Mater My 1958 Allstate Project.
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Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:27 pm quote
Should be picking up an Allstate Sunday morning. The 8" tires aren't in great shape and I don't trust them to hold air for transport. Also not going to use the center stand for transport. What's a good way to secure it on my 4' x 8' trailer? I have plenty of ratchet straps to choose from.

Without good tires my wheel chock is out of the picture.

I really don't want to lay it on it's side for 100 miles bouncing down the road.

I have a saw and 2x4 and 2 x8 construction lumber if that helps.

In the past, I have put a set of 2 x 4 's down the center and screwed them down. Then pushed the scooter between them, then strapped the rear down with straps, one left and right. The front wheel was held in place with a wheel chock. With one across the floorboard area lightly pulling forward into the chock. No issues and went 100's of miles. The issue now is tires aren't trustworthy.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sun May 02, 2021 1:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:33 pm quote
can you simply slip a short piece of a 2x4 under the front tire in order to raise it up higher (so that the scooter fits better in your chock)?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:45 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
can you simply slip a short piece of a 2x4 under the front tire in order to raise it up higher (so that the scooter fits better in your chock)?
A flat 8" tire is physically to small for my wheel chock, won't cradle the tire and hold it in place. It's the smallest tire it will hold and there's no adjustment left. If it were a 10" and flat I think I could adjust for 8" and I might get away with that.
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:53 pm quote
I dont use a wheel chock in my truck. Normally I use a small cut of a 4x4 wood in front of tire to get the fender away from the bed wall. This last time when I picked up my smallframe, I forgot the cut of wood, but the guy had a spare tire on the smallframe. I took the spare tire off the mount and stuck it in front of the front wheel against the bed wall. It was the perfect size to fit below the fender while holding it far enough away from the wall to keep the fender from contacting it.

I know most say don't tie down on handle bars. I have canyon dancers for the handlebars and I make sure not to wratchet the front end down too much.. to prevent bars getting damaged. Just enough to hold it steady and make sure it won't move. Just seems easier to do that and be deliberate about not cranking down too much, than any other sort of strapping the front end down. I also started strapping down the back using rear rack I have installed... cause one time my stella wasn't completely straight in bed and the back tire bounced enough to move the back end further out from straight and the bike started falling to one side. Luckily I spotted it right away and I had barely started moving. Was able to fix that one quick.


flat tires.. spare tire came in handy on this one.

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:10 pm quote
Anyone tried one of these with an 8" wheel?

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200692634_200692634
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:12 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I dont use a wheel chock in my truck. Normally I use a small cut of a 4x4 wood in front of tire to get the fender away from the bed wall. This last time when I picked up my smallframe, I forgot the cut of wood, but the guy had a spare tire on the smallframe. I took the spare tire off the mount and stuck it in front of the front wheel against the bed wall. It was the perfect size to fit below the fender while holding it far enough away from the wall to keep the fender from contacting it.

I know most say don't tie down on handle bars. I have canyon dancers for the handlebars and I make sure not to wratchet the front end down too much.. to prevent bars getting damaged. Just enough to hold it steady and make sure it won't move. Just seems easier to do that and be deliberate about not cranking down too much, than any other sort of strapping the front end down. I also started strapping down the back using rear rack I have installed... cause one time my stella wasn't completely straight in bed and the back tire bounced enough to move the back end further out from straight and the bike started falling to one side. Luckily I spotted it right away and I had barely started moving. Was able to fix that one quick.
One of my issues is my trailer is open on the sides. I don't have a front wall to pull the tire up against. Hoping something thing like one of these might work.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200692634_200692634
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:25 pm quote
Ah ok that makes sense. If your trailer is wood bottom.. you could possibly try installing this?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUWZ8C/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A9NJNMT9ZTSIP&psc=1

I thought about getting a harbor freight fold up trailer a few months ago and using a couple of these to have a way to tow some scooters. But I gave up on it cause I dont really have space to store even a fold up trailer.. nor did I have confidence in a harbor freight trailer for 1200 mile trips!

Best of luck!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:49 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Ah ok that makes sense. If your trailer is wood bottom.. you could possibly try installing this?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005SUWZ8C/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A9NJNMT9ZTSIP&psc=1

I thought about getting a harbor freight fold up trailer a few months ago and using a couple of these to have a way to tow some scooters. But I gave up on it cause I dont really have space to store even a fold up trailer.. nor did I have confidence in a harbor freight trailer for 1200 mile trips!

Best of luck!
That's what I have for a trailer, second one. Repacked the wheel bearings and installed bearing buddies. The heavy duty version came with larger diameter 12" tires, slowing bearing rotation speed down a bit.

