not just the light?

After getting the cables squared away I decided to button up the headset to take a pic and needed the top cover on to tighten the gear cables anyways but I noticed that the front wheel and head light don't fully line up with each other. See below hopefully.
First try to align the mudguard with the wheel as best you can by hand. You can loosen the two bolts if you need to, then tighten when squared up.
Loosen the headset bolt enough to rotate it to align with the wheel, then tighten.
Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:18 pm

Hooked
1968 VBB150
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Hooked
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Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:18 pm linkquote
Ray8 wrote:
First try to align the mudguard with the wheel as best you can by hand. You can loosen the two bolts if you need to, then tighten when squared up.
Loosen the headset bolt enough to rotate it to align with the wheel, then tighten.
Agreed-it looks like your headset is off a few degrees from the fork.
Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:13 am

Ossessionato
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Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:13 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Ordered a new brake switch and while I wait for that I started round two of electrolysis for the tank. First go worked ok but there was still a bunch of rust, as you can see below.

Hoping to plug away at the wiring later tonight after the kids go to bed.
I'm about to try my first tank electrolysis on 3 rusty af tanks I have. You submerged the whole tank into solution and attached neg to the tank while its submerged, and pos to the sacrificial metal? Assuming you do not want both pos and neg clamps submerged in water cause that would just cause the clamps themselves to collect rust?

two questions:

- is the sacrificial metal passed into the tank innards or just anywhere in the bath as long as its not touching? If not inside the tank itself.. does it affect the speed of rust removal?

- does it affect paint if you submerge the whole tank into bath and do this electrolysis process?
Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:31 am

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Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:31 am linkquote
Greetings:

It's been ten years, but I have done this with good results, Here. Not sure about painted surfaces, but oxidation comes off in a few hours or overnight.
Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:47 am

Ossessionato
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Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:47 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
I'm about to try my first tank electrolysis on 3 rusty af tanks I have. You submerged the whole tank into solution and attached neg to the tank while its submerged, and pos to the sacrificial metal? Assuming you do not want both pos and neg clamps submerged in water cause that would just cause the clamps themselves to collect rust?

two questions:

- is the sacrificial metal passed into the tank innards or just anywhere in the bath as long as its not touching? If not inside the tank itself.. does it affect the speed of rust removal?

- does it affect paint if you submerge the whole tank into bath and do this electrolysis process?
the electrolysis WILL remove the paint!
Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:08 pm

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9B1T
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Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:08 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
the electrolysis WILL remove the paint!
Thats good to know. I will fully submerge the ones I don't care about paint, but the others I will do with the solution just in the tank itself and flip it over to do each side, top and bottom separate.
Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:32 am

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1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
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Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:32 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
I'm about to try my first tank electrolysis on 3 rusty af tanks I have. You submerged the whole tank into solution and attached neg to the tank while its submerged, and pos to the sacrificial metal? Assuming you do not want both pos and neg clamps submerged in water cause that would just cause the clamps themselves to collect rust?

two questions:

- is the sacrificial metal passed into the tank innards or just anywhere in the bath as long as its not touching? If not inside the tank itself.. does it affect the speed of rust removal?

- does it affect paint if you submerge the whole tank into bath and do this electrolysis process?
I wrapped copper wire around the tank through the 2 holes that screw the tank into the frame. Just have to have the copper touching the metal is all you need.

You don't want the clamps in the bath at all. Red jumper cable goes to the rebar (or whatever piece of metal you use) and black attaches to the copper wire hanger that wraps around the tank. Also used that piece of wood to let it dangle in the bin. I ended up doing it twice. First time didn't get all the rust out but the second time worked REALLY well. Only thing I did differently the second time was mixed the washing soda much better in the bath.
I didn't experiment much but I am wondering if using more rebar would have sped the process up. Some videos had people putting 4 pieces in and Daisy chaining them together. I just used 2 pieces and clamped the red clamp to both at the same time.


I did lose some paint. Not much though and most of that was on the sides of the tank. Just rubbed some oil on it for now.
Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:41 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
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Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
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Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:41 am linkquote
more rebar would have helped. You want maximum surface area for the sacrificial material. Sheet iron works really well. I found some strips of 2"x6"x1/4" cast iron in my yard that I cleaned the rust off of and they worked great.
Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:36 am

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Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:36 am linkquote
I'm just thowing this out there for another option...

