@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4187
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4187
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
That is badass! So fun following along. Very nice work! It's gonna be so bright
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
That is badass! So fun following along. Very nice work! It's gonna be so bright
It took just enough head scratching to make the custom bezel a pretty fun project. The lights are bright enough that i should be able to see any deer from a distance, and the hydro disc brake should slow me down quick enough for when they decide to sprint out in the road.
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
Looks like you've been busier than a two peckered goat. I tend to work my way backwards on threads so when I saw your bezel it looked like it was machined! Outstanding job! Scoot looks great. My guess would be the deer and elk will turn into statues when lit up and you'll just have to maneuver around them.
Is your legshield trim stainless or chrome? Are those screw on types easy to put on? My scoot never had trim on it and I haven't decided yet if I want some.
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
Amazing work you do.

I still don't like the look that much but appreciate why you are doing it. I wonder if you've considered some way of adding the stock/stockish glass or plastic lens over the assembly? For me (not that it's worth anything), it would take the edge off the oddness of the shape.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4155
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4155
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Whodat is a human CNC Router…
@birdsnest avatar
UTC

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC 09C VMA VSX - vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8009
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
@birdsnest avatar
VNB VSC 09C VMA VSX - vbc vmb
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8009
Location: Hustletown, TX
UTC quote
Crazy cool work.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
BajaRob wrote:
Looks like you've been busier than a two peckered goat. I tend to work my way backwards on threads so when I saw your bezel it looked like it was machined! Outstanding job! Scoot looks great. My guess would be the deer and elk will turn into statues when lit up and you'll just have to maneuver around them.
Is your legshield trim stainless or chrome? Are those screw on types easy to put on? My scoot never had trim on it and I haven't decided yet if I want some.
The tick taxies around here in the PacNW are highly indecisive. Sometimes they'll just freeze when they see bright lights, other times they run right for it. During the spring time through fall, i will see on average a deer every other ride (when after dark). I've got pretty lucky and have only hit one deer so far when out riding. My friend and his wife recently hit a deer on their motorcycle a few months ago. Bike was totaled, but they both got lucky and limped away from the crash.

The legshield trim that i used is stainless that i bought from SIP. It wasn't too difficult to install. I did have to manipulate a bit so that it would fit. The absolutely only reason i installed the trim was because this Allstate has been laid down in the past (before i bought it), and the aluminum trim that was in there was damaged. My legshield was also bent a bit and ground down a bit too. I used the stainless trim to hide 90% of the damage and to help straighten and reinforce the legshield itself. I didn't want to spend my time, money, or resources to completely strip down and respray this scooter, so i did a full budget fix...just enough to make the scooter look presentable from 10' away. If i had done a complete respray, i would just use the normal aluminum trim. The bad part about the stainless trim is that it has sharp edges and can cut/dig into the paint. Plus the grub screws that are used to install the SS trim will also dig into the paint. In order to combat this, i did sand and file all the sharp edges on the SS trim. I also bought some expensive nylon tipped grub screws from Mcmaster.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Amazing work you do.

I still don't like the look that much but appreciate why you are doing it. I wonder if you've considered some way of adding the stock/stockish glass or plastic lens over the assembly? For me (not that it's worth anything), it would take the edge off the oddness of the shape.
Ugh!...for the past 10 years i've been pondering how to how to use a vintage stock glass lens over the top of my LEDs! I still haven't been able to figure out how to make that happen with the LEDs that i use. The Lucas housing is just too shallow to do something like that. No doubt the glass flutes that are in a vintage lens would play havoc with the beam pattern (and brightness) of a modern LED lens. I pretty much gave up years ago trying to make a modern LED look vintage.

