Modern Vespa

update your carb filter to a 20.20. you have an earlier one which you had to cut in order to fit your newer 20.20 carb. you will not regret it.

Thanks Gick - It's on order. It looks like the person that put the 20/20 carb on Rocket cut out the old choke mechanism for the old carb. A shame.

Speaking of that - I've got a 20/15 carb and proper filter if you come across anybody doing a restoration, vs just a upgrade/rebuild. Actually, I've got all the parts - Cylinder/Piston/Shocks.....

i have an entire tote of 20.15 and 20.17 carbs.

There was a local guy that thought he knew what he was doing, thought he was cleaver, and rode his Allstate across the great state of Indiana with the front swingarm spring not screwed into the plate holder. it must have been the worst riding Allstate ever. anyways, some other folks bought this bike after his "epic" ride with friends and had me go through it. Not only did he not match the carb box to the new 20.20 carb, but he cut the filter up to match the carb much like what you have there. "i've done restoration before, this should be simple. i got this." okay.

I hear you Gick. People's ignorance amazes me sometimes. Not that they don't know, it's that they think they know.

I know enough to KNOW I don't know. Well, not everything, but definitely not to do a restoration, and to know the difference between restoration and refurbishing.

On to todays endeavors!

Chris came over and we were psyched to get the engine running - spoiler alert - we're back to where we started!

Here is the blow-by-blow:

So we heat up the fly side of the case and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. Hmmm, the seal doesn't look right on the fly side case. We melted it while heating up on the hotplate.

Split the cases, replace the fly side seal and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. Dangit - here is the kickstart gear - fell out when splitting the cases.

Split the cases, in the kickstart gear and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. So far so good.

Install piston, cylinder, head, and pressure test - wooohooo - holding solid while we BS and drink coffee and eat cinnamon rolls.

So, install the carb, ....and stator, .....and flywheel

Then comes the clutch - we got it installed and realized it wasn't working right. We forgot the washer behind the clutch. After putting the washer in, we couldn't get the clutch to slide onto the woodruff key - filing and screwdrivers were involved....until....I noticed the seal behind the washer was damaged, by said screwdriver trying to pop the back of the woodruff key down and slide it into the clutch. DAMN

Split the cases - for the third time - and put in the new clutch side seal. Fortunately we had a spare set of seals.

And we ran out of time for the day. So we're essentially where we started. I enjoyed BSing in the garage with Chris and also learned two valuable lessons:

1) Don't overheat the rubber seal when heating up the case, and
2) Dont f&ck up the seal behind the clutch with a screwdriver - and don't forget the washer, which would've prohibited the seal from getting whacked by the screwdriver.

Still, a great day wrenching


Chris heating up flyside case half

Crispy seal

On goes the head

Pressure is holding - premature celebration of more coffee!

Sexy Pinasco clutch

Damaged clutch side seal

New clutch side seal installed. Back to square one

Great work guys!!! Very inspiring. Celebratory Coffee is well deserved

I think you might find it's the main crank bearing that goes in first and butts up against the circlip, then the seal goes on after the bearing is fully installed. You'll need to use a crank bearing installation tool, or heat up the casing around this area to install the bearing.

So we got the VNB5 started, and the first heat cycle.

We had a couple of scares - stripped out the old flywheel bolt - thought it was the new crank! And snapped off an old bolt for the clutch cover. It came out easily with a pair of pliers.

As far as the pressure test, it was holding steady at 140 for 7 minutes while we BS'd. Sweet.

Now to run a few more heat cycles on the stand, and reinstall in the chassis.

The kickstart quadrant is jacked, and we didn't put in a new one, thinking the old one was OK. So we're going to try a new kick start arm first, and if the cases need to be split once again, so be it...

BTW, we went for a fun, rainy ride to the beach and did a couple of runs comparing the P200 vs the 177. The 177 pulls stronger

This is the very first start - with all the fiddling included. It even started with the kickstart lever slipping a set of teeth.
https://youtu.be/6vqAqb36uMI


Pressure testing the case

Are we having fun yet? Oh yeah!

Jetty overlook

Ocean stop

Old Town harbor stop

dig that!

I know that I wish I lived much closer and come play with you boys sometimes.

Isn’t it amazing how a two-stroke engine can bring so much joy?

I know - crazy!

Thank BN!

And Voodoo - you are welcome to come hang out ANYTIME! I even got a scooter for you to ride. Yes, that's right, three running, vintage scooters. It could've been three scooters in those pictures yesterday.

Something tells me we'd have more fun coming up to your neck of the woods though.

Slow progress. The kickstart lever on Rocket is stripped. A new one (with a quadrant) has been ordered.

Chris has been busy with work so I've been continuing work on Rocket - slowly.

So I put the brake assembly together,
The engine back in the chassis,
Reinstalled the selector box,
Dialed in the clutch and brake cable.

