Modern Vespa

There's a couple of scoots on eBay requiring restoration and I'm looking for a winter project. See links below. Are parts readily available for both of these and which one would you recommend? Personally in leaning towards the VBB but that's just on looks.

Thanks in advance.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Piaggio-Vespa-VBB-150cc-Italian-1963-Project/293815013727?hash=item4468bd515f:g:A~oAAOSwra9fjKka

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1970-Vespa-150-super/333777323013?hash=item4db6adc405:g:d2AAAOSwPGBfoohW

I would stay away from the blue Super. It looks like something shady is going on with that horncast. Bondo? Shoe Goo? It's also rocking a GL cowl which is rare, but makes me question its history even more.

I don't see any obvious red flags with the VBB. Chromed gas tank cap and lots of wrong bolts make me suspicious. I'm not saying it's NOT a bodge.

Both are crap. Stay away...

Co-sign.


Both Asian junk.

Thanks folks, appreciated.

You could change your thread title to:

"Looking for shifty Vespa and need your HELP, please - England"

Just click EDIT.
You'll have dozens of sets of eyeballs on the lookout for you! Good luck .

I read it as shitty Vespa the first time.

So basically don't touch anything that has spent any time in SEA?

Basically. They are a serious gamble with the odds in the casinos favor. Like putting all your chips on one number in roulette probably has better chances.

Have a read of the stickied thread "bodge spotting" above.

Sorry - the "things to consider before buying thread" that is.

There is a thread "bodge spotting" on here where the members make sport of spotting them in all their unholly glory.

From what I can tell, a lot of what's exported from South East Asia, takes bodgery to a whole new level. Like the welds, or whatever that is under the spots, pointed out earlier in the thread. I think there just getting cobbled together and sold to unsuspecting customers like myself who wouldn't have known the difference a year ago. Now I'm at least smart enough to ask and look closely.

Oh man, so did I! I even read it out loud to my wife and said that doesn't sound like Voodoo! I'm cracking up!

I'm in England. If I seen them here I'd run a mile. And I dont want the exercise.

Where would I look for the serial number on this one? Is it under the engine cowl where it hooks on? How about the engine number?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vespa-sprint-1964-display/254772481116?hash=item3b519f8c5c:g:rSkAAOSwDgtfqCiK

Cheers

Not a Sprint and definitely has a lot of bodge work on it. Probably spend some time in SEA...

Hi all, I've finally taken the plunge into the Vespa world and got myself a 1964? Motovespa 150s. Does anyone know where I might find seals and Gaskets for the carb? Had it running but soon conked out so starting with the obvious. Have cleaned the carb out and want to replace all the gaskets while it's off. Is cutting my own gaskets an option?
Also does anyone know if this will fit

www.recambiosmotosclasicas.es/carburador/kit-carburador-vespa-150-y-160

and is it worth doing? Should I be looking to keep it all original?

All advice welcome.
P.S. the colour will change!

Even though it does'nt work , it is still a thing of beauty

Im no expert, but i believe the 150 Motovespa's are piston ported, so you will need some specific parts for your scoot. Cutting your own gaskets is always a good option, go for it.

I also have a '64 150S. I was my first Vespa and I rebuilt the motor and rode it around. It died the first time out which turned out to be the breather hole in the gas cap. At 6.5 hp, according to the original manual ( in Spanish), it is a nice ride but way under-powered for the roads around here so I swapped in an LML/DR177. The original motor is moth-balled. I do not remember any specifics on doing the motor but the only real difference between piston and case ported is the location of the inlet. In fact, the cases are cast for a rotary inlet. And the 5% oil mix !!
That kit you linked is wrong for your motor. That Spanish IRZ carb is an odd rarity for sure and, if I recall... maybe 17mm. Gaskets are no big deal to make. The needle is incorporated into the top of float and the seat is fixed in the bowl cap so you can't just replace the needle and seat. IRZ made a lot of carbs for motorcycles but they were horizontal not vertical. I don't know if any parts are interchangeable.
I did find another junk carb and one point for the bowl cap but I haven't been able to find it.

One option is to put the Motovespa engine on the shelf and put a PX engine in there, with an oldie kickstart quadrant and lever of course. You'll have a more usable, tuneable and easier to maintain motor, but you'll still have the original for the future

Exactly what I did 17 years ago and it's been rock solid ever since. You can get a retro lever that fits the quadrant.
The 150 motor is a fine one but limited by the tiny carb. Mine actually came with a copper plumbing elbow and a side-draft carb but the PO never got it to work and neither did I and the stock IRZ came with the bike. Another carb and exhaust might add enough for your needs.

Thanks for the replies. I can see this is going to be a steep learning curve!
Is it relatively straight forward to swap in a px engine? Exactly what is involved?
I liked the idea of keeping it original but maybe I'm just an old romantic🤣🤣

It should be a straight swap. I don't have a single scooter in my fleet that's running its original engine because they're so plug n' play like that.

And let's not even talk about how non-original all those engines are in their current states...

Any large frame motor will bolt right in. The tricky part is hooking up the electrics but if you keep it AC, it's relatively straight forward and 12 volts is (are) nice.

Thanks chandlerman. Spoiler alert! Potential dumb questions. How much should I be looking to pay for a px motor and what size? I assume second hand so does it matter what year? Be as specific as you want😁

Cost is a question that's much better answered by a local. And while I used to spend a decent amount of time in the UK, that definitely ain't me.

Ideally, find a P200 motor, but that'll almost certainly cost you more.