This isn't the first time i've attempted to fit a LED into a Lucas light shell. I made a black plastic bezel ring about 10 years ago (it's mounted on my PX200). It didn't look that great back then, but this aluminum bezel does look much better.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
I wired in the legshield spotlight this evening. The switch for it is the far left toggle on the headlight switch. It's pretty darn intuitive location to turn on and off. It's much too bright to use when other cars are around, but for riding back country roads after dark it will be awesome.
The far left toggle switch turns the spotlight on and off, while the right side rocker switch turns the main headlight/taillight on and off.
The far left toggle switch turns the spotlight on and off, while the right side rocker switch turns the main headlight/taillight on and off.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Ugh!...for the past 10 years i've been pondering how to how to use a vintage stock glass lens over the top of my LEDs! I still haven't been able to figure out how to make that happen with the LEDs that i use. The Lucas housing is just too shallow to do something like that. No doubt the glass flutes that are in a vintage lens would play havoc with the beam pattern (and brightness) of a modern LED lens. I pretty much gave up years ago trying to make a modern LED look vintage.
I get what you're saying. SIP used to sell a "lens" for a P that was plain (had no flutes at all). I'm not seeing it now on the site but that's what I had in mind.
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
Sounds like you have a big problem with deer traffic up there.
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
You know you're not doing me any favors by not posting something new!😆 It's been too long since the last innovative mod. Your build has been stirring up ideas to improve things on my own projects. Keep um coming!
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
BajaRob wrote:
You know you're not doing me any favors by not posting something new!😆 It's been too long since the last innovative mod. Your build has been stirring up ideas to improve things on my own projects. Keep um coming!
I have been waiting for my SIP order to arrive and that's the sole reason this thread has been quiet. I have always placed my SIP orders through one of my friends. He did text me friday afternoon that my parts just arrived (at his shop). I was out cutting firewood, and that would have meant that i would have had to drive both my truck and trailer (full of wood) for 25 miles (one way) of friday afternoon traffic...no thanks. The other motivation to not pick up the scooter parts on friday was because i wanted to focus 100% on wrenching on my Ford Highboy 12 valve cummins swap this weekend. If i had those scooter parts...well let's just say i wouldn't have been nearly productive on my pick'em up truck!

So i did do one more thing on the Allstate. I mounted a legshield rondel badge (i used 3m double sided tape). I needed something to cover up a torn out hole in the legshield, so a Vespa Club USA badge seems to match the theme with a Sears Allstate. The other bonus is that the blue on the badge is REAL close to the same shade of blue as the scooter.
I'd prefer to locate the badge up higher and a bit further to the left side of the legshield, but this is where the exiting hole is that i wanted to cover up.
I'd prefer to locate the badge up higher and a bit further to the left side of the legshield, but this is where the exiting hole is that i wanted to cover up.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
Brilliant! It was made to cover that hole.
I forget we have to work sometimes.😆 Last weekend I worked on a buddy's plane and this morning had to patch my patio before the rain. Split some wood for the misses too.
Your scoot looks great and I'm loving the legshield light!
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
UTC quote
Whodat,
First off - scoot is really looking great.

Even when BMW was still selling the 2002, owners would but BBS wheels on them…

Your details are superb.
This is a resto mod - done really nicely.

I love the badge.
I love the function of the lights - and will think about how to steel the idea of an auxiliary light that puts out my main source.

I searched the entire internet - until I had banged my head in all the corners - looking for a damn headlight to fit the very small headset of my VBB - that didn't cost as much as my exhaust - and looked nice.

I found a single option - that was the right size - and didn't constitute a fog light.
They called it a driving light.
IDK.

It's still a compromise: I like the way it looks, but it's really not got the throw I would like.
The halo running light kinda sold me.
It's got a cool feel to it.

