Modern Vespa

Looks awesome.
Such a cool outcome.
Speedo: are u running stock ignition?
Ac? Apologies if already previously noted…


Some form of small capacitor/ battery might make it much happier?

What's your ignition/power system?

Thanks! I love the look, now just gotta get it running real well so I can love that part too!

Vape ignition, AC power, with the Koso ac/dc converter
No worries about needing to repeat the set up, there's now 27 pages on this one, easy to get lost.

Hoping I just fried the black box. If I get that and it doesn't resolve it I'm done messing with it and going back to analog. Would be nice to have the rpm, temp and fuel gauges in one unit though. All the wires are hooked up properly and it's getting power, at least intermittently, which leads me to believe it's the power box causing the issue. Frustrating. I spoke with SIP and the response was that the unit can get fried with the volts coming from the unregulated VAPE. Which did happen when I hooked it up wrong the first time and was blowing all the bulbs.

Hope you get it sorted out soon! I'm sure you'll get it running as good as it looks.

Did a little tinkering today and installed the center stand relocation bracket.

Which is great, except the fact that the stand isn't wide enough. So in order to get the stand down I have to reach under the floorboard and push it down till my foot can find it.
And while I waited for the rubber mat that I put on the underside of the bracket I decided to figure out why the carb box was all leaky. Nothing helped seal that so I got some permatex aviation gasket maker stuff. Seems much better now. BUTTTTTTTT why won't my carb slide close now? Torqued the carb to 15nm and went 1/8 turn on each bolt till they were set. Took carb off and the slide slides smoothly with the carb out.
Checked the oil pump and found something there.
The throttle arm gets stuck when rolling off the throttle. So I disconnect the oil pump by removing the carb again and the carb box. Remove the three screws and pull it up and off. The arm slides super smoothly so it's not that. Put it back together and same thing. Sticking. When the lid is on the oil pump set up, that arm sticks. When off it's fine. What could be causing the cog to stick?
It never ends.

Today I worked on the carb again trying to figure out what's going on. Pulled the carb out again and set it down on a flat surface and whoa boy was that not flat. So I busted out the 220 sandpaper and a mirror and got to work lapping the bottom. Got it damn near perfect and reinstalled. Even worse with the slide not sliding. So I take the slide out and sand that down too. Sides and bottom. Reinstalled into the carb and it slides super smooth. Install in the bike and nope. Sticking still.

At this point the oil pump, cover, tube, and carb have all been ultrasonically cleaned. Lapped the bottom of the carb flat as well as the slide.

Next I checked the throttle cable. Removed the end from the carb and tried to move the slide by hand. Not happening. If I remove the idle screw and close the slide all the way it sticks a bit coming from zero. Then when the throttle cable carrier thing is let go it won't return all the way back to zero. Zero being no gap between the slide and carb chamber. If I put the idle screw back in and open it to 1.5 turns and pull that carrier it gets stuck as well just before it gets back to the idle screw setting.

I'm not sure where to go from here. New carb or oil pump lid? Throw the bike in the river and cry myself to sleep?

maybe try another carb box? that screw holding it down looks weird, don't they usually to into a recess?

That screw is the oil pump lid screw. None of those are recessed, the one that holds the carb box to the engine case is recessed. It's under the carb gasket.

Ah yes, totally correct, I've not really looking at auto lube parts since my p200 left, and even that one was disconnected.

Arm is bent. If it were bent the other way, there would be more clearence.

I've had to throw away a couple 24/24 carbs in the past because of warpage. Like what jack said, definitely make sure the throttle slide arm isn't causing the binding first. If that's not the case, then i double make sure that i don't have multiple carb base gaskets. I'll also test fit the carb fit no gasket to try to feel exactly where the binding may happen. Rather than file the slide, i have filed the slide slots in the carb with good results. In my experience, if none of those things work, then it's begrudgingly off to the bin!

You're talking about the oil pump arm right? Just don't wanna assume. I think that's what's bent but just wanted to double check with you before I order one of those.

You can just bend that arm back. No need to replace it unless you really want to.

I'll give it a try. Doesn't seem to be off by too much

Hey FM,

I had to tweak that slide arm (wire part that's rubbing in your picture) a bit to get it to operate smooth, and a drop or two of 3-n-1 oil on the oil pump shaft. Just squirt some under the oil pump arm and wiggle the arm to get the oil in there.

That loosened things enough to get it to work properly. And I've had to do the same on four scooters so far....