If you can find a P-series or LML 150 that someone has already put a 177 kit on (other than a DR), but not gone crazy with tuning, that's probably going to be your best bang-for-the-buck. It'll give you improved acceleration and a little bit of top end, but not reduce reliability if done well.

The P-series motors are also a lot easier to work on, especially for a newb since they're much easier to split and close up the cases, and will probably have 12V and maybe even electronic ignition over points.

Some of the LML's will have a reed instead of rotary, which makes them a great base platform for further tuning (but that's going to the Dark Side in a big way), but they sound different from a rotary, so depending on how much of an "authentic" Vespa you want, you may want to stick with rotary.

So lots to learn, but that should be enough to get you started searching. Hopefully someone on your side of the pond can provide suggestions on where to look, too.

👍👍 much appreciated.

Before you go buying a new PX engine, there is one kit option that will enable you to keep the motovespa engine. Whole new PX engine may be a better option but this will give the biggest £ to speed ratio. You'll need a carb and exhaust too but it's basically bolt on 20bhp cylinder

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-quattrini-m1xl-11-172-cc_15046100

Also Jack:



You're absolutely correct, but still...

Thanks for all your input. Not overly concerned about speed, it'll just be used for scooting about town, no big road trips so bhp not a massive concern.

And perceived loudness isn't even a linear function.

This sort of thing??

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/301911311917988/

That's going to be a HOT motor. If it was done right, easily north 20 BHP.

I wouldn't pay that for it, but 1) I'm in a different market; and 2) I do my own tuning work.

That being said, I don't know that it's a bad price, but definitely going to be a lot more maintenance work than a stock PX or swapping the Quattrini onto your existing motor (which will give you plenty of power for your needs for 1/3 the cost).

Where in the UK are you? Maybe someone nearby has a hookup.

that may be a little rickey racer for what your tastes are (and the bike, tbh) but the dough on that is market. I mean that kit and pipe alone are near a smooth G

personally, if I was in your boat or building this for you (as a client) I'd be on the look for a bone stock 200 and be ready to pay for that. maybe throw some tasteful upgrades at it- clutch, short 4th, mid weight flywheel, upgraded crank (just a little more timing) then o-tune the stock barrel or maybe something aftermarket that's mellow. knock on a stock carb and a big box and call it.

the other side of this coin would be a p125/150 or LML motor. depending on how you plan to use the bike this might be more ideal (gearing considerations) but you start with a good building block, less initial investment, and you can snap on a top end, crank, better clutch and dealers choice on the exhaust.

the biggest consideration here is how you plan to use the bike. open road touring or just bopping around town? maybe some big ride outs once a year?

ultimately, that's what you want to base your choice on.

remember, the good money spends once!

oh, and bag up that motor and stash it under the workbench or sell it to somebody doing a full tilt restoration.

+1 CM

it's kinda worth that money (maybe, maybe not…), but it's still no… I wouldn't look for a polini if you had a grand to spend and I'd want the insides to be upgraded some what, clutch, primary/gearbox… at that price, but I don't think it is…

Different for each country… I paid £200 for a stock engine with carb and ignition (granted the stator was shot…)

+1 with greasy, I was looking at a budget engine build with Lml cases, shouldn't be north of £1000 with decent parts, but then I'm saving labour costs

That sounds like a good plan and the most straight forward given my newb status.
Will any Stock p200 motor be a straight swap, I imagine there have been some changes since 1964🤷‍♂️
I assume all the upgrades can be added at a later date? Baby steps and all that 😁

a stocker will bolt right up. you *might* need to dimple the frame a little for the cylinder or carb box. I'm not super familiar with that frame, but somebody else here may have more granular knowledge.

you'll have to suss out the wiring for sure, but not a huge ordeal. and probably some fiddle fuckery withe the cables-- expect a new throttle and choke at least. but I'd say it'd be wise to run fresh clutch and shifters while everything is apart.

the upgrades can be added later, but if you've got it out and all apart it would be smart money to knock it out some of it while you can easily get to everything. namely a clutch and the cables and wiring.

There are definitely some questions we should have asked up front, some of which you've already answered, I think...

1) How do you plan to use it?
Mostly just around town, not going to be getting out and doing a lot of heavy-duty touring

2) What's your mechanical ability?
Fairly minimal. New to vintage vespa's in particular and mechanic work in general.

3) What's your budget?
Somewhere in the 1,500 GBP range, all in (Motor, cables, other upgrades), it sounds like.

4) What are your priorities in the Engineering Triangle (Good, Fast Cheap: Pick two)?
You're primarily Good (reliable), and willing to trade some Cheap for a little bit of Fast.

With all that in mind, I second Greasy that a (nearly) stock P200, properly set up is going to be your ideal option. It'll give you plenty of top end speed (65 MPH, or so, which is more than enough for your needs) and about double the horsepower of your current motor. It'll start damn near first kick every time and potentially last longer than you will before it needs the cases split again.

That's not to say a small block (125/150 cases) won't be close to that, but a stock 150 isn't going to match a stock 200 any day, any way. As the saying goes, "There's no replacement for displacement." (Not entirely true, but that's a rathole we don't want to go down here).

The problem with asking about engine upgrades around here is that our heads all jump to what *we* consider to be engine upgrades, which are very much *not* what you're looking for, I don't think.

At least not yet.

Loud Amps Save Lives?

remember, this is a man that was talking about running motors uncorked on his front lawn.


not that there's anything wrong with that