Seeing the convo between u and Ginch, and with some inspiration from what u did here: how about a 3d print (or even a routed) cover in 1/4" clear plexi that has the ribs of a traditional light, but the cut out for your projection light?
Basically - your aluminum part made of clear plastic with ribs in it.
I kinda like the way this looks. It's kinda got a steam punk vibe to it in person. 
(Note leg shield trim…)
I kinda like the way this looks. It's kinda got a steam punk vibe to it in person. (Note leg shield trim…)
@ginch avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8610
Location: Victoria, Australia
UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
how about a 3d print (or even a routed) cover in 1/4" clear plexi that has the ribs of a traditional light, but the cut out for your projection light?
Basically - your aluminum part made of clear plastic with ribs in it.
I feel like you don't need the ribs (that might interfere with the beam as mentioned), some of the later PX headlights have a completely clear lens with no ribs at all. With a clear cover/lens, I think it would make the whole thing look more 'normal' and not lose functionality.

Here's the PX unit - https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/headlight-unit-piaggio-round_58294600?cr=7e3fb874-954b-4f28-924b-72d215e4c463&gad_source=1

OR go the whole hog and get super tricky...

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=Replicating+headlight+lens+with+a+clear+plastic+resin
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
UTC quote
Quote:
I feel like you don't need the ribs (that might interfere with the beam as mentioned)
Crappy explanation by me perhaps.
The ribs would not cover who dat's lights - they would surround it.
Just like the aluminum plate does now - with the same cut out.
Ribs would help obscure the area where the reflector used to be.
But this is all bench racing.
Meanwhile Whodat has crafted some beautiful parts here.
So I'm gonna let him keep crafting.
The headlight is weirdly growing on me.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Whodat,
First off - scoot is really looking great.

Even when BMW was still selling the 2002, owners would but BBS wheels on them…

Your details are superb.
This is a resto mod - done really nicely.

I love the badge.
I love the function of the lights - and will think about how to steel the idea of an auxiliary light that puts out my main source.

I searched the entire internet - until I had banged my head in all the corners - looking for a damn headlight to fit the very small headset of my VBB - that didn't cost as much as my exhaust - and looked nice.

I found a single option - that was the right size - and didn't constitute a fog light.
They called it a driving light.
IDK.

It's still a compromise: I like the way it looks, but it's really not got the throw I would like.
The halo running light kinda sold me.
It's got a cool feel to it.

Seeing the convo between u and Ginch, and with some inspiration from what u did here: how about a 3d print (or even a routed) cover in 1/4" clear plexi that has the ribs of a traditional light, but the cut out for your projection light?
Basically - your aluminum part made of clear plastic with ribs in it.
...and resto mod was exactly what i'm after with this build. I know that term gets used very loosely nowadays, but i tried to stay true to the definition.

I'm just going to choose function over form this time for the headlights. There's only so much that can be done to make a modern LED look vintage. We'll just have to see how the lights look after the whole scooter is assembled. Fingers crossed that they look acceptable.