Bought a canyon dancer off of Amazon, looks like it will fit both scooters. Should be here Friday.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Tue Apr 27, 2021 6:48 pm quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I dont use a wheel chock in my truck. Normally I use a small cut of a 4x4 wood in front of tire to get the fender away from the bed wall. This last time when I picked up my smallframe, I forgot the cut of wood, but the guy had a spare tire on the smallframe. I took the spare tire off the mount and stuck it in front of the front wheel against the bed wall. It was the perfect size to fit below the fender while holding it far enough away from the wall to keep the fender from contacting it.

I know most say don't tie down on handle bars. I have canyon dancers for the handlebars and I make sure not to wratchet the front end down too much.. to prevent bars getting damaged. Just enough to hold it steady and make sure it won't move. Just seems easier to do that and be deliberate about not cranking down too much, than any other sort of strapping the front end down. I also started strapping down the back using rear rack I have installed... cause one time my stella wasn't completely straight in bed and the back tire bounced enough to move the back end further out from straight and the bike started falling to one side. Luckily I spotted it right away and I had barely started moving. Was able to fix that one quick.
One of my issues is my trailer is open on the sides. I don't have a front wall to pull the tire up against. Hoping something thing like one of these might work.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200692634_200692634
I think those chocks at northern tool are going to be even too tall for a 10” wheel. I think you would need closer to at least a 12” wheel to be able to utilize them.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:54 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I dont use a wheel chock in my truck. Normally I use a small cut of a 4x4 wood in front of tire to get the fender away from the bed wall. This last time when I picked up my smallframe, I forgot the cut of wood, but the guy had a spare tire on the smallframe. I took the spare tire off the mount and stuck it in front of the front wheel against the bed wall. It was the perfect size to fit below the fender while holding it far enough away from the wall to keep the fender from contacting it.

I know most say don't tie down on handle bars. I have canyon dancers for the handlebars and I make sure not to wratchet the front end down too much.. to prevent bars getting damaged. Just enough to hold it steady and make sure it won't move. Just seems easier to do that and be deliberate about not cranking down too much, than any other sort of strapping the front end down. I also started strapping down the back using rear rack I have installed... cause one time my stella wasn't completely straight in bed and the back tire bounced enough to move the back end further out from straight and the bike started falling to one side. Luckily I spotted it right away and I had barely started moving. Was able to fix that one quick.
One of my issues is my trailer is open on the sides. I don't have a front wall to pull the tire up against. Hoping something thing like one of these might work.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200692634_200692634
I think those chocks at northern tool are going to be even too tall for a 10” wheel. I think you would need closer to at least a 12” wheel to be able to utilize them.
Your correct I found a spec and there way to tall.
Member
Rally 200
Joined: 11 Apr 2021
Posts: 40
Location: Altrincham
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:48 am quote
Sit it in two old wheel rims with tyres on, then ratchet strap it down.
Should help to stop it moving around.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2967

Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:41 am quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
I dont use a wheel chock in my truck. Normally I use a small cut of a 4x4 wood in front of tire to get the fender away from the bed wall. This last time when I picked up my smallframe, I forgot the cut of wood, but the guy had a spare tire on the smallframe. I took the spare tire off the mount and stuck it in front of the front wheel against the bed wall. It was the perfect size to fit below the fender while holding it far enough away from the wall to keep the fender from contacting it.

I know most say don't tie down on handle bars. I have canyon dancers for the handlebars and I make sure not to wratchet the front end down too much.. to prevent bars getting damaged. Just enough to hold it steady and make sure it won't move. Just seems easier to do that and be deliberate about not cranking down too much, than any other sort of strapping the front end down. I also started strapping down the back using rear rack I have installed... cause one time my stella wasn't completely straight in bed and the back tire bounced enough to move the back end further out from straight and the bike started falling to one side. Luckily I spotted it right away and I had barely started moving. Was able to fix that one quick.
One of my issues is my trailer is open on the sides. I don't have a front wall to pull the tire up against. Hoping something thing like one of these might work.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200692634_200692634
I think those chocks at northern tool are going to be even too tall for a 10” wheel. I think you would need closer to at least a 12” wheel to be able to utilize them.
Your correct I found a spec and there way to tall.
I only know this because i've bought the same chocks before (from cycle gear). I ended up cutting out the support bar, bending down the upper hoop a bunch, then welding in a new (shorter) support bar.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:31 pm quote
Stack up a few chopped 2x4's in the front of the trailer. Make it about 1/2 way height of the wheel, and with enough distance from the front; so the front fender wont hit the trailer wall.

Slide that old oily beast up in there, mash the front tire against the stack of wood.

Strap down as usual:
1 strap each side of handle bars !!! NOT on the grips !!! Position these straps so they attached to the trailer in a forward position of the handle bars. So when you tighten down, they pull the scooter down & forward. Compressing the suspension, and smashing that flat into the stack of wood blocks. Add a strap on back, around the seat bolt or through the luggage rack. Boom, all done! Shouldn't go anywhere.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:16 pm quote
attach a sidecar.
or
do what GeekLion said.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5809
Location: So Cal
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:22 pm quote
Let the air out of the tires
Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB ‘65 Allstate
Joined: 08 May 2012
Posts: 1503
Location: Salem OR Sucks
Thu Apr 29, 2021 2:11 am quote
Haven’t ever used any sort of wheel chock...

Also, Patrick at PTown Scooters instructed me to never secure a bike by the bars, and I always listen to that dude.

All you really need is three tie down straps: two for the front, one for the rear.

For the front, you’re going to want to separate each strap from the ratchet or clasp (depending on which type strap you’re using). Each strap will now be in two pieces, a short portion, which will have the ratchet or clasp attached to it (set this aside for now), and a longer portion which will have a hook at one end, and bare strap at the other end (which threads into the ratchet/clasp).

You’re going to take that bare end, double it around and thread it through the loop that attaches the hook to the opposite end. This will create a large sliding loop that will function somewhat like a slip knot. Throw that loop over the headset, and pull it tight around the neck/column, just underneath the headset.

Reattach the bare end of the strap to the ratchet/clasp that you set aside earlier. Attach the hook to the left side of your trailer/truck bed as far forward as possible.

Repeat this process for the right side.

For the rear, you simply attach each hook of your third strap as far to the rear on each side of you truck bed/trailer as possible, then pass the strap across the curved portion of the frame under the seat (right above the choke lever/oil sight glass).

Now, take your bike off the center stand and tighten all your straps until they’re taut as a bowstring. Your scooter should now be rock solid and going exactly NOWHERE.

The final step is to drive it over to my place and drop it off. I’ll take good care of it...
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 628
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:03 am quote
macgerk77 wrote:
Haven’t ever used any sort of wheel chock...


You’re going to take that bare end, double it around and thread it through the loop that attaches the hook to the opposite end. This will create a large sliding loop that will function somewhat like a slip knot. Throw that loop over the headset, and pull it tight around the neck/column, just underneath the headset.

Reattach the bare end of the strap to the ratchet/clasp that you set aside earlier. Attach the hook to the left side of your trailer/truck bed as far forward as possible.

Repeat this process for the right side.

Great advice. I've personally never had an issue, but better safe than sorry. I have tied some down this way around the neck, instead of the bars. It is more secure, and a stronger tie down point as well.

I fixed this for ya too
The final step is to drive it over to my (geeklion's) place and drop it off. I’ll take good care of it...
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:33 am quote
I like the idea of wrapping straps around the neck, even if it bounces a bit the strap wont let go. The loop method described is basically what I use currently use, even when wrapping around tubes on the swing arms.

I have canyon dancers on order and should be at my house tomorrow. Will probably use both as extra security.

My trailer doesn't have sides installed, it is a 4' x 8' flat bed with a wooden floor. I have three 2" x 8" boards cut into 4 foot pieces and will screw them to the bed across the front for a stop. That should give me a height of 4.5" hopefully the fender tip won't be in the way. Will take a few extra pieces to build up front height if I can. I have an electric impact and some large screws from a decking project. I will also screw two, 2' x 4" to the floor a few inches to the left and right of center. I usually do that to keep a motorcycle or scooter straight. The wheels are trapped between the boards length wise that way. You don't have to tie them down as tight as your only holding the top upright the 2" x 4" keeps it from sliding left or right.
Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 297
Location: Philadelphia
Thu Apr 29, 2021 6:23 am quote
Congrats on the new to you bike!

Everyone I think already got you covered on options for transport.
Can’t wait to see the pics and follow the work!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 02, 2021 12:52 pm quote
Aired up tires and they held, used canyon dancers to hold scooter upright, no issues.

Back's going flat again need to put new tires on to make my life easier.

Out of curiosity, I put 30 weight oil in the crank case gear box. Poured straight two stroke oil down the carburetor. Put two gallons of 20:1 premix in the tank. Pushed Mater a bit no luck. Poured two stroke premix down the carburetor and pushed down the drive in second gear a few times, Mater fired up then died. Tried a few more times was able to run for 30 seconds or so with the choke on before dying again.

Mater runs, need to clean out fuel system and see what I get. That's going to be a much later project. I'll collect a few parts for this fall and see what happens.





















Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sun May 02, 2021 1:17 pm; edited 4 times in total
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2963
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun May 02, 2021 12:55 pm quote
Congrats. Nice scoot!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 02, 2021 1:36 pm quote
Identifying What I think is a 1958 Allstate.
Identifying Mater, the Allstate 788.94493 Metal tag under seat, comes up as a 1958, VA9T as the beginning of the VIN also says 1958, in my searches. Would it be fair to say he's a 1958?


http://www.kylesscootershop.com/allstate-78894493-va9t-1958

https://www.scooterhelp.com/scooters/allstate.788.94493.html

https://www.scooterwest.com/discover-learn/large-frame-vin/

https://www.searsallstateriders.com/model/788.94493.html
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 02, 2021 1:43 pm quote
Service Manual
Anybody used this, anyone have a copy? Is it worth it?

https://www.searsallstateriders.com/store/part/788.94493-service-div28-june1958-no2.html
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8151
Location: seattle/athens
Sun May 02, 2021 3:52 pm quote


WoW! Piston ported, and it runs! Congratulations, she is a beauty and looks straight & solid from here. Scooterhelp confirms that the motor is a 1958. You may be able to eventually remove that black and red paint, the original baby blue is pretty tuff, but not until AFTER riding season, right? And it's originally the same color as my '58 AllState ( Scruffy AllState, crappy headlight finally fixed! ). Subscribed.
Addicted
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '66 Allstate SF, '65 VBB, '66 180SS
Joined: 27 Mar 2013
Posts: 866
Location: S.Salem, NY
Sun May 02, 2021 4:27 pm quote
Nice. Was the air snorkel originally connected to the hole in the body ?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 02, 2021 4:36 pm quote
Moto64 wrote:
Nice. Was the air snorkel originally connected to the hole in the body ?
Yes
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4844
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun May 02, 2021 4:50 pm quote
Lovely.
*watching*
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun May 02, 2021 4:57 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:


WoW! Piston ported, and it runs! Congratulations, she is a beauty and looks straight & solid from here. Scooterhelp confirms that the motor is a 1958. You may be able to eventually remove that black and red paint, the original baby blue is pretty tuff, but not until AFTER riding season, right? And it's originally the same color as my '58 AllState ( Scruffy AllState, crappy headlight finally fixed! ). Subscribed.
Yeah, I have to many other projects to get done this summer. When I get some free time I'll rebuild the carburetor, will get a carb rebuild kit and a few other parts on order. It wants to run with the choke on.

The body does appear to be solid and rust free, that's the reason I bought it.

The horn works, I pressed it a few times on accident.

I might try some mineral spirits just to see if the two layers of paint comes off, the original color is a Light blue like Mater on the movie Cars. I think it was the only color you could get that year.

I'd like to find a 1958 or 1959 motorcycle plate for Minnesota.



Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2238
Location: california
Sun May 02, 2021 7:28 pm quote
Congrats Christopher - good find.
Will enjoy the unwrapping.
The thing you have to watch with the canyon dancers is unseen.
The throttle and shift tubes have unreasonably large rectangular cut outs on them - and they can begin to crack from the corners of those cut outs - inside the headset - and you don't know - until you are driving down the road holding one of them in your hand waving it around in the air connected to the bike by nothing more than basically a bit of wiring and cartilage.

Ask me how I know...

Do yourself a favor - when you get it in shape - consider replacing those tubes in any event. They are old and you have no idea what's been done with them.

https://youtu.be/6ldalpCTXHU
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon May 03, 2021 2:27 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Congrats Christopher - good find.
Will enjoy the unwrapping.
The thing you have to watch with the canyon dancers is unseen.
The throttle and shift tubes have unreasonably large rectangular cut outs on them - and they can begin to crack from the corners of those cut outs - inside the headset - and you don't know - until you are driving down the road holding one of them in your hand waving it around in the air connected to the bike by nothing more than basically a bit of wiring and cartilage.

Ask me how I know...

Do yourself a favor - when you get it in shape - consider replacing those tubes in any event. They are old and you have no idea what's been done with them.

https://youtu.be/6ldalpCTXHU
I think that guy was drunk.

I'll split the headset and have a look one day. Will do it before I put new grips on.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue May 04, 2021 6:15 pm quote
Cleaned out a plugged fuel tap, no fuel was coming out of hose in reserve or on position. Have a carburetor rebuild kit on order. Hopefully Mater will idle then, without choke on. Need to see if I have a B7HS plug in my toolbox.

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1662
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat May 08, 2021 4:57 pm quote
Rear shock rebuild
I was reading the service manual and see the rear shock can be rebuilt. Anyone know where I can get the seals etc?
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