Bad engine oil. Fixed!
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 11:57 am quote
NightWing wrote:
Running the water pump dry for even a short time can damage it. The coolant is also a lubricant.
10 seconds?
MV Santa
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:23 pm quote
Maybe this will inspire you.



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Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:39 pm quote
NightWing wrote:
Running the water pump dry for even a short time can damage it. The coolant is also a lubricant.
BUT he's replacing the water pump. Apart from possible damage to the water pump (which is negligible for 10 secs), the engine needs more than 10 secs to even get slightly warm. I'd happily run from cold with no coolant for 10 secs.


Replacing the whole water pump is absolutely the preferred method, you get all new parts and zero hassle and battle with pressing ceramic seals etc etc. It's what I do on my own bikes - but I've only ever have two fail in over nine scooters and thirty-five years.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:46 pm quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
Maybe this will inspire you.
Thatís a good picture for Mrs Bat, the task will be much easier if she leaves the house before you start.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 3:56 pm quote
share the sentiment with jim on this one. buy the whole shebang and then it's just an R&R job with some fluids.

make sure to get a new gasket for the housing and the formed o-ring for the impeller cover.

you'll also want some goopy stuff: a little sticky grease to hold that o-ring in place, and some ultra black silicone or motoseal or some such sealing compound to ensure you don't have any leaks where the stator wires pass thru the pump housing. every thing else is straight forward: oil, filter, coolant, some clamps, a can of brakeclean and some rags to get everything sparkling clean before reassembly.

if you can do a tire or brakes, then you can definitely tackle this.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:41 pm quote
Okay, I think we're on the move here.

Coupla hundred bucks and a face mask to get the missus out of the house for an afternoon of shopping.....

Quick question on th o-ring. I had just pulled the cover to drain the coolant a couple of weeks back, so is it reusable, or once compressed needs to be replaced? I know it's relatively cheap, but then I guess so am I. But if new is the way to go, no biggy.

Other Q...if I'm at this ASAP, (before it gets frigid out and heating the garage gets challenging) should I worry about changing the oil?
Molto Verboso
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:54 pm quote
aren't any entrance doors into your house wide enough to get the patient (scooter) in? Surely there is heat and room in your living room for this transplant?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:13 pm quote
wbdvt wrote:
aren't any entrance doors into your house wide enough to get the patient (scooter) in? Surely there is heat and room in your living room for this transplant?
If you give me your number, I'll put you on the phone with my wife to work out the details.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 6:34 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
wbdvt wrote:
aren't any entrance doors into your house wide enough to get the patient (scooter) in? Surely there is heat and room in your living room for this transplant?
If you give me your number, I'll put you on the phone with my wife to work out the details.
Tempting....
Sergeant at Arms
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:20 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
Okay, I think we're on the move here.

Coupla hundred bucks and a face mask to get the missus out of the house for an afternoon of shopping.....

Quick question on th o-ring. I had just pulled the cover to drain the coolant a couple of weeks back, so is it reusable, or once compressed needs to be replaced? I know it's relatively cheap, but then I guess so am I. But if new is the way to go, no biggy.

Other Q...if I'm at this ASAP, (before it gets frigid out and heating the garage gets challenging) should I worry about changing the oil?
i mention the o-ring because it's crushing to have a job held up by a $5 part is all. but if yours is in good nick, then carry on my wayward son.

if you're getting after the job in the next, say week? i'd not worry about it much but i'd go ahead and drain the oil out as preemptive work and just let it ease on out for the time being. but any longer than i would 100% drain lest you have a corrosion issue with the aguas that be in up in there.

remember you just want to drain, because when you do the housing you're going to lose all the oil anyway. but, you can hose out the case when everything is apart. so just drain and leave the residual and then run two cycles when everything is back together.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:52 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
fledermaus wrote:
wbdvt wrote:
aren't any entrance doors into your house wide enough to get the patient (scooter) in? Surely there is heat and room in your living room for this transplant?
If you give me your number, I'll put you on the phone with my wife to work out the details.
Tempting....
Group zoom please.
Sergeant at Arms
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Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:03 pm quote
znomit wrote:
Madison Sully wrote:
fledermaus wrote:
wbdvt wrote:
aren't any entrance doors into your house wide enough to get the patient (scooter) in? Surely there is heat and room in your living room for this transplant?
If you give me your number, I'll put you on the phone with my wife to work out the details.
Tempting....
Group zoom please.
Sorry what was that? I was on mute.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:51 am quote
Okay, guys, this is getting complicated. My wife is already giving me the side eye... She may want to monitor the Zoom meeting.