Then I realized I haven't taken a close look at the kickstart quadrant and compared it to B62's brand new one. It looks like the quadrant needs to be replaced or the new lever is gonna get stripped. The divot where the bolt goes has been elongated on top of the quadrant.

Dangit - gotta split the cases - again. Maybe we'll do it while it's in the chassis. Hmmm...


Brakes assembled - I won't bore you with all the other pics of the assembly process

Sexy Pinasco hub

Kickstart quadrant ovalized top the bolt cutout. No good...

I took the motorhome in to get some work done on it and rode the scooter home. It was a bit chilly outside.

QA, do you have a welder? I had a similar thing on the headset bolt on Rufus (since you give your scoots names the red Allstate I am close to finishing is Rufus). I filled it with some weld and then smoothed it out. Worked great.

Yes, concern about heat so close to the case BUT you can have a cold wet rag and douse it as soon as the weld is in. I would absolutely do that before opening the case.

D

It's been a while. Ordered parts and took a trip - and time flies by.

So Chris came over today and we got the rocket back in Rocket. It was a fantastically productive day! The progress is as follows:

Split cases (again) and installed a new kickstart quadrant and lever. We figured we came this far, why wimp out and not replace it...

Put together the case halves, piston, cylinder, pressure leak test, stator, flywheel, clutch cable, brake cable, shift box, and tire, all in record time, well, for us anyway.

BTW, thanks CM2 for the faster way to install the rings and piston. It shaved some time off the whole process.

Chris rolled it outside and kicked it over - smiles all around!

So now it's all about timing it (18 degrees BTDC), get a B8HS plug in it (it's got a 7 in it now), write the jets down, and start heat cycling it. Chris left it in my garage so I'll do what I can so the next time he comes over, hopefully it'll be almost dialed in.

We did ride into town and get a burrito, then ate it by the abandoned restaurant with a view of the bridge. We took B-62 and Olive but I forgot to get pictures. Some of us don't have paparazzi following us around - I'm talking to you K32!

First start:
https://youtu.be/Pgi9BvmerrQ

First ride:
https://youtu.be/7naoeZ7pxV4


Good Coffee, good friends, cool scooters, and a healthy dose of BS. A good day

Lets fire this baby up!

Check out the new junction box - sweet! Thanks David - your shop ScooterMercato Rocks!

I know he's happy!

Looking good guys! Rocket sounds nice in puuuurrdy!

Awesome job!

Sounds good. Jet it until it faintly splutters at 1/2. Run it in quick and se how rocket it is.

Little concerned about what happens to that junction box and wires when the suspension bottoms out.

Congratulations, qa!

You’ve got Rocket nearly 2-stroking into orbit! He looks and sounds great!

Copious amounts of gourmet coffee are well deserved—that’s a heck of a task list you plinked off today.

Love all the pics and vids and the Harbor Town rainy ocean views earlier in the thread. You take so many clear progress photos that even noobs like me can follow and learn. Well, I can follow SOME of your stuff. You won’t find me splitting my cases any time soon, even though I’m drooling over your Pinasco clutch.

As far as finding your own paparazzi, the secret is brownies. Bake them and they will come.....

(brownies are served AFTER photos, duh )

Hey Chatis - I missed your post somehow. We decided to just bite the bullet and split the cases - again - and put in a new kickstart quadrant. But we have the old one to weld and file up to use as a spare, or another build.

Thanks GL and Swiss. And GL - it's getting nice out there. Chris and I are thinking of doing a ride inland around the Eugene/Cottage Grove area. Are you in?

Thank you Jack - we're pretty excited and now that it's all together, it should get run in fairly quickly, and I'll keep an eye on the wires. They felt short to me too. We changed the shock and it's a bit taller, even with a cut down spacer, so we'll see what we do on that front. If need be I'll extend the wires. I've also been warned about the subpar ignition on the unit. Looks like getting a blue CDI for a spare is in order....

And K - thanks for the kind complements. I try, but I'm not very good at documenting the whole experience. I usually forget to take pics in the moment, then the good moment is passed. C'est la Vie.

I have a feeling though, no matter how many brownies I make, nobody's gonna take pics of B62 and me, like your awesome pics, unless I'm taking selfies

And like Chris keeps saying - "This build process is a journey - who knows how long it'll take. It'll take what it'll take." I love that attitude!

outstanding guys great report and photo's especially the videos

I am so in! I'm working on building a bit of a runner now, stay tuned

Also, Oregon 100 Rallye coming up soon!

Looks great!

Rocket is looking good! Well done guys!

Thanks Hibbert, BN and LuckyBear! I'm excited to time it and get it on the road. Unfortunately, I've got prior plans on that weekend. I'm big time bummed I cannot do it this year. Chris will be there though!

