Modern Vespa

Whodat - so much good stuff here.
So many questions.
Like why are those two trucks mashed together on what appears to be a perfectly good driveway? (And how did Terry see that little man directing traffic?!)

I completely forgot about the temper tantrum I threw after repeated efforts to soldier what ever that metal is on the repro brake switches. Made me laugh.
Think I also tied some wires on and filled the entire switch with epoxy on another. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Your version is executed so much better.

Scoots lookin very nice.

Apparently that little man needs to work on his traffic directing skills. I actually just more or less finished up the project with those two white 1st gen Tundra trucks today. I had a check engine light on the dash before i even did the engine and drivetrain swap, and of course that CEL followed the engine. I ended up fabbing up a 2" long o2 sensor spacer. And that's what finally cured my CEL. It passed the emissions testing this morning at 8:30am.


I think the only reason i was able to keep my cool was because after i read your posting about how much grief the brake light switch metal was giving you, i dove in with absolutely zero expectations of me being able to make it work. Plus you also provided a few solutions to make it work, AND how to make it out of copper. I would not have thought of doing that. Because of all of the problems you had, i was able to go at it with plenty of patience and a clear head. So a big thanks to you for the idea!

I'm going to do the disc brake conversion on my P. Really didn't like the master to brake lever linkage. I'm going your route and mounting a master like you did. Great idea to weld a mount to the headset! I don't know how you find time to get everything done. you seem very busy.

i'm single

That took me a second to figure out!!🤣😅

I realised there was no way I could get a tight bend in there with hose, so I had this made up to go through where it would cause the least get-in-my-way-ness. Quite happy with it.

Obviously not in your league of neatness or even cleanliness, so please excuse that!




.
.
. Rob, easiest way by far is this bracket. It's what I based mine on (but didn't want to wait two weeks for it to arrive).
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/brake-pump-holder-mmw-brake-master-cylinder-grimeca-98-handle-bar_56377500

Right on, thanks!

Ginch, whenever I see your avatar I think off Nikki Sixx!

I think Noel Fielding (The Mighty Boosh) would be flattered!

I'm really liking that SIP caliper in blue and black for you. I don't know who makes it for them but I hate having brand names all over the products, unless of course SIP wants to give sponsorship discounts. Nah, looks better without the name. I'm just big on getting the best for my money. I hustle to make ends meet but don't mind spending more for quality regardless of brand.

I've tried bleeding that shiny black SIP caliper multiple times over,
and i've never had luck on getting all the air bubbles out of it. I know it's designed to be difficult to bleed, but for some reason i just can't get all the air out of it. In fact i tried again the morning for about 30 minutes to no avail. I gave up and swapped back on a bog standard Grimeca 30mm brake caliper. I got it all bleed in about 5 minutes. I was super careful and didn't spill a drop of brake fluid on the paint!

Bummer! I've had similar problems with Harley calipers. Guess it wasn't the master. I've got some tricks for bleeding but looks like your done. If you decide to sell the black sip I'm interested for my P build.

Got a headlight question for you. Definitely doing your led mod for my P but need advice for the GS. It's now 12v and DC for the headlight. Suggestions on bulbs? What type and watts? Thanks

Oops, forgot to say no led for the GS.

For a headlight question like that i'd recommend to start your own thread. I think you'd get quite a few different answers, and all of them would be beneficial.

Left side cowl is reattached. And this how the battery looks inside the cowl. I got a fairly clean install with all the wiring. The Vape regulator is mounted to the far side of the battery tray (where the two brown wires are peaking up). I went above and beyond to put redundant ground material on all the electronics. I also welded a ground stud to the frame under both the horn casting and here under the cowl, just above the battery. I'm hoping to place a SIP order tomorrow for a few more one last things.

I've been doing some thinking about an ideal temp sensor to use with my SIP digital speedo. I've heard a few different reports that that temp sensor that comes with the speedo kit is prone to breaking. I forgot who here recommended the Koso M10x1 temp sensor, but i picked a few of them up. The only problem is that there's no place to install it in the stock cylinder head.

I've been racking my brain for multiple weeks on how to go about how to make this happen. I did get an avant-garde idea yesterday...
I have no idea if this will work or not, but i was thinking that a stock cylinder head could be modified to accept a temp sensor the size of a m10 thread.

So i do have a trashed stock p200 cylinder head that a machine shop totally screwed up big time enough that it isn't really useable anymore. The head has been in my shop for at least 15 years, so if i haven't done anything with it so far, i never will. I won't feel bad about experimenting with it.

I drilled a 3/4" diameter hole DIRECTLY though the combustion chamber. I already had a 3/4" aluminum spacer tube that i tapped to a m10x1. So the thought is once that aluminum spacer tube is sanded down to somewhat the same contour at the combustion bowl, is to seal it up 100000% by welding it in from the inside of the bowl. Then i would have to come back and reshape that portion of the bowl. On paper it sounds totally doable...dunno if in reality it would work. I don't really want to try to use my m10x1 threaded spacer tube as a welding experiment just yet, so this is only how far i've gone so far.