After lots of fiddling I got that dang throttle arm working. Got the CHT gauge installed in the cylinder head by using the much beefier Koso one. 10mm compared to 4.5mm that the SIP speedo probe is.

Sealed up the carb leaks, which was pretty much every connection. Oil pump gasket, carb gasket and carb box to engine case gaskets all were leaky. No more thanks to Permatex gasket maker.

So since it's criminally nice out today I rode to that hardware store to get a wire wheel for my bench grinder so I can clean up some hinges on our 9' parlor door. We fancy in our little mansion…

So I cruised around for 18 miles. The hardware store is just over a mile away…. It's too nice out to just do that errand! And I probably won't get another nice day till at least mid to late March if I'm lucky. So I took advantage.

Still have bogging under 1/2 throttle. I'll get to that when it warms up and I can devote a day to just that issue.
Another issue is the SIP speedo works now? I don't understand how or why but I'm taking the win.

I only wish I didn't have to pick both kids up so I could have stayed out longer. Next time.

Back on this bullshit.

Had lots of oil under the scoot so I re did the gaskets,again. For the third time. Gasket maker coating the box to case gasket since that's where the issue is I think?
SIP speedo was not working the last two rides, intermittently coming on and off randomly. Got a new power box thinking I fried mine and so far so good. We shall see.

Also in the carb box, I only have one turn of adjustability of the idle screw? I tried loosening the throttle cable all the way down as loosely goosey as she goes, and I went from a 1/2 turn of opening of the slide to 1 turn of the idle screw. I took the screw all the way out and closed the throttle and still only get 1 turn of idle adjustment. Is this normal?
If I run the throttle cable loose as can be I have A LOT of free play at the lever, 1/4 throttle a lot before the slide moves. So I know it's not that the cable is too short. Any guesses?

Now that my Speedo works I can see what my idle rpm is. I'll check that tomorrow, it's gonna be hotter than satans armpit tomorrow again.

You've ruled out the cable.
When you tighten things - it get's pair shaped - literally.

Something seems to be warped.
Airbox.
Carb body.

Perhaps un-torque each separately - and see if the sticking ceases.
The studs and screws are all steel.
Tightening nuts and screws will re-shape the aluminum.

Something is getting out of square when you tighten.
It's keeping things from returning to zero nicely - like on the bench.
You're close to finding.

Thanks! It's gone the way one would expect. One step forward 15 steps back. So I redid the torque. Didn't change the issue. Went as low as the specs suggested there. Seems like the oil pump arm won't let the slide close all the way, or the inside of the carb is twisted a bit. So I got new inner cables. Then remembered my shift tube was wiggly…. It's the screw on type VNA1 style. So no way to adjust it, maybe there's supposed to be some type of washer in between the shift cable carrier and the stem? Anywho I have a second headset so I decided to swap the bars….

We shall see how far this snowballs outta control.

Once the slide is fixed, the issue with exhaust stub spooge is always the pilot jet being way incorrect.
What's in there now?

Jacks got you on the spooge issue.

Two options to sort out question on the carb:
1. if you simply take the cable off at the carb - with the carb torqued down - does the slide close all the way.
2. If simpler - don't just set torque to spec - instead completely loosen the collar nuts holding the carb down. Does the slide close by itself the rest of the way?

Any chance you did some sanding on the slide to "clean it up"?

60/160 is in there currently

1- it does not. I have the give the oil pump arm a little love to get it to go all the way back.
2- nope to this test too, sticks either way. And I double checked to make sure it's not the actuator arm getting caught on the oil pump cap. So that's eliminated at least.

And I did do some sanding on the slide…320 grit on glass and went slow slow slow. when it was catching before I tried that and bending the slide arm thingy. Neither has solved the issue.

Hmmm.
Are there any conditions under which the slide returns to zero by itself? Apologies if you've already written about it.

Is it possible that the slop slide goes into has a gouge of some kind in it or a bur?

Given the overall set of symptoms, I'm guessing the carb body is warped and it's good for nothing but the trash pile or a bodge.

I've had a 24/24 carb that was warped. It caused the slide to stick ONLY when the carb was torqued down. But when i completely loosened the screws, then the slide would slide perfectly. I think what i ended up doing was filing down the portion of the carb body where the side sludded (yes, i just made up that word).

I will double check the slide innards this weekend. Just got home tonight and gotta be up at 6am for a hockey game.

