Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:05 pm

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Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:05 pm linkquote
Thank you! I'll try that on the next one.

Now that it's pointed out I can totally see it.
Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:41 pm

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Sun Mar 27, 2022 2:41 pm linkquote
Ok got that dang plug ring sorted finally! Needed to wedge a flat head in there to keep it from spinning while tightening but I finally got it settled.

Anyone running the SIP 2.0 Speedo with the Vape ignition? I'm wondering what setting you used for the RPM set up in the speedo. On their video it says to use the P-2 setting for Vespatronic or Parmarket ignitions and P-3 for original ignitions. I think the video is out of date too because when scrolling through the adjustment screens mine don't match theirs so there's 2 screens I'm clueless on I think. I'll have to run through it again to figure out which ones I have different though. For now I'm on the RPM setting. I think I tried it on both of mmmmmmm the P-2 and P-3 but neither were right, they both were idling and the rpm's claimed 4900rpm, so I tried P-4 and that was closer but wasn't right still at an idle of 2600ish. I know it's lower than that because my other scoot idles around 1800 and this is slower sounding. The pop pop pop's aren't as quick anyways. My ears could be off though which is why I wanted to see if anyone could help! I'll stop rambling now.

I at least have the speedo set up for MPH's and the needle is for the speed not RPM's and set the tire circumstance. So I'm getting there! Once I get the 3rd speedo connection piece I may know my speed
Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:11 pm

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Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:11 pm linkquote
If you have the road/static timing ignition there is no need to change anything. If you have the sport/variable timing ignition that's when the other settings come into play.
Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:20 pm

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Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:20 pm linkquote
rowdyc wrote:
If you have the road/static timing ignition there is no need to change anything. If you have the sport/variable timing ignition that's when the other settings come into play.
I do indeed have the variable one.
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:54 pm

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Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:54 pm linkquote
Man was I naive! No speedo at all today. Didn't turn on when I rode to get some sandwiches for lunch.

It's always something.
Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:58 pm

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Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:58 pm linkquote
Also noticed that my rear tire is not very close to the center seam of the scoot. I can't imagine they were designed this far off, is my frame twisted possibly? I checked the front end before the build but not the buns. Anyways here's 2 pics to judge…


Whoopsie that's don't look a right


Seems….. off, no?

Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm

Hooked
1964 Piaggio Allstate Cruisaire
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
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Location: York, PA
 
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Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 pm linkquote
Loose swing arm bolt?
Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:53 pm

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Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:53 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
Loose swing arm bolt?
I'll double check that tomorrow. I do remember torquing that to spec. Or at least I think I did….

I do know the wheel is on the hub properly so it's not that.
Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:29 pm

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Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:29 pm linkquote
What options do you have for being that far off? You said wheel is installed deep dish side towards motor. My p200 and LML motor, don't have any left to right wiggle room, does yours have any spacers? Isn't there a few wheel options? How far is your tire from clutch cover? Mines maybe 1/4".

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Thu Apr 21, 2022 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:46 am

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:46 am linkquote
usually that lean seems to mean bad motor mount rubbers - did you replace them? most likely the pain in the ass ones at the front of the engine...
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:11 pm

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:11 pm linkquote
garncarz wrote:
Loose swing arm bolt?
Not loose. Torqued to 35ft lbs currently.
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:16 pm

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:16 pm linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What options do you have for being that far off? You said wheel is installed deep dish side towards motor. My p200 and LML motor, don't have any left to right wiggle room, does yours have any spacers? Isn't there a few wheel options? How far is your tire from clutch cover? Mines maybe 1/4".
I gotta double check the wheel just to make sure, always good to do that just in case.
I have no wiggle room either and no spacers. PX150E in a VNA frame.
Also have the FA Italia split tubeless wheels.
My friends VNB Allstate is still here in the shop and his wheel is just slightly off. Not sure what my issue is
Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:18 pm

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 4:18 pm linkquote
sdjohn wrote:
usually that lean seems to mean bad motor mount rubbers - did you replace them? most likely the pain in the ass ones at the front of the engine...
Interesting indeed. I looked at them before the install and thought nah I'll leave the originals in. Guess I'll be making a Clauss order tonight. I should have done them but didn't wanna mess with it. Now I have to. So it goes.
Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:44 pm

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62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:44 pm linkquote
Had to double check if it was an April 1st posting.
Think SDJ has that one right on the money.
Suspect you are going to find some very tired rubber.
When installing new: heat is your friend.
Freeze the bushings if you want.
Run the motor and get some heat into it - then drop and replace.
Lil heat goes a long way to making new easier to insert.
*Lotsa homemade tools from all thread have been created as pullers for old rubber if needed.
Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:57 pm

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 6:57 pm linkquote
Motor mounts definitley a possibility. Looks like you have a motor lean in addition to the extra offset. Also, if I remember correctly the FA tubeless wheels are +2mm offset....

Clauss motor mount install is super easy, no heat or puller required. The metal tube is separate from the bushing, so the busing pushes in; then the tube.
Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:04 pm

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Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:04 pm linkquote
I made the same decision recently, and the rubber in the engine side front mount where the weight is, proceeded to pretty much collapse after first rides. Motor sat on the piss just like yours.

If you hold the motor, like by the exhaust manifold or something and lift/ jiggle, the whole thing will most likely move around to confirm it. Mine did anyway.

Scoot looks great by the way.
Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:01 pm

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Sat Apr 23, 2022 6:01 pm linkquote
Well. Ordered the mounts and brought the scoot back into the shop. Look down and the speedo cable is dangling. Hmmm that's odd I know I put it on…. reach down and the dang thing broke off! SIP speedo 2.0. The plastic speedo driver (? The part that goes into the drive gear in the fork) snapped off inside.

Also I think the speedo doesn't work because I pinched the power cable when putting the top of the headset on.

I'm batting a thousand.
Thu May 05, 2022 12:28 pm

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Thu May 05, 2022 12:28 pm linkquote
Got the motor mounts in the mail on Monday. Finally had time today to get started. First I had to move some crap around to make enough room.

Pretty smooth sailing removing the cables and wiring and got the shock disconnected and the engine bolt is loose. Tan out of time this afternoon so I'll remove the engine tonight. Gotta take my son to jiu jitsu first.

Thinking the removal and install of the bushings shouldn't be too difficult. The shock one is in rough shape. Haven't seen the engine swingarm ones yet.
Hoping I get her back together so I can ride asap.



Fri May 06, 2022 8:00 pm

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Fri May 06, 2022 8:00 pm linkquote
Got after it tonight a bit. Swingarm bushings were pretty easy honestly. Just time consuming wrenching the threaded rod for like 20 mins. But the Clauss mounts went in easily.

Rear shock mount however is a bit trickier since my hub won't come off even with an air impact wrench. So I'm using the ol noggin and doing the reverse of the removal and pressing it in with the threaded rod. First go didn't work out, I have to cut down a piece of pipe so that the inside edge of the mount pops through the hole and it seats in the properly. Didn't wanna cut the tubing tonight so I'll get it in tomorrow.


First cut the thingy to be able to pry it out.


Pry baby pry


Threaded rod in and we're ready to pull the metal thing out.


I'd say these were the issue of the off center leaning rear end…


Won't go in any further.


Going to cut an inch or 2 off this to go on the inside of the shock mount allowing the lip of the mount to pull through.


Front ones in. Classy. Even paid attention to making sure the logo was facing the right way!

Fri May 06, 2022 8:48 pm

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62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Fri May 06, 2022 8:48 pm linkquote
Looking good.
Wondering if you have an edge inside the rear mount that the bushing is hanging up on.
One thing you can try - lube and heat.
Stunning how much it will help.
Did you grease the bushing before you tried to insert?
Sat May 07, 2022 6:10 am

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Sat May 07, 2022 6:10 am linkquote
charlieman22 wrote:
Looking good.
Wondering if you have an edge inside the rear mount that the bushing is hanging up on.
One thing you can try - lube and heat.
Stunning how much it will help.
Did you grease the bushing before you tried to insert?
Yeah there's a beveled lip on the bushing. That's what the pipe will be for, to allow that lip to push through since the washers just block it from seating in there.
No lube per the instructions on the bushing except inside where the tube sits. The front ones went in easily. They didn't have the lip that the rear one has. It'll get in there with the pipe I'm 100% sure.
Sat May 07, 2022 11:55 am