Thoughts? Ideas? Criticisms?

This is how the CHT probes are done on an aircraft engine. Just a tapped hole not drilled through obviously and it's springed to keep the tip on the head so it has room to move without breaking from vibrating and expansion. This probe might even work with the SIP. If you want to try it I'll send you one.

I was leaving work when I sent that. Any probe you use only has to be touching the head. Only said that because of how that probe is mounted in your bushing. I didn't know what your end result is going to be with it. Wouldn't be necessary to drill through the head. Just weld a bung on the head. No charge on my probe if you want it. You can be the guinea pig. It's a fast reading probe too.

Thank you for the offer, but hold off on sending any care packages. My main concern would be if the temp sensors you have would have the same value as Koso's. If i knew that all manufacturers used the same value for their temp sensors, then i have a couple Trailtech sensors in my shop that i could probably make work (without drilling through the head).


The only reason why i'm entertaining the idea of drilling though the head is because it would be fairly difficult to tap a hole coming in from the fin (exterior) side of the head. Plus there would be no flat area to get a good seating for the sensor (i don't know if that parts really matters or not though). Perhaps my idea of drilling and welding though the head would be about the same amount of challenge as partially drilling and tapping in from the fin side?

I messed around a little bit more this evening with the head experiment. I had another 3/4 od aluminum spacer tube. I did a quick amateur drill and m10x1 tap job to it. I then took a flapper wheel and shaped it to the combustion chamber. I wasn't after anything spot on, but something kinda close to get an idea if i should proceed any further with this. I'm not saying it's the best idea, but so far i don't dislike the idea.

Catching up.
Rob - are you familiar with Aliexpress? if not - check it out.
Calipers are $15-$20 all in.
Most of what SIP sells are made by Adeline.
Others shown on that site are same -but with different branding.

Ginch - had no idea who the Mighty Boosh was before your avatar. Now see him on British baking show with the wife. Suspect you do too.
🙂 Joys of domestic life (also - pretty good TV)

Whodat - totally forgot the whole can't solder these damn things experience.
Think I might still have that same one on my scoot since the posting.
Glad you were able to harvest and refine.
Constantly blown away by all the creative ideas I see on here.

As for head temp - here is my $.02.
No reason to expose the working side of the head (inner dome) to the sensor.
1. You don't want any threads or right angles exposed - will be hot spots and cause detonation. Think edge of welded material.
2. Why not just carve back the air cooling fins on the outside - and weld your aluminum threaded bung in place. It doesn't even need to be 100% airtight. Just well connected so it transfers temp from head to bung. I wouldn't drill into the head at all. I would also probably torque the head down to a big ass cast iron cylinder when I welded the bung on - to keep it from warping.

I found that the Koso ones didn't break nearly as often as the TTO's, were WAY cheaper and easier. I'd live with the possibility of breaking a ring every so often, they sell them in packs of 5 I think.

The other thing you might do is cut the ring off an under-plug sensor and lay it in between two fins. You may need to grind a little to make it fit. Then you can epoxy it into place, making sure it has good contact with the head. Pick the right spot and it won't be too hard to screw the wire part into. Used to do this rather than buy a new TTO wire (for 75% of the price of a complete gauge!).

Charlieman - https://youtu.be/UgiduFQgSEA?si=1JpriRiZkKKVF1j0

Just as an update i continued experimenting with welding on this damaged spare cylinder head.

I preheated the head with a propane torch hot enough to make my spit sizzle. I went remedial with a spool gun to weld it up. Considering that the cylinder head it really old and has been contaminated with oil for years and years, there wasn't too much porosity in the weld. I could have gone back and removed all the porosity, but that wasn't my goal for this experiment. I'm think if i used a brand new head that there would be less contamination. I can only assume that the head is warped after welding on it. I have no idea how much, but i'd like to lap it on a sheet of glass with some 500 grit sandpaper just to see what i have for high and low spots.

When it came time to grind and smooth out the weld, i didn't try to make it even close to perfect. I was just trying to get a gauge of what it would take labor and material wise to get the contour more or less perfect.

I'm still trying to decide if something like this is even worth doing, or if it's just going to screw things up. I'm not opposed to welding a bung elsewhere on the head, but space is a real commodity. I can't seem to find any room whatsoever to gain access to weld a bung on the exterior of the head.

I'm still open for discussion and debate on this.

That's nice work. I still wouldn't want to drill through the head. I would get a Koso spark plug sender, clip off most of the ring and drill a shallow hole in the head. Just enough to snug the end of the sensor in and JB weld it. I found comparing a screw in vs plug sensor that the values were pretty close. They just got there at different rates, eventually ending up pretty close.

I drilled and put mine in the head. Pitch for the small sensor is M4.5x0.75mm…

Any problems with breaking the sensor?

Are you also using an extra m4.5 nut on the sensor to be used to lock the sensor in place?

Looks to be a much better idea than mine as long as it's reliable!