Through some of the banter here, I realized that I have basement access from outside (ground level), and better yet, have a small wood shop that I just might be able to jockey the scooter (and lift?) into, that's much warmer and better lit, and if it snows/frosts I'll have my cage inside too... and it's almost the weekend!
greasy125 wrote:
just drain and leave the residual and then run two cycles when everything is back together.
-g
Thanks again, greasy. Just to clarify that last line...running two cycles? Meaning fill with fresh oil, run a bit, drain, wash, rinse repeat and the third oil fill is final?
Obvs not changing filters each time or?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:53 am quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
Maybe this will inspire you.
Indeed!

Funny, first glance at those stacked tires, and I thought they were one...."what the heck is he doing there?"
Sergeant at Arms
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Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:29 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
Okay, guys, this is getting complicated. My wife is already giving me the side eye... She may want to monitor the Zoom meeting.

Through some of the banter here, I realized that I have basement access from outside (ground level), and better yet, have a small wood shop that I just might be able to jockey the scooter (and lift?) into, that's much warmer and better lit, and if it snows/frosts I'll have my cage inside too... and it's almost the weekend!
greasy125 wrote:
just drain and leave the residual and then run two cycles when everything is back together.
-g
Thanks again, greasy. Just to clarify that last line...running two cycles? Meaning fill with fresh oil, run a bit, drain, wash, rinse repeat and the third oil fill is final?
Obvs not changing filters each time or?
so what i would do is drain and flush as best you can everything in the crankcase, and replace the filter. then knock everything back together and run it all up to temp and check for leaks, bleed the cooling system and do all your checks. then have a quick look at the oil. looks good? give it a short test ride and check it again. if there's any remaining evidence of water infiltration, then drain a fill but leave the filter. then run it all back again.

so, in your order add two oil filters and grab a gallon of T6 and you should be solid.

hopefully that makes sense?

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:03 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
so what i would do is drain and flush as best you can everything in the crankcase, and replace the filter. then knock everything back together and run it all up to temp and check for leaks, bleed the cooling system and do all your checks. then have a quick look at the oil. looks good? give it a short test ride and check it again. if there's any remaining evidence of water infiltration, then drain a fill but leave the filter. then run it all back again.

so, in your order add two oil filters and grab a gallon of T6 and you should be solid.

hopefully that makes sense?

-g
Well, pretty much. I need to translate to Midwesternese.....

Not quite clear on the "flush" part....just thoroughly drain?

Then replace the water pump with the new one, new oil, coolant, warm it up, do the checks, test ride. How long of a ride would I need? A few miles? If oil looks good, I'm likely all good? Am I looking for milky oil again?

The second filter is for the final fill with regular oil, assuming I'm all good?
Sergeant at Arms
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 12:28 am quote
yeah man, you got it. just thoroughly drain as best you can and then hose it out a little while you've got the cover off, a little gas or some brake clean would be fine.

new filter, fresh oil. run it for a few minutes and check it. then if it looks good give it a short test ride, maybe 5~6 miles. stop, let it rest and check it again. looks good? give it 10 miles and return to base.

let it sit for a bit and check it. any signs of yuck then change it again and run the same filter and run the same route. you just want it at operating temp.

looks good? then all clear. change the oil again and spin on a fresh filter. call it done.

good luck!

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:19 am quote
greasy125 wrote:
good luck!

-g
Thanks! Keep you posted. Unusually warm weather today, so why not start?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:03 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
greasy125 wrote:
good luck!

-g
Thanks! Keep you posted. Unusually warm weather today, so why not start?
Rooting for you. Take pictures of your progress.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:22 pm quote
Well, might as well make this a saga....

Got lazy this morning, but started this noon....scooter wouldn't start! Great, another problem to solve. Not sure what was going on, but as I had the plug out to inspect it, thought most likely thing was ignition...it was turning over fine. So popped the plug cap off to check things (was a bit unsure of the junction of the cable to plug gap when it was off. Wiggled a few things and tried to seat the cap. Grrr....big hands do not work well in there, alignment is important, and that plastic clip for the lead keeps the cap from popping on easily. I spent nearly an hour wiggling and pushing, and finally got it on. Took a minute, but started. Yayy! Any tips on making this easier?