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Sat May 07, 2022 11:55 am linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Yeah there's a beveled lip on the bushing. That's what the pipe will be for, to allow that lip to push through since the washers just block it from seating in there.
No lube per the instructions on the bushing except inside where the tube sits. The front ones went in easily. They didn't have the lip that the rear one has. It'll get in there with the pipe I'm 100% sure.
You can use dish soap or talcum powder.
Sat May 07, 2022 2:33 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 2:33 pm linkquote
Mounts are all in. Excellent.
Wheel is still leaning off center. Not excellent.

So now I'm bummed. Pretty sure the frame is twisted a bit.


New motor and shock mounts installed. Not much of a difference.

Sat May 07, 2022 3:01 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 3:01 pm linkquote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Mounts are all in. Excellent.
Wheel is still leaning off center. Not excellent.

So now I'm bummed. Pretty sure the frame is twisted a bit.
What kind of shape are the two holes that the long engine mount bolt goes through?

Could the tail end be twisted a bit?
Sat May 07, 2022 3:26 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 3:26 pm linkquote
Take another pic while someone is sitting on it.
Sat May 07, 2022 3:39 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 3:39 pm linkquote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
What kind of shape are the two holes that the long engine mount bolt goes through?

Could the tail end be twisted a bit?
The holes are tight. No play and nice and round. I'm thinking the tail end is twisted yea. The glovebox cowl has an odd gap at the front of it. See below





Sat May 07, 2022 3:39 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 3:39 pm linkquote
Tierney wrote:
Take another pic while someone is sitting on it.
Will do when I get back home and get the seat back on.
Sat May 07, 2022 5:15 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 5:15 pm linkquote
Something looks strange with the frame. Are these creases and swelling points??



Sat May 07, 2022 5:54 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 5:54 pm linkquote
if you take the fork and engine out and sit the frame flat on the ground with no center stand, does it sit flat or rock a little?
Sat May 07, 2022 6:29 pm

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Sat May 07, 2022 6:29 pm linkquote
I'd agree that your frame looks torqued. I think it would be a difficult fix to straighten out the frame correctly. But that being said, I wouldn't be too concerned about how it handles (or if you even have that concern).

And FYI, I have a P frame that has those exact bends. It was the direct result of a full season of racing my P200 in the "mini supermoto" class. The (stock unmodified) unibody frame just couldn't handle repeated jumps and crash landings. My frame looks to have at least twice the amount of twist and torque as your frame, and it didn't bother me much when I used my P as a daily rider. No doubt it's a bummer, but you might not even notice any detrimental handling issues.
Sun May 08, 2022 2:40 am

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Sun May 08, 2022 2:40 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
I'd agree that your frame looks torqued. I think it would be a difficult fix to straighten out the frame correctly. But that being said, I wouldn't be too concerned about how it handles (or if you even have that concern).

And FYI, I have a P frame that has those exact bends. It was the direct result of a full season of racing my P200 in the "mini supermoto" class. The (stock unmodified) unibody frame just couldn't handle repeated jumps and crash landings. My frame looks to have at least twice the amount of twist and torque as your frame, and it didn't bother me much when I used my P as a daily rider. No doubt it's a bummer, but you might not even notice any detrimental handling issues.
Out of curiosity, do you think a person could build a frame on the right side to brace scooter against. Then used a hydraulic jack to press on bulge on left it would push tire closer to straight up and down? Looking that bulge spot is above left rear mount hole.
Sun May 08, 2022 8:11 am

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Sun May 08, 2022 8:11 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
I'd agree that your frame looks torqued. I think it would be a difficult fix to straighten out the frame correctly. But that being said, I wouldn't be too concerned about how it handles (or if you even have that concern).

