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UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
Is that a variant of the Pinasco 251 crank?
@108 avatar
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UTC quote
No more clutch woodruff!!

(Celebrate)
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
No more clutch woodruff!!

(Celebrate)
So long as you don't mind paying $1k USD for a crank and however much the clutch cog sets you back, but other than that, totally agree!
@108 avatar
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
So long as you don't mind paying $1k USD for a crank and however much the clutch cog sets you back, but other than that, totally agree!
Isn't the price about the same as other new cranks?

I'm not a fan on the mushroom clutch cog, just for the reason I haven't found a basket I like which fits.

I actually prefer the woodruff setup (something nostalgic about it), but something in my head tells me from an engineering perspective, it can't take those loads from a tuned setup
⚠️ Last edited by 108 on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
So long as you don't mind paying $1k USD for a crank and however much the clutch cog sets you back, but other than that, totally agree!
less than $500 for both.

Crank and Clutch for less than a Lambretta Crank or Clutch

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-crankshaft-kit-sip-performance-geared-disc-valve_45029300
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The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
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The Dude
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UTC quote
I would consider this toothed crank & clutch option. Once you get into the true performance parts category, the cost for these is on par with comparable options.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
GeekLion wrote:
I would consider this toothed crank & clutch option. Once you get into the true performance parts category, the cost for these is on par with comparable options.
I'd totally jump on a splined crank and clutch at the $500-600 price point if the crank met my other requirements.

I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days.
OP
@safis avatar
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'd totally jump on a splined crank and clutch at the $500-600 price point if the crank met my other requirements.

I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days.
I think SIP is planning a splined version of their "Uncle Tom" series bell cranks and I can't remember where I've seen it on FB, but someone has already made a splined smallframe crank for highly tuned engines (maybe it was Fabbri, Crimaz, someone else). Lots of new players nowadays, so I'm pretty sure we'll see some great stuff in the future...
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
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@chandlerman avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
I think SIP is planning a splined version of their "Uncle Tom" series bell cranks and I can't remember where I've seen it on FB, but someone has already made a splined smallframe crank for highly tuned engines (maybe it was Fabbri, Crimaz, someone else). Lots of new players nowadays, so I'm pretty sure we'll see some great stuff in the future...
Yup. It actually puts a silver lining in the fact that I've never finished my P200 build, which will include a 62mm Uncle Tom bell crank.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I'd totally jump on a splined crank and clutch at the $500-600 price point if the crank met my other requirements.

I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days.
You'd need the spline on the Christmas tree, the crank has the small primary gear and not usually the problem.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Not on a largeframe. I'm still a total n00b on smallies, though.
OP
@safis avatar
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
You'd need the spline on the Christmas tree, the crank has the small primary gear and not usually the problem.
Fabbri Racing has done something different on their 5 speed smallie gearbox...
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@swiss1939 avatar
UTC

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P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Fabbri Racing has done something different on their 5 speed smallie gearbox...
5 speed?!

Now that sounds fun.
OP
@safis avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
swiss1939 wrote:
5 speed?!

Now that sounds fun.
Price is not though... ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
OP
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
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UTC quote
So, Malossi upped their discount to 20% on most parts till June 23rd and by also using my points I get a total discount of 36%. Got two more kits for friends, one without a cylinder head since we'll be using an MMW head. Some Malossi p0rn following...

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@108 avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
So, Malossi upped their discount to 20% on most parts till June 23rd and by also using my points I get a total discount of 36%. Got two more kits for friends, one without a cylinder head since we'll be using an MMW head. Some Malossi p0rn following...

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Great savings! I would totally look into the new MHR cylinder…

Too many projects at the moment $$$
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UTC quote
I wanna wear one of those gears around my neck on a big gold chain with a Kangol hat.
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
I wanna wear one of those gears around my neck on a big gold chain with a Kangol hat.
That look only works if you can figure out how to mount a clock in it.
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
That look only works if you can figure out how to mount a clock in it.
I'm sure it can be done. Don't forget the white Adidas.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@safis avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Resurrecting this. Splitting the engine was a PITA. The locating dowels once again seized (they were already rusty from the CNC fluid, although I had cleaned them) and the cases wouldn't separate. I finally managed to split them with "persuasion" and a few nice loud words to Malossi, etc. ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon

Getting the dowels out of the big half was another adventure. After "destroying" them, I decided to make new ones on the lathe. Aluminum FTW…

Tomorrow I'll take some measurements with the new crank to check out the new timings it'll give…
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UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
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UTC quote
1. Any time you use your Vespa gearboxes lathe - it should come with pics. (of the lathe!)
2. I can't believe you split these cases! Brave - You are a glutton for punishment - and consider the source telling you that...

Crank is gorgeous.
Keep posting those great pics.
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UTC quote
Update! Needed to make a new bolt for my crank puller since the crank has a beefy M14x1.5mm end that I didn't notice. Now it makes sense why it came with a nut. Pulled the crank in, new calculations, one more "detune" after Sean's Stella...

Previous timings and new with no gasket and the 0.8mm from before. I think we're still good, lost 10 degrees inlet duration...

Jack, what say you??

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UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
No expense spared, sounds like a new German made crank in there now. As it's a downtune, I wouldn't worry about the 190 degrees. Inlet is slightly wider on those cases. See if it's quick enough before deciding. Sure you have no plan to cut the cases.

I would go with the lower option to start. 124/182. The cobra will still help but out of it's optimum zone. Keep the squish at near 1.2mm, go slightly larger on the base, if you can't get the head gasket to adjust.

We'll talk carbs and jets once it's back in.
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UTC quote
Crank is actually made in Italy by Primatist. Quality is superb and balanced almost to 0 (got 0.01mm at both ends). So you're saying option A?? I will still need a gasket so we're looking at a minimum 0.2mm. Why not option B which is almost the same as the old one, minus the 10 degrees??

Carb, Pinasco SI26 with the MRP vortex and the following jetting (55/100 & 120/BE4/135) that was running really well…
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
They are making cranks for Casa. Must be pretty good. I had only seen the Germans messing with the crank thread sizes but seems like they're all at it.

Option A with the lower timings will ride better. New crank has much less ATDC and suits lower transfers. 0.2 base gasket will put that right in the fun for a Sport kit. What can you get the squish to?

I see we did Jetting before. Stay with that. Just redo the main jet.
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UTC quote
Engine's almost ready. Squish came to 1.25mm with the gaskets I had in hand. Decided to drill the head and put the temp sensor directly on it. It's a pretty "stupid" dimension (M4.5x0.75mm) but to my surprise, my trusty pal who has the most up to date hardware store in town had a tap for it. Handmade crank plate and race spacer in pics. Hopefully I'll finish up tomorrow. Must be ready for upcoming trip on Thursday to our National Vespa meeting...

Photos are a bit crap, sent my iPhone to have the battery replaced and I'm using a "cancerous" Samesung for now... ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon

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OP
@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Finