Modern Vespa

other side of the leg shield. big ol crack. except not really THAT big

and maybe the worst of it:

moving on from there here's the rear brake stuff, looks gross in there!

busted weld on one of the wheel studs... gonna need a new one of these.

do I need a special tool to remove the clutch? It's pretty rusty in there.

gear selector box is all cleaned up now

as is the carb

and anyone have any tips to remove the flywheel? the nut on here is some inbetween size (like 13.5mm) and has a weird piece of metal behind it making it almost impossible to get anything to attach to that nut... is there an alternate way to remove the flywheel?

new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into. sigh. either way that piston is stuck in TIGHT. soaked it since Nov6th till yesterday and it didn't seep in AT ALL. Still had the same amount of oil I put in. So looks like it'll be an engine swap happening. Unless I split the cases and can free it. Even then though what more can I do to it to get it running? I'll need a new cylinder and piston and may as well just save that cash and get a P engine and then shelf the stocker in case I wanna go back to the original set up (doubtful, but never say never!)

That's lovely! The Legshield on my '70 Sprint has the same damage- caused by the steering stops being damaged which lets the headlight hit the frame.

Anyone got any tips on removing the floor rails? Like a how to video maybe? That's up next while I wait till Wednesday to order tools and such.

Can't do much else till I get that castle (is that what it's called?) nut off the clutch and all.

I don't have a video, but if you use an old wood chisel with the wedge towards the bottom of the scoot, at the rivet, and give it a tap, usually it'll cut that soft rivet clean and then you can just pop it out with a punch or awl.

Hope this helps.

Perfect. I'll tackle that tomorrow night. Thank you kindly

Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.

My shaft doesn't have any indents though.
I'll post a pic shortly to show ya

Without looking at the shaft I now understand what you mean.... I'm an idiot. FFS how did I miss that?

We've all been there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4

Ha! Reminds me of just the other day Chris and I were pulling off his flywheel to get to the stator while timing his 64 allstate. We've already done this a couple of times, so this time I thread the tool on and proceed to crank down on the bolt to pop the flywheel off...and....it's not coming off.

WTF????

Lets put a bigger wrench on it - yeah, that'll fix it!

Nope.....Hmmmm.....

Remove the puller...The nut is still on, holding the flywheel in place!

Doooohhhhhh!!!!

Now the nut is muchroomed to a 15mm.

Fortunately we didn't rip up any threads, just a mushroomed bolt. Just goes to show, we all do boneheaded maneuvers now and again!

Also make sure you have the older style lever to match your motor, w/ splines 360 degrees that you can install whatever angle you want, and NOT the more common one with teeth only opposite the clamp bolt that only installs in one position and won't fit.


But you need to remove flywheel, split motor and remove stuck up crank, rod, piston and cyl I think. Do NOT try to kick it over with the kick start until it's turning free. You'll just be buying another one.

Be sure to mash that sheet metal retainer behind the flywheel nut down tight, you gotta remove that nut first. Then flywheel could be pulled w/ a generic puller used properly and bolted securely into those tapped holes. Use penetrant and a little heat in the center, then tap sharply on the end of the puller screw down center bolt as you slowly tighten it. Should pop off. Eventually revealing this perhaps, and your cylinder is borked anyway

such a good movie and very appropiate in this instance!

V oodoo- Yeah I have the correct full splined one, Just didn't realize to put the lever on all the way and the screw slides into that space between the outer and inner grooves that's got no groovy.

and correct also, I have to tear the engine apart and remove the frozen cylinder and piston concoction. I only got the new lever to see if a little bit of leverage would get it to budge at all. At this point I'm not even gonna bother, and just split the cases when the castle nut tool arrives with the fork tool too.


got the floor rails off though! easy as cupcake with the chisel. Accidentally sucked up one of the rail ends in the shop vac though. Sigh. I'm not going inside the bag though-- too much lead dust in there already and I've got 2 young kiddos. Need to replace them anyways, they are beat to crap.

Tried to put the kickstart lever on just because and it def doesn't fit. The screw is way to big to fit in the channel on the crankshaft, the original one slides right in but is too short to use on the new one.

Oh well. Not worrying about that at all anymore.

Got the brake pedal off finally too tonight

also: How do I pull that flywheel if there's no threads on the inside ring of the flywheel? There's nothing to attach the tool to?