And FYI, I have a P frame that has those exact bends. It was the direct result of a full season of racing my P200 in the "mini supermoto" class. The (stock unmodified) unibody frame just couldn't handle repeated jumps and crash landings. My frame looks to have at least twice the amount of twist and torque as your frame, and it didn't bother me much when I used my P as a daily rider. No doubt it's a bummer, but you might not even notice any detrimental handling issues.
Ya know I kinda had that thought as I was falling asleep too. Handles fine and never noticed the lean before I saw it. Swing arm bolt and shock bolt are both torqued to spec so it's not going to have the engine fall out. Only thing I'm wondering is will it wear the bearings out quicker since it's putting not normal pressure on the axle? I think it's still fine to ride. Until I find another frame to swap everything over to that is. But I don't need to be in a rush for that like I was first thinking. Ride it for the summer and keep my eyes out for a donor frame and keep on keeping on.


This picture has absolutely nothing to do with anything. You're welcome!

Sun May 08, 2022 8:13 am

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Sun May 08, 2022 8:13 am linkquote
swiss1939 wrote:
if you take the fork and engine out and sit the frame flat on the ground with no center stand, does it sit flat or rock a little?
If I remember correctly when I did the first tear down it did rock like a canoe.

I'm wondering if like said above, a PO used to take it off sick jumps on the farm. Maybe that's how the bottom bend of the leg shield got dented up. Landed on some sick boulders or something
Sun May 08, 2022 8:16 am

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Sun May 08, 2022 8:16 am linkquote
SaFiS wrote:
Something looks strange with the frame. Are these creases and swelling points??
Yea a tiny crease on the engine side. Glovebox side I can't really tell but wouldn't surprise me, not sure if it's a swell or just how it's supposed to be and the engine side making it look like a swell because that side is creased.
Sun May 08, 2022 10:41 am

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Sun May 08, 2022 10:41 am linkquote
Just went to the garage to have a look see. My tail is a bit off too. The P's have a bit of engine lean as well. That wonkiness in your pic is above and behind the swingarm.

Sat on the ground and pulled the tail with a foot on the tire. Got maybe a 1/2" straighter. Not gonna mess with it more than that. Even if you somehow got it straight I doubt you'd feel any riding difference.

That cowl is a mystery. It couldn't get positioned that forward with the original bolts. You could reposition it with new bolts and wingnuts, so maybe your stuff doesn't get dirty or wet.

Hope you have luck!


Cowl on original bolts.


Before pic.

Mon May 09, 2022 5:37 pm

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Mon May 09, 2022 5:37 pm linkquote
Yeah the cowl is confusing. It ends at the same spot as the engine cowl too. And there's no buckles other than the slight bulge (hehe) on that side.

I did find some more evidence tonight!

No clue. Aside from someone maybe doing wicked jumps and hit something at the bottom of the leg shield. There's no evidence of anything smashing the side or rear that I can find.


Here's the original crease from a side angle. Shows it's a bit long.


Above the bellows another crease here that goes back further into the engine nook.


Here's how far back this one goes.

Mon May 09, 2022 8:05 pm

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Mon May 09, 2022 8:05 pm linkquote
based on what you've shown, that frame is MosDef torqued in the back end. It could be that just the tail + upper portion of the rear frame are tweaked. Maybe the Engine bolt is still aligned were it should be, which would meant that your rear tire tracks fine with the front. So it might not be a deal breaker, but is still probably not what you wanted to find out after all your hard work...
Mon May 09, 2022 11:39 pm

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Mon May 09, 2022 11:39 pm linkquote
If it is torqued from jumping, take a close look for any sort of distortion in the frame at the upper shock mount area.
Tue May 10, 2022 5:18 am

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Tue May 10, 2022 5:18 am linkquote
whodatschrome wrote:
If it is torqued from jumping, take a close look for any sort of distortion in the frame at the upper shock mount area.
Nothing there. That was my first thought. Who knows. I'm gonna rock it as is until I find a donor frame. It's more a mental thing now than a structural thing. It just looks off so now I can't look past it.

And like GeekLion said- not what I wanted to find at the end of all of this. But it is what it is. Not gonna let it bring me down too much. I'll start saving some cash and looking for a non twisted friend to join the stable.
Tue May 10, 2022 6:50 am

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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 5884
Location: San Diego, CA
Tue May 10, 2022 6:50 am linkquote
I'm still trying to digest that your rear hub won't come off - are you going to solve that? Because that seems like an issue that needs solving.
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