I do like the halo look on yours. It's modern enough looking that it makes you look twice...then 3 or 4 more times just to make sure you're seeing what you're seeing, but then the style flows well enough that it doesn't look out of place whatsoever.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
I got my SIP order! I spent some time today installing more of my sip digital speedo bits and pieces. I ended up going with the Koso magnetic speedo sensor. The Koso sensor mounting bracket always looked like an afterthought design, and i don't really like the way it looked when i mocked it up. So after staring at the brake caliper carrier for a while i decided to go a different route. In the dirtbike world we just drill and tap a hole to mount a speedo sensor, so i went that route instead.
Eyeballing about where to drill the hole for the sensor.
Eyeballing about where to drill the hole for the sensor.
no going back now
no going back now
8mm hole was drilled for the sensor. A second hole was drilled (perpendicular) and tapped so a M4 set screw could be threaded in.
8mm hole was drilled for the sensor. A second hole was drilled (perpendicular) and tapped so a M4 set screw could be threaded in.
I found a spare M6 neo magnet brake rotor screw in my shop. I'm pretty sure it's from Trailtech.
I found a spare M6 neo magnet brake rotor screw in my shop. I'm pretty sure it's from Trailtech.
another angle
another angle
The magnet is low enough profile that it doesn't rub against the caliper carrier while the rotor spins.
The magnet is low enough profile that it doesn't rub against the caliper carrier while the rotor spins.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
I also had to plug the original speedo gear hole. I found a random silicon tapered plug in my shop. It's the perfect length and diameter to fit inside the hole to create a waterproof seal.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
And a few more pics. I ended up slipping some adhesive lined blue colored heatshrink over the top of the speedo wire. My goals were to have that speedo wire blend in a little bit better with the blue brake hose AND by adding that thick heatshrink it stiffens up the speedo wire enough that it gives it more support so that it isn't as soggy. No, the blue heatshrink doesn't match the blue brake hose...or the blue body paint...or the blue zip ties, BUT if you stand back 10', then it looks acceptable. Remember, you're seeing a close up view of all the blues in perfect lighting, not a view from afar.
pic of the Koso sensor mounting bracket mocked up
pic of the Koso sensor mounting bracket mocked up
pic of the Koso sensor mounted through the caliper carrier
pic of the Koso sensor mounted through the caliper carrier
i weighted the end up the speedo wire when i installed the blue heatshrink. The reason being is that it removed all the kinks from the wire.
i weighted the end up the speedo wire when i installed the blue heatshrink. The reason being is that it removed all the kinks from the wire.
Pic of the final product.
Pic of the final product.
⚠️ Last edited by whodatschrome on UTC; edited 2 times
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
UTC quote
Whodat!
Wow.

You will not be sorry for using the magnet.
Makes the SIP speedo wickedly consistent.
I say consistent - not accurate - cause u gotta use GPS and some alchemy of button pushes to get the circumference of the wheel to match speed.

Just make sure u opt for the "1p" - and then a little fiddling with wheel circumference should tune you in.

Love the blue shrink wrap - and this build in its entirety.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4187
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4187
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Love the blue shrink wrap - and this build in its entirety.
Me too! Clap emoticon Clap emoticon Clap emoticon
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
I really like all the details of this build including the fabricated stuff.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
I really like all the details of this build including the fabricated stuff.
I think i have a problem with just leaving well enough alone
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
I decided to go for broke on fitting a temp sensor plug into my SIP zero squish head. I dunno if i would do it again or not. We'll just have to wait and see how well the head performs.

Side note, the SIP head had porosity in it right out of the box. My welds also left some more porosity in it. It might creat some hot spots?...I dunno. I don't think i'm going to worry about it at all. They look much larger in the pics than real life.

I did lap the head on some wet/dry sandpaper (after welding on it), but i didn't notice any sort of heat distortion that the welding caused.

Ideally the welding would be done before the head was machined down. By doing that you could all but guarantee a perfect job.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
more pics for full disclosure. You can see some porosity in the weld. If it turns out that it somehow ruins this head, then i'll be out $100-ish in the name of experimental tuning. I did talk to one of my friends beforehand about the tiny temp sensors that SIP includes in their digital speedo kits. He's installed MANY of the digital speedos and he thinks those lil' sensors are rubbish as well.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
i used the practice head as a drill guide to drill a hole through the shroud
i used the practice head as a drill guide to drill a hole through the shroud
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Nice work on that. You don't do anything half way.

I've been rereading your thread as I had forgotten many of the details. I like the idea of a hand built vintage bike that has useful improvements like a front disc brake and improved suspension. I've seen a lot of photos of 8-10" conversions and they often look wrong. 10" wheels look great on your bike. I think the custom touches you have done work well in keeping with a vintage look. The more modern touches like the lights add elements of surprise that add to the overall look.

I hate to call it steampunk because it's so much better than what I've seen that is labeled as such. More like what I think steampunk should be. A lot of steampunk stuff adds a lot of pointless, non-functional complexity. A lot of repurposed objects are not disguised in a way that is convincing or original. It only makes it obvious that the artist doesn't understand the function of the repurposed object. Sorry to write an essay.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Nice work on that. You don't do anything half way.