Well, before I paint my GS frame I need to figure out what battery is going in and make the box. I have an earthX in my plane and like it but I see you have the anti gravity. How do you like it so far? I think your 801 has maybe 1 more amp hour than the one I was looking at. You've definitely stirred up some brain cell activity in my head with your build. You've pretty much proved that anything can be done to a scoot and fantastic paint work is totally possible without a booth! I'm almost ready to start my GS thread.

Whodat - what I don't get is: why drill clear through?

Why not just weld a threaded bung to top side of head - or partially drill if the meat is there to thread.
?

There's no space to reach the tip of the welding gun (or torch) to the top side of the head. The only way i see that happening is by cutting off 3 or 4 cooling fins, weld a m10 bung to the top of the head, then weld the cooling fins back into place.

From a rough guesstimate, the head doesn't appear to be quite thick enough to screw that m10 koso sensor all the way down to its base.

I've used all of the big 3 Li battery brands...earthX, Antigravity, and Shorai in my KTM dirtbikes. I started out using Shorai, but i had a lot of problems with their batteries. They had a good warranty, but it's still a hassle when a Li battery starts melting down on you. I still happen to have an old shorai lfx14l2-bs12 tucked in underneath my Pk200's fuel tank. Somehow it still is surviving.

My favorite battery so far has been the Earthx. I have one in both my KTM 525 and 990R. Previous owner installed an earthx in my 950A, but that finally gave up the ghost after the 6 years that i owned the bike.

I'm new to the antigravity battery. I purposely bought the 801 battery to install in my ktm 640A. On paper it's a bit undersized amp wise, but since i'm modifying my stock airbox to be twice the size, i have VERY little left over space to work with, and my battery will reside inside my airbox. So in the meantime while the 640 isn't running, the battery will live in a scooter. I can ride only so many bikes/scooters at once, so i figured i'd just buy one antigravity battery and rotate them between the motos.

Have you also thought about installing a capacitor instead of a battery? If you don't plan on riding the GS that often, it would sure cut down on the battery maintenance. The only problem would be is there's less watts available at lower RPM. Take a look see towards the bottom of this page where i used a capacitor instead of a battery...
1958 VB1 200 Wideframe scuttle bucket (Page 10)

Thanks for the response. I'm going earthX for sure then. No prob on battery maintenance for me. I have the vape and sip speedo for the GS.

Got it.
Have another angle.
Think u might pull off:
Bolt head to something to minimize warp.
Preheat with torch.
Cut fins just enough to put gun tip in.
Build up spot welds or the like on top of head.
Drill and tap that little close encounter of the third kind build up.
Insert sender.
Voila!

That's a great idea. Something like that might just work. I'll take a closer look to see how much room i have to work with to insert just the tip

I switched gears and i worked on figuring out how to install a really bright LED into my Lucas light housing...without it looking like total pop. I'm pretty much copying what i did with my PX's Lucas light housing many years ago, except i made this bezel out of aluminum instead of a black plastic.

First off i had a friend 3D print some bezels so that i could use them as a mock up. The orange bezels are 1/4" thick, so when i stack two together, i will have a full 1/2" thick piece.

Once i figured out if the orange pieces would work, i then had my friend create a CAD file of the shapes. Then sent that CAD file to Send Cut Send. It was a little over a week to receive back my aluminum pieces from SCS. And FYI, 1/2" aluminum costs WAY more than 1/8" or 1/4"!

I planned to use a standard wood carbide bit in my router to shape the aluminum, so i needed a way to very securely mount the aluminum bezel to my workbench. I ended up having SCS cut 4 round holes the exact size for a M5 tap to be run through. I could then drill 4 corresponding holes through my workbench (which was a piece of plywood). I then threaded in M5 screws through the backside of the 1/2" aluminum bezel.

I then switched to routering a 1/2" round over bit for the perimeter of the bezel. I quickly realized that i needed to create a deeper channel in the plywood so the bearing at the end of the router bit could ride low enough on the aluminum. That was easy enough to freehand.

Once the round out was completed, i flipped the bezel upside down and remounted it to the plywood. I then used a different router bit to countersink the whole LED housing about 3/8" into the bezel. I was shooting to have about a 3/16" thick area portion of the bezel that gets mounted to the LED housing, but accidentally went to deep. So now it's like an 1/8" thick bezel in that area.

Here are more pics.

and some more pics

No doubt the original glass lens that comes in a Lucas light looks exponentially better than what i fabbed up. But since having a VERY bright light is paramount for me, i'm totally fine with the aesthetics of my bezel.

I would have liked to have the light mounted about 2" further towards the edge of the legshield, but the whole reason for me to mount the Lucas light was to cover up a pre existing hole in the legshield.

The Lucas light is currently just mocked up, but i'm hoping to get it securely mounted and wired up tomorrow or the next day.

Here are links to the lights i used.
A Baja Designs Squadron Sport (with a wide cornering lens) for the main headlight. https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/squadron-sport-black-led-auxiliary-light-pod-universal/

A Baja Designs Squadron Pro (same lens) for the Lucas light.
https://www.bajadesigns.com/products/squadron-pro-black-led-auxiliary-light-pod-universal/