Oil is drained, trim and crash bar removed, exhaust off (looks like I'll take the chance to repaint it.....).

So a bit behind my schedule, but I have tomorrow. Hope to get to the pump. Good news is I thought the garage would be a bit cold for the work, but I managed to not even feel cold, and the forecast is good for next week-even warmer.

Didn't order the water pump yet....waiting for contact with the supplier to be sure there's a match....I understand there were some changes over the years, and don't want to mess up.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:44 pm quote
Bravo!

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 05, 2020 5:30 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Bravo!

Patience, grasshopper.

Let's see if we're still cheering tomorrow...or next week.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Dec 06, 2020 5:59 pm quote
A'ight,

Back at her today. Drained coolant, which for some reason I was expecting to look clear, definitely has an oily/cloudy look. Disconnected shocks, spark plug cap(with some hesitance remembering how long it took me just to plug in the bugger a few days ago). Cranked up the back end and thought I might just end it for today as I have at least a few days before the new pump arrives....but then, decided to have at the water pump cover bolts. Some went well, but had some trouble accessing one on top, then spent 15 minutes rummaging around for a quarter inch drive 3/8 inch 8mm socket as I didn't have a long enough extension for my other options. After all that, concluded that I never had one and then found another way at it.

Anyway, just couldn't quite find a stopping point, so wound up pulling off the pump as originally planned...so now I'm stalled out for a few days. But other than taking twice as long as it should, it went well...maybe not easy peasy, but I didn't have to learn any new skills, and definitely more familiar with the inside of the scooter (which, I guess, is a lot more outside at the moment). You were right, greasy, not that hard.


Not as bad as the oil, but def not normal.


Managed to fit my workspace in front of the car so I don't have to scrape frost in the morning....and not as cold as I expected!


Ely the Assistant, who at least didn't jump onto my back to sit while I worked this time.



Last edited by fledermaus on Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Dec 06, 2020 6:13 pm quote
Coolant looks fine to my eyes, I mean heck there isn't even anything floating in it!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Dec 06, 2020 7:51 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Coolant looks fine to my eyes, I mean heck there isn't even anything floating in it!
I dunno, it wasn't a sickly muddy brown when I put it in a month ago.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:12 pm quote
Ely is adoroble.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:48 pm quote
Max6200 wrote:
Ely is adoroble.
+1
I had to check to see if my cat was still around. She is.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed Dec 09, 2020 6:39 pm quote
znomit wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
Ely is adoroble.
+1
I had to check to see if my cat was still around. She is.
He's all character. Handsome boy, too.

Now if he could just turn a wrench....
MV Santa
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Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:17 pm quote
fledermaus wrote:
znomit wrote:
Max6200 wrote:
Ely is adoroble.
+1
I had to check to see if my cat was still around. She is.
He's all character. Handsome boy, too.

Now if he could just turn a wrench....
This is Henrietta.

Look familiar?



Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:51 pm quote
vintage red matthew wrote:
This is Henrietta.

Look familiar?
Damn. And I thought he just went to the neighbors.
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Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:04 pm quote
Greetings:

Not sure what this has to do with your head gasket failure but here's Luna. She has a pet Pug named Freddie.



Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:26 pm quote
Cats are indeed more interesting that Fleds impending scooter maintenance on the kitchen table induced divorce.

Wait, will she take the cat?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:52 pm quote
znomit wrote:
Cats are indeed more interesting that Fleds impending scooter maintenance on the kitchen table induced divorce.

Wait, will she take the cat?
I think the cat will keep us together. Not like my ex's little spayed bitch that would hump anything in sight... my Labrador, stepson's leg, and otherwise annoying AF. I was gonna make sure she left WITH the dog.

Ely update....went outside and as he's obsessed with going out, gave him a shot at it....sat in the middle of the garden watching the tall grass for an hour or more. Finally went to get him, something kicked up and ran...thought it was a rabbit, but at second glance, a big long-haired cat. Ely took out after it, full speed, 100 yards across the neighbor's yard until I lost sight of them. Came back a while later he was sitting in our yard staring off in that direction....