I've been rereading your thread as I had forgotten many of the details. I like the idea of a hand built vintage bike that has useful improvements like a front disc brake and improved suspension. I've seen a lot of photos of 8-10" conversions and they often look wrong. 10" wheels look great on your bike. I think the custom touches you have done work well in keeping with a vintage look. The more modern touches like the lights add elements of surprise that add to the overall look.

I hate to call it steampunk because it's so much better than what I've seen that is labeled as such. More like what I think steampunk should be. A lot of steampunk stuff adds a lot of pointless, non-functional complexity. A lot of repurposed objects are not disguised in a way that is convincing or original. It only makes it obvious that the artist doesn't understand the function of the repurposed object. Sorry to write an essay.
Thank you for the compliment Orwell! The 8" to 10" conversion with a fully hydraulic disc brake has been the most challenging part of the whole built. That was the main reason this project had been sidelined for close to 10 years. I've been having lots of fun getting creative with many different portions of this build.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Well it's now about time for me to finally start the engine up and give it a test ride. But before i do, i'm looking for some advice to set the initial timing and a baseline for jetting.

I'll be installing a VAPE static CDI. Normally i set timing on all my stock-ish P200s to 22 degrees. The timing curve on the VAPE static looks a bit different than with a Ducati CDI?

Carb is an oil injection 24/24G (T5) along with a T5 air filter. The fuel passage was drilled to a larger 2mm. I tossed some jets in it...
185/BE3/135 main
50/100 idle
60 choke
Or should i swap on a 24/24E carb and filter instead?

The currently installed JL right pipe is going to make the engine run hotter than what a standard box exhaust would.

There's also a 1.5mm packer at the bottom of the cylinder since i installed a 60mm crankshaft.

The weather is supposed to be nicer tomorrow, and i'd like to see if i can go for a fairly short test ride.
So do these lines actually mean anything, or are they just arbitrarily marks that Vape uses? No numbers, so i have no idea what lines are what, or where to start at.
So do these lines actually mean anything, or are they just arbitrarily marks that Vape uses? No numbers, so i have no idea what lines are what, or where to start at.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
UTC quote
With the 60mm crank it's not stock anymore. The crank and packer raises the transfers but proportionatly lowers the blowdown. Next time you're in there, the exhaust port should come up a little.
Stick with the G. Jetting AC120/BE4/135 and 55/100 reduce the main jet to suit.
I would start with the timing set 24 degrees @2000rpm and see how it feels.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
With the 60mm crank it's not stock anymore. The crank and packer raises the transfers but proportionatly lowers the blowdown. Next time you're in there, the exhaust port should come up a little.
Stick with the G. Jetting AC120/BE4/135 and 55/100 reduce the main jet to suit.
I would start with the timing set 24 degrees @2000rpm and see how it feels.
Is that 24 degrees for a static or a variable CDI? Because i'm swapping over to a static ignition for this build.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Is that 24 degrees for a static or a variable CDI? Because i'm swapping over to a static ignition for this build.
Why change to static when the money is already spent? Variable timing is just free power (when setup correctly).
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Why change to static when the money is already spent? Variable timing is just free power (when setup correctly).
I already had a static CDI kicking around my shop for a few years, so from aspect money is a wash. There's enough back and forth about the pros and cons with static vs variable that i'm uncomfortable enough to think that variable isn't for me. Plus i've holed a piston in the past with a VAPE variable. Who's fault was that? Mine of course. I have no problems doing the math to set a variable, but i think there's just too many variables for me to set another one up. I never had the same difficulties setting up my Vespatronic or my Varitronic ignitions. Hindsight i would have just installed a Piaggio stator plate, floated the ground to get DC power, plugged in a Ducatic CDI, set the timing to 22 degrees, plopped on a 24/24E carb (160/BE3/128, 55/160), kept a 57mm crank, and be out banging miles on the highway.