I know that electrolysis is the latest craze right now, but if your single and live by yourself, a quicker way to remove the rust is to put a few large handfulls of 3/4- (sharp) rock inside the fuel tank and throw it in the dryer for 30 minutes. My actual process is to put the gravel in the tank, wrap the tank up in a bunch of towels/pillows, stuff all of it in a carboard box, then tape it up tight! I set the timer up for around 30 minutes, then dump out the rock, then put in new fresh rock and repeat for another 30 minutes. I've done the electrolysis on a couple fuel tanks, and it worked well enough, but it works MUCH faster with gravel! The gravel method removes about 95% of all the rust. The last 5% of rust is so light that i usually don't worry about it. But you can always follow up with electrolysis after the gravel method.
Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:14 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
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Lucky
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Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:14 am linkquote
Starting with the wire-wheel-on-a-stick is even faster (5-10 minutes), will get you to nearly the same prep level for electrolysis, and let you stay married at the same time.
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:30 pm

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:30 pm linkquote
Still struggling with this damn blue wire having continuity with ground. It's in the harness, I unplugged everything at the junction box and tested all connections on both sides and only on the harness side still beeps.

In the switch the white (horn) wire also has continuity with ground. Didn't notice that before and it's a delayed beep when I test it so I'm assuming I just didn't hold the probes long enough to get it to beep. Blue wire beeps everywhere I can check.

Also regarding the white horn wire, when I disconnect the horn, it no longer has continuity with ground. Blue wire still does.


I'm out of my element with this and haven't even bothered with it in a bit. Every time I think about going to work on it I get overwhelmed and just go to bed instead. At this pace I'll be riding in the year 2473. I haven't the slightest clue as to how to solve this and it's bumming me out.
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:36 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
Another way to tackle this is to get the bike running first. Adjust carb, and maybe clutch, and gears as needed. After the bike is running and can start with 1 or 2 kicks, then its time to check AC voltage and not continuity. Checking everything with a battery is OK but it doesn't verify if stator or regulator is working.

I don't think your regulator is bad either. It controls all power to the components and some of your components were working. A good way to know is to check the AC voltage going in the regulator is higher then the AC voltage going out the regulator.

While the bike is running check the voltage of the components not working. S/B 12 AC volts or less. Checking continuity verifies if wires are connected and power can flow through them. It does nothing with checking how much power that component is getting.

My guess is problems with the front switch and/or grounds somewhere on the bike. Example: Rear light should have a good ground to the bike with no rust or paint between the screw and bare metal. Also check the wiring diagram for the handlebar switch.
I shall try the testing the AC with the bike running next I suppose. It kicks over fine and idles excellently, or did last time I tried. The Stator should be fine, it's brand new and Mr. Gick installed it all. I guess I'll find out when I run the bike and check the AC.

Tail light has good ground I think, I sanded the stud and epoxied the wire to that with silver based electrical epoxy. Now whether that grounds it properly to the frame is a different question I'll need to test out somehow. It does have continuity with all of the other ground points though, so I assumed that meant it was kosher.
Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:46 pm

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:46 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
Starting with the wire-wheel-on-a-stick is even faster (5-10 minutes), will get you to nearly the same prep level for electrolysis, and let you stay married at the same time.
That doesn't pertain to me...I'm single
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:01 pm

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:01 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
That doesn't pertain to me...I'm single
You lucky SOB
Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:39 pm

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Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:39 pm linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
You lucky SOB
HA!
Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:07 pm

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Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:07 pm linkquote
Ordered a power probe yesterday that should make this all a bit easier. Should have bought one last year.

It'll be here tomorrow and I'll get to work on the wires then.
Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:56 pm

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Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:56 pm linkquote
So today I tried to test the circuits. Battery died while it was plugged into the charger. Batting a thousand over here. Anywho before that died on me I tested the handlebar switch. Both the blue and white wires have ground continuity. I'm thinking the issue is the horn since those three wires connect there, but then I'm not sure since the blue wire has ground continuity starting at the junction box. Stator side does not. Only the blue in the harness side of the junction box has continuity with ground.

Too late to turn the motor over to do an AC test. Will try that hopefully this weekend.

I'm sick of typing the word continuity, honestly.


Here's the wiring diagram


Top left brass and bottom right brass have continuity with ground.


That corresponds to the blue wire and white wire on the backside

Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:29 am

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:29 am linkquote
Had a thought while falling asleep. Why don't I put in the other horn I have and see.

Nope still the same with the added bonus of when I reattached the first horn now the yellow wire at the switch has continuity with ground.

I'm so confused. Do I even need a brake light? I'll just ride it during the day! Problem solved.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:44 am

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:44 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
....
I'm so confused. Do I even need a brake light? I'll just ride it during the day! Problem solved.
Aw HELL yeah! Amen, I feel your frustration w/ electrogremlins all the way to here and wish I could help, but I've never had Vape.

I confess I've lost track here and I read back only a few pages... do we have spark, does the engine run? If not, let's may be do that for a while because ... how is your jetting today, your mixture and idle, is it easy to start and what's your timing set at?
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:25 pm

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Location: Los Angeles
 
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Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:25 pm linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Had a thought while falling asleep. Why don't I put in the other horn I have and see.

Nope still the same with the added bonus of when I reattached the first horn now the yellow wire at the switch has continuity with ground.