As there has been a temporary lull in mechanical activities, looks like cats have taken over the thread. I DID pain the exhaust with VHT today though. Wait until I try to bake it in the oven. If Mrs f goes for that, who knows where I'll get to work on the scooter....
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:39 am quote
Quote:
As there has been a temporary lull in mechanical activities, looks like cats have taken over the thread. I DID pain the exhaust with VHT today though. Wait until I try to bake it in the oven. If Mrs f goes for that, who knows where I'll get to work on the scooter....
This might take an act in diplomacy. Just a little bit maybe.🤏
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Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:39 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
yeah man, you got it. just thoroughly drain as best you can and then hose it out a little while you've got the cover off, a little gas or some brake clean would be fine.

-g
I've known a few people who have dropped bikes out of boats or otherwise gotten them completely under water. A very often used flush is with either diesel or kerosene, depending on which one is handy in the part of the world where it fell in. The idea is to put the fluid in the crankcase, then crank the bike over a few times, to get it up into the top end and pretty much everywhere oil goes. I would fill the crankcase up to the oil hole, take the plug out, and let it spin for a couple of minutes, at least.
One guy I was riding with lost a KLR 650 off a canoe in the Amazon, and ended up putting at least 30K more miles on it after the flush, which I think was with diesel. That's a lot for a KLR that hasn't fallen off a canoe.
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Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:12 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
greasy125 wrote:
yeah man, you got it. just thoroughly drain as best you can and then hose it out a little while you've got the cover off, a little gas or some brake clean would be fine.

-g
I've known a few people who have dropped bikes out of boats or otherwise gotten them completely under water. A very often used flush is with either diesel or kerosene, depending on which one is handy in the part of the world where it fell in. The idea is to put the fluid in the crankcase, then crank the bike over a few times, to get it up into the top end and pretty much everywhere oil goes. I would fill the crankcase up to the oil hole, take the plug out, and let it spin for a couple of minutes, at least.
One guy I was riding with lost a KLR 650 off a canoe in the Amazon, and ended up putting at least 30K more miles on it after the flush, which I think was with diesel. That's a lot for a KLR that hasn't fallen off a canoe.
It brings to mind the legendary champion motorcycle racer, Joey Dunlop. In 1985 he set out from his home in Ireland in a converted fishing trawler to make the relatively short sea crossing to compete in that years Isle of Man TT race. The boat struck rocks and sank shortly after leaving Strangford Lough. All onboard were rescued, the 5 racing bikes were removed from the sunken wreck and the works Honda racing team completely stripped and reassembled the bikes in time for the race. Joey went on to win the Senior TT race following the incident.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:29 am quote
HEY, WE'RE TALKING WATER PUMPS HERE!

CATS AND DOGS AND INUNDATED MOTORCYLCES?? FFS.


You've gotta love this forum....



Stay tuned. Christmas present from myself and Scooterwest arrived yesterday and a shiny new water pump is on the dining room table (with all of the other COVID-era mess), and Mrs. f hasn't said a word....or noticed yet. Full weekend with not much to do and a bit of a snowstorm outside, so, there may be some action....but first, coffee....
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:42 am quote
fledermaus wrote:
HEY, WE'RE TALKING WATER PUMPS HERE!

CATS AND DOGS AND INUNDATED MOTORCYLCES?? FFS.


You've gotta love this forum....



Stay tuned. Christmas present from myself and Scooterwest arrived yesterday and a shiny new water pump is on the dining room table (with all of the other COVID-era mess), and Mrs. f hasn't said a word....or noticed yet. Full weekend with not much to do and a bit of a snowstorm outside, so, there may be some action....but first, coffee....
Mmm, Fledermaus coffee...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 9789
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:57 am quote
Madison Sully wrote:
fledermaus wrote:
HEY, WE'RE TALKING WATER PUMPS HERE!

CATS AND DOGS AND INUNDATED MOTORCYLCES?? FFS.


You've gotta love this forum....



Stay tuned. Christmas present from myself and Scooterwest arrived yesterday and a shiny new water pump is on the dining room table (with all of the other COVID-era mess), and Mrs. f hasn't said a word....or noticed yet. Full weekend with not much to do and a bit of a snowstorm outside, so, there may be some action....but first, coffee....
Mmm, Fledermaus coffee...
Which version? Previous version at la Casa de fledermaus, or the newly minted Vespa Crankcase Cappuccino?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Dec 12, 2020 3:11 pm quote
Quote:
Which version? Previous version at la Casa de fledermaus, or the newly minted Vespa Crankcase Cappuccino?
I will go with the casa de fledermous version. AND i will take a double with a dash of nutmet on top.
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