I'm stumped there.

There are threads in there FM, rusty as they are. When you get the tool, you'll see.

I believe that's the older, self-extracting flywheel that needs the circlip in place as you back out the flanged-nut. I think I see a groove for a circlip in the picture.

https://scooterhelp.com/tips/engine/flywheel.old.vespa.html

I agree, but a standard bolt down puller could work too, especially first time. But needs to be done carefully!

Also needs that damn weak link, sometimes works fine snapring too, when it goes back together. Along with the proper nut w/ big flange, which looks to be missing and would explain all this:

The flange is there on the nut, that rusty "wing" is covering it. I had to chisel that off in order to get the socket to actually sit on the nut, even then it was angled on. Luckily I have an impact wrench so it came off easily with that but any other way most likely would have stripped that nut. That weird wing was part of the nut or was rusted on so much that it decided to get married? Could go either way.

There's no circlip and no threads for a puller tool. WTH?

Just double checked. There's a small groove near the top of where threads should be for the puller tool but aside from that it's as smooth as my kids bunz.

There is a little notch at the bottom where the circlip should be, I think you can see it in the pic. it's about the 4pm position. But there's no groove aside from that tiny hole.


What in the world is holding this thing on lol? Magic?

It has been drawn very tightly onto the taper on the end of the crank by the nut you removed. The woodruff key hidden inside only locates the flywheel properly, but it depends on that precise fit on the taper to provide all the driving force for the flywheel. This makes it tuff to remove, especially first time.

The correct nut and snap-ring, as shown above by Markos will do the trick usually, so get those as you should have them anyway and it 'should' then come off. The newer screw in style flywheel remover tool works well, but you can't use it on yours.

Ordered them along with the fork and clutch tools and new rubber set today, should be here next Wednesday.

So I'll put that snap ring on then put the nut back on then remove it and it should pull off that way?

Edit: forgot to add that when I removed the nut there was only a lock washer under it. Makes me wonder if a previous owner was in there and lost the snap ring and just used a lock washer instead and forgot about it

Actually, that lockwasher first, then you'd torque the nut down to spec if installing and that damn snap ring goes on LAST, but you'd figure that out soon enuff. Clean out the groove as good as you can, and install the snap-ring with sharp edge facing out, or it may pop loose next time you wanna remove the FW. Might do it this time anyway if it's real tight and you don't rig it with some way to tap end of crank safely as you carefully increase tension on the nut (brass punch thru hex drive socket hole for example, I used a std socket & vise grips in a jam. I finally found a deep box wrench that's perfect). The penetrant and heat on the FW can help, but avoiding heat at nut and crank. Good firm taps, but don't wreck the threads or bend the crank, should just suddenly pop loose but don't lose that little woodruff key.

I really love those unique VNA engines.

If soaking them overtime abs hitting the pistons with a piece of wood does not prevail:

Option 1:
That being said, set the cylinder up in a press and use oxy-acetylene to heat up the cylinder. Then press out the piston.

Option 2:

Break out most of the piston and then use a boring bar to remove piston to wall. You are going 1st or 2nd over, so this part is fairly easy.

Option 3: but a good used VNA cylinder and a new piston. It may need bores, but the piston is not stuck either.

I like option #3, this poor old cylinder may be past its useful service life. and I hate it when that happens too!

Can anyone explain why the Pinasco 177cc 2 port cylinder wouldn't work on this case?

I see it listed as a 2 port kit so it should work but I see no info saying it will work with a VNA engine case.
Just wondering really. Seems like it should be compatible.

you have no rotary inlet on the cases. this is a piston ported motor, the carb feeds the cylinder directly-it sits right on top of it.

the Pinasco cylinder is not piston ported.

ahhhhhhh that makes total sense. I couldn't find that info anywhere thank you!

Bad News.

So that means it's a mandatory engine swap.

Even tried a torch to get it to break the seal. Nothing worked
So I gave up and just removed it. Dammit. Guess it's pointless to even bother trying to remove the crank and what not

Or option #3. Find a good used cylinder. In the meantime I'll start saving for a 200cc engine, since I assume a VNA cylinder is like a unicorn since it was only made for what 2 years?

What is bad news about this?

Just an assumption with a VNA cylinder being difficult to acquire. I could be off base but it seems like it'd be sometime that doesn't come up often?