I'm so confused. Do I even need a brake light? I'll just ride it during the day! Problem solved.
Hey, put that yellow wire back to #1 at the switch. Your headlights won't get power without it there.
Your tail/brake light bulbs are AC?

Been thinking too...
Maybe you could get a little 120 to 12v AC (underline AC) transformer and use that as your regulated power tester(?). They're maybe 20 bucks on Amazon.
That's what I'd do.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:35 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:35 pm linkquote
The first thing i'd do is get rid of those scotch lock connectors.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:19 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:19 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Aw HELL yeah! Amen, I feel your frustration w/ electrogremlins all the way to here and wish I could help, but I've never had Vape.

I confess I've lost track here and I read back only a few pages... do we have spark, does the engine run? If not, let's may be do that for a while because ... how is your jetting today, your mixture and idle, is it easy to start and what's your timing set at?
Yes runs and idles a okay.
Jetting is:
60/160 pilot
116 main
BE3
160 Air jammy
Choke jet 60

Just kicked her over to check the AC current. Took a bunch of kicks but it was also bone dry so that was expected. So I got it running. Idles fine. Touched the power probe to both yellow wires that come out of the vape….

No more than 1.7v comes outta it. That's a problem yeah? I'd assume so anyways.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:53 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:53 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
The first thing i'd do is get rid of those scotch lock connectors.
Not me, no way! If it runs OK, the first thing I'd wanna do is go ride it a little to test run just because I CAN. Then I'd replace those damned scotch things as you insist. But if I CAN not ride, then I'd get sorted whatever is holding me back. NOW you may fuss & fiddle & fix with your light connections and horn, etc.

Now you have your tester, can check outputs as you said too, small progress already looks like.
Quote:
Touched the power probe to both yellow wires that come out of the vape….

No more than 1.7v comes outta it.
To ground? What is it between them? Did I see you say you have some lights?
Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:33 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:33 pm linkquote
V oodoo wrote:
Not me, no way! If it runs OK, the first thing I'd wanna do is go ride it a little to test run just because I CAN. Then I'd replace those damned scotch things as you insist. But if I CAN not ride, then I'd get sorted whatever is holding me back. NOW you may fuss & fiddle & fix with your light connections and horn, etc.

Now you have your tester, can check outputs as you said too, small progress already looks like.


To ground? What is it between them? Did I see you say you have some lights?
Didn't even know I had to ground it that's how bad I am at this! So double checked just now and have just over 12v coming in and going out of the VAPE.

Also I do have the tail light and high beam working and the horn works.

Went back and swapped the yellow wire back to #1. Now both lights in the tail light light up. At the same time. The brake light is always on. Still have the same issue up front with just the high beam works and only with the switch in the "off" position. Unless SIP switched what that toggle does? Either way only have power when it's all the way to the right. Middle and left gives me nothing.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:34 pm linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
The first thing i'd do is get rid of those scotch lock connectors.
I'm open to suggestions on what to swap them out with.
Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:44 pm

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Sat Nov 20, 2021 4:44 pm linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
I'm open to suggestions on what to swap them out with.
Anything but! I see Scotch locks as an emergency temporary fix to get you home. They are NOT very reliable at all! I would fix it out now before you go any further with your trouble shooting. I would use solder and an adhesive lined (dual wall) heat shrink over the top. You just installed a very nice ignition kit. A quality wiring job will complement it and keep it reliable for years to come.
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 am

Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
 
Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:58 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
Anything but! I see Scotch locks as an emergency temporary fix to get you home. They are NOT very reliable at all! I would fix it out now before you go any further with your trouble shooting. I would use solder and an adhesive lined (dual wall) heat shrink over the top. You just installed a very nice ignition kit. A quality wiring job will complement it and keep it reliable for years to come.
Ordered some of those, they'll be here tomorrow. Thanks for the heads up!
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:16 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:16 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Didn't even know I had to ground it that's how bad I am at this! So double checked just now and have just over 12v coming in and going out of the VAPE.

Also I do have the tail light and high beam working and the horn works.

The brake light is always on.
This is progress

As to the brake light...you can do a lot worse than having it always on. But you can also do better...

If the brake light is always on, then the first thing I'd do is check that you have the correct brake light switch.

The easy way to check this is to test if the brake light turns off when you press the pedal and activate the switch. If that's the case, you just need the correct switch*.

If that's not the case, we're back to playing "find the misconnected circuit." But the good news is that since you have the brake light switch in line, this should be easy to check.

First, pull the brake switch off so you can confirm that you have a Normally Open rather than Normally Closed switch. You have to look at the structure of it to tell, but when you look at the inside of it, you'll see whether the connection is made when the plunger is up or down, and that will tell you that.