At the beginning AND end of the day, i'll be the first to admit that i can't dial in timing and jetting on a tuned engine. I can build a scooter, but i just can't tune them.

And i just looked over at SIP, and i don't see that 55/100 jet exists for the 24/24 G. I do have the rest of the jets on my shelf.
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1812
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1812
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
Those are reference lines for later adjustment. Each line is a degree.

The setup lines aren't those. The T marks on the base plate and flywheel are the setup lines.
That's the firing point. "Timing" on the graph.

The instructions on page 6 section 10 are super confusing.
Leave the base plate bolts loose enough to rotate it.
Rotate the flywheel (leave the fan off) from TDC to the advance you want, then rotate the base plate with a screwdriver to line up the two marks.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Ray8 wrote:
Those are reference lines for later adjustment. Each line is a degree.

The setup lines aren't those. The T marks on the base plate and flywheel are the setup lines.
That's the firing point. "Timing" on the graph.

The instructions on page 6 section 10 are super confusing.
Leave the base plate bolts loose enough to rotate it.
Rotate the flywheel (leave the fan off) from TDC to the advance you want, then rotate the base plate with a screwdriver to line up the two marks.
I wouldn't say super confusing...more like just german. I ended up disregarding all the markings on the base plate and flywheel center. Instead i'll just go old fashioned and work my way backwards with my own TDC mark and a strobe light. No doubt it will take a lot longer (than if i do it the SIP way), but at least i'll can understand my way of doing it. It will just take more trial and error until i can figure out where 22 degrees is at.
OP
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Here's something peculiar and totally unexpected...i just went for a short test ride after dark (in order to aim the headlight) and noticed that there was a blue glow emanating from the speedo sensor. At first i thought it was a blue reflection off my blue paint, but it turns out there's a light (i assume LED?) that's built inside the sensor housing. It's not really noticeable, but it is kinda cool.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
 
Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4059
Location: california
UTC quote
Yup.
Comes on under power.
I'm super pleased with mine - same as urs.

How's the lighting?!
How's the scoot feel?

This one has the makings of a favorite tourer.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
I already had a static CDI kicking around my shop for a few years, so from aspect money is a wash. There's enough back and forth about the pros and cons with static vs variable that i'm uncomfortable enough to think that variable isn't for me. Plus i've holed a piston in the past with a VAPE variable. Who's fault was that? Mine of course. I have no problems doing the math to set a variable, but i think there's just too many variables for me to set another one up. I never had the same difficulties setting up my Vespatronic or my Varitronic ignitions. Hindsight i would have just installed a Piaggio stator plate, floated the ground to get DC power, plugged in a Ducatic CDI, set the timing to 22 degrees, plopped on a 24/24E carb (160/BE3/128, 55/160), kept a 57mm crank, and be out banging miles on the highway.

At the beginning AND end of the day, i'll be the first to admit that i can't dial in timing and jetting on a tuned engine. I can build a scooter, but i just can't tune them.

And i just looked over at SIP, and i don't see that 55/100 jet exists for the 24/24 G. I do have the rest of the jets on my shelf.
With the sip sport CDI 24@2000 is not too high. 26@2000 is getting up there. By 30@2000 bad things are going to happen.

Get the long 55/100 and cut it down. The 100 part is nearer the thread. It might not be the correct jet but closer to correct than the 50/100.
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 560
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
I just took a look at my instructions for timing the vape. At work some engines have no reference to time the mags so we mount a degree wheel on the spinner. Same as the vape with the wheel on the crank. Instead of subtracting numbers we just rotate our disc to the divided in half number before removing the plug. Now the degree marks are true on the disc and no extra thinking or writing involved. Just set your fav degree mark up on the pointer by turning the rotor and spin the stator to line up its mark and you're done. I will also be marking TDC on the case for reference.
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0490s ][ Queries: 6 (0.0062s) ][ Debug on ][ 313 ][ Thing One ]