I've been wanting to ride inland for a while now and Chris will give us the grand tour on the roads there. He knows them all and has pretty much ridden his bicycle on all of them, as well as driven them of course...

No Worries qascooter! There are more rally's happening this year than last, so there will be other opportunities. Especially if we make our own mini-Oregon-rally! Loving this idea! Its so green up here, I have yet to truly explore

You boys look like you're having a good time down there! I may have to drop down there in a couple of months and check up on you! I could maybe bring a couple scooters that been acting up some if you don't mind....

Come on down! That would be awesome Terry. And like I said before, I've got three runners and you're welcome to ride them all when I take you around the area and show you the sights.

So when are headed this way?

This whole journey has been a learning process. Now we’re learning to keep the front ends down. Or maybe NOT

Show off!

Lookin' good!

Lookin Good!

Hahaha. Love that pic.
Looks like y’all are having some good times up there!

Thanks guys - lotsa fun, as you can see.

I set the timing and ran a 1/2 dozen heat cycles on Rocket over the past week.

So today was tuning day! Chris came over and we rode them around town and stopped a bunch to try different combinations and see what worked the best. Neither bike has gotten rid of the 1/4 throttle stutter, or splutter. Not sure which one it is.

But what a bitchen day. It was sunny, riding and changing jets in scenic spots makes for a nice day indeed...

Oh, and we put in about 40 miles or so today. I've already put 10 to 20 on Rocket, so it's got about 50 to 60 miles on the newly rebuilt engine. Lots of heat cycles so far though. And did you notice the cool Stadium folding mirrors?


Tuning day - how exciting!

Let's roll!

First stop - the port on the Siuslaw River, and through Old Town of course

Gotta get in at least one picture :P

River mouth overlook

Jetting notes - any suggestions on what to try?

Are both a similar cylinder on the same size carb? What size is the squish and where is the timing strobed too?

Have you tried cylinder head temperature gauges or exhaust temperature gauges? I find it interesting to watch the temperature at various throttle positions. For instance rich at WOT you can watch the temperature drop. Lean at WOT you can watch it rise. When I was a bit lean at 3/4 and if I held it there I could see the temperature go up. Go to WOT and I could see the temperature drop back down.

Hey Christopher - no, not on these builds. I have a TrailTech on my P200, but didn't want to ruin the lines on these bikes. Maybe I can hook it up temporarily until it's dialed in. Hmmm, should've thought of this earlier - thanks!

Jack - thanks for asking! I was hoping you'd take a crack at it....

Both have the same:
Sexy Pinasco flowed cranks, 57mm
Pinasco 2 port 177 kits - We didn't measure the squish when assembling.
20/20 carbs - float passage drilled out to 2.0mm
Inlet opened up a bit and flowed to carb and box.
Rocket is timed at 20 degrees
B-62 is timed at 18 degrees. I'm going to change this to 20/21 degrees

Does anybody know what the squish is for these Pinasco 2-port 177 kits?


Sexy....

Oh, I forgot to mention...

I WILL be setting the timing on B62 to 20/21,

Then running it with a big ass main jet and working down from wide open throttle splutter to establish what the MJ should be.

I did this before when I only had the kit on it, not after it's been rebuilt with the new crank and flowed carb and inlet...

Yesterday was more about heat cycles for Rocket more than anything. And come to think of it - I should of done the main jet walkdown yesterday on B-62....

And I keep looking at the fancy SIP Digital Speedo - just cause it's got a built in CHT, Rev counter, etc.

But I've got to get the existing speedo to work first. My issue is at the hub. I've chewed up three gears down there - all three have stripped. I gotta take the hub apart and look at the gears and see what's going on. I have a suspicion that it's a funky size because it's got some in-between years parts from the factory installed.

Are they not both static electronic ignition? Why set the timing at 21? 18 is a good place to leave them until the jetting is better.

20/20 carb is less difficult to set up. AC140 and BE5 in both until there is a reason to change it. Main jet about 5 points under faint WOT splutter in 3rd gear. Just leaves the pilot jet and that should be whatever gives 2.5 turns at tickover and ends in /140

Should be done in no time and back out into the scenery.

i'm in the middle of fitting a sip speedo on my vnb1 a real PIA the fork needs to be dropped to thread all the wires through the frame and some of the connectors need to be removed because they don't fit through the slots in the head set
make sure you've threaded the temp gauge wire so the connector plugs are not back to front beer o'clock !!!

I read it on a post here that beedspeed recommends timing for the 177 two and three port kits should be 20/21 degrees. I'll leave it at 18 and set Rocket up at 18 also.

So Jack - a huge THANK YOU. Your knowledge and advice is greatly appreciated. I'm gonna make this happen in the next few days and post how it goes...

And thanks for the tips shipscat! I was watching a SIP vid on how to install and I was thinking it was going to be a PITA, and you've confirmed it But they do look cool, and multifunctional...