Next, disconnect one side of it (just pull one of the little tabs out) and see if the brake light goes out. If it does, awesome. That means this is a switch issue. Get a good, correct switch and you're set.

If it does not, then we have actual work to do. First thing to check is that the wire is the same color at the brake light and the switch. Given that the only wires you really *can* connect at that point are the brake light switch, that helps a lot. And since it's just an inline switch, you can't get them backwards.

Report back on what you find out about the brake light switch and if it's not the switch, share a current picture of the switch (the inside of the housing and also the wires) along with the tail/brake light housing and wiring and we'll go from there.

You're making progress, even if it doesn't feel like it. The first time I did battle with the wiring on my VBB, it was about this frustrating for me, because the whole "Balanced AC" concept was so illogical to my modern, "Don't Waste Electricity" brain.

* The "correct" switch for your bike if you were ordering by looking at that "fits the following models..." would be a Normally Closed (Closed == power is flowing) switch, meaning that the power is flowing through it all the time, because the way that the OG electrical worked is that the brake switch was a short to ground on that circuit and so when it opened, the path to ground would be through the bulb and it would light up. If that seems to make no sense, it's because in the modern world, it doesn't.

So what you need is a Normally Open switch, which means that it only completes the circuit when you activate it (press the brake pedal), which is how modern, regulated systems work.
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:35 pm

Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
 
Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:35 pm linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
This is progress

As to the brake light...you can do a lot worse than having it always on. But you can also do better...

—-True.

If the brake light is always on, then the first thing I'd do is check that you have the correct brake light switch.

The easy way to check this is to test if the brake light turns off when you press the pedal and activate the switch. If that's the case, you just need the correct switch*.

—-Light did not turn off when pressing the pedal.

If that's not the case, we're back to playing "find the misconnected circuit." But the good news is that since you have the brake light switch in line, this should be easy to check.

First, pull the brake switch off so you can confirm that you have a Normally Open rather than Normally Closed switch. You have to look at the structure of it to tell, but when you look at the inside of it, you'll see whether the connection is made when the plunger is up or down, and that will tell you that.

Next, disconnect one side of it (just pull one of the little tabs out) and see if the brake light goes out. If it does, awesome. That means this is a switch issue. Get a good, correct switch and you're set.

—- Brake light went out when I pulled the blue wire. Well technically the blue wire pulled itself out… see pics below


If it does not, then we have actual work to do. First thing to check is that the wire is the same color at the brake light and the switch. Given that the only wires you really *can* connect at that point are the brake light switch, that helps a lot. And since it's just an inline switch, you can't get them backwards.

Report back on what you find out about the brake light switch and if it's not the switch, share a current picture of the switch (the inside of the housing and also the wires) along with the tail/brake light housing and wiring and we'll go from there.

You're making progress, even if it doesn't feel like it. The first time I did battle with the wiring on my VBB, it was about this frustrating for me, because the whole "Balanced AC" concept was so illogical to my modern, "Don't Waste Electricity" brain.

* The "correct" switch for your bike if you were ordering by looking at that "fits the following models..." would be a Normally Closed (Closed == power is flowing) switch, meaning that the power is flowing through it all the time, because the way that the OG electrical worked is that the brake switch was a short to ground on that circuit and so when it opened, the path to ground would be through the bulb and it would light up. If that seems to make no sense, it's because in the modern world, it doesn't.

So what you need is a Normally Open switch, which means that it only completes the circuit when you activate it (press the brake pedal), which is how modern, regulated systems work.


Here's a pic of the brake switch and tail light housing



First up the tail light housing and connections. Ground wire is silver epoxied to the stud.


Brake light switch with the plunger depressed as it would be at rest while installed on the bike.


And finally this would be how the switch is with the brake pedal engaged.

Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:01 am

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
 
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 4244
Location: Nashville
Fri Nov 26, 2021 7:01 am linkquote
OK...so the brake switch is correct. Tick that off the list.

With the switch disconnected, is the brake light still on when you test it?

Also, and this is a bit random, but the red wire on the brake switch and red wire on the brake look like they're different colors, i.e. different wire. Is that the case, or is it just a trick of the light in the pictures?
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:59 am

Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
 
Addicted
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 625
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:59 am linkquote
chandlerman wrote:
OK...so the brake switch is correct. Tick that off the list.

With the switch disconnected, is the brake light still on when you test it?

Also, and this is a bit random, but the red wire on the brake switch and red wire on the brake look like they're different colors, i.e. different wire. Is that the case, or is it just a trick of the light in the pictures?
No, the brake light goes out with the blue wire disconnected at the switch. The lower tail light is still on though.

And both reds are the same, took the tail light housing picture earlier in the day when the sun was still out so it looks a little different.


As an aside the SIP speedo has no power going to it either. But one thing at a time yeah? Brakes first. Speedometers are less important than brakes, or so I'm told!
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