It was a brand new carb but I have been needing to take it off and back on a bunch with leaky gaskets and such. Maybe I did warp it. Sucks. I tried torquing it slowly and surely. I must not have had that mindset early on I guess.

Will report back soon.

60/160 could be ok but depends how it's set up.

Probably asked before but what's the spec of the engine?
What are all the other jets?
Slide number?
Filter/drilled?
Carb type?

Need to get the slide working right first or there's no chance.

Vmc 177
Transfers matched to the cases, and carb inlet matched too.

120/BE3/125
60/160
Slide number 04
Pinasco 24.24er carb.

I did just pull the carb completely out of the engine and the slide does slide all the way to closed. If it's in the box with the studs loosened all the way it'll return to closed once every 7 or so pulls of the throttle arm.

Thinking a new carb is on order.

Gonna try this now. Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I definitely have to get a new carb

This is the area I sanded down (not the bottom).
Both sides equally. Maybe 1mm(?)

Just did that again. About to torque down the carb to check, but wanted to check and see about this question- should the slide, slide in and out freely with nothing attached? So just sliding the slide into the carb should it slide back out easily when you turn the carb vertical. Should gravity be enough to slide it back out or do you gotta massage it a little on everyone else's non bent carbs?


Edit: just torqued it down to 15nm or 11ft lbs and it slides closed with no help. No cable is attached yet though.

Yes, it should slide right out.

Thanks! New carb it is. Even after sanding the slide down to where it'll close all the way, the slide sticks in there. It usable for now at least… but I'll have to order a New one.

Don't give up the ghost yet
That's a good carb (BGM faster flow is better ).
Sand those areas to the point that it slides freely in and out by gravity.

New SI's (all Spaco, or branded/reworked Spaco's) are soft as F.
1/4 turns to full spec, favoring the bolt away from the slide.

Think we must have done this before, jetting looks good. Now the carb is sliding again. Check the main jet, hold it wide open in 2nd. Use a jet that splutters and won't rev out, then reduce to one that just about does.
After that adjust the mixture screw. This is the easy way. Turn the idle screw all the way in, then out one turn. Mixture screw 4 turns out. Start it up. Should be smoking like a train and idling too slow or stops when you let the throttle go. If it idles ok fit a bigger pilot jet small number. When happy it's rich enough, idle screw in a bit more. Mixture screw in slowly until the rpm picks up and idles too fast. Stop. Adjust idle. Trim further when fully hot during a long ride.

I've got the main down to 125 from 135 where I started for the sorting of that jet out. Looking like March is a wash for getting any riding in, so hopefully in April we'll be above 45° (aka 7° for you weirdos who use Celsius like weirdos… everything else metric I'm on board with, just not temperatures.)
Once it's okay out again I'll get to that idle jet tune.

I've got time as I'm swapping handlebars currently. I have 2 sets, VNA1 type that the throttle and shift tubes thread onto the stem and the VNA2 type which is a press fit type. No threads. Anywho the threaded shift tube has been loose forever. Wiggles a bunch in the headset and if I thread it further down so it doesn't wiggle then there's no movement at all cause it's bottomed out in the threads. VNA2 type have no wiggle. Swap time!

Got dang it. In order to do that I need new inners…and if I'm taking the headset off to switch bars I may as well replace the bearing cup on the fork which has been deformed since I got it and I can not get the fork to fit snug. It also wiggles. And if I tighten the bearing thingies, it's too tight to turn the bars at all. So ya know how it goes.

One positive are no leaks of oil from under the carb currently. 3 days strong and no drips!

Got the headset stuff sorted tonight. I made it my goal to get some therapy tonight and at least swapped the cup for a new one. Got new inner cables too that I'll try to get to soon. Been having a rough go this past week, my son has a horrible infection around his eye. He's been in the hospital all week and is finally winning the battle. Tell your loved ones you love them tonight. They can go at all time.

And if I may vent - fuck this planet that does this shit to kids. Fuck it.

Sorry, the grief hit last night. Saw his personality come back finally a little and it just hit me like a ton of bricks of how bad it was.

I'm glad I have a Vespa to keep my mind occupied off of replaying him suffering in my head over and over. I think it broke me.

Thanks for helping me along this journey everyone. My son and I are going to build that VBB motor this summer. I can't wait even more now.

Damn brother, hang in there. Tons of love to you and your family...

Thanks sir. And I forgot to add the damn picture!

Good news, he's home and feeling much better finally! We were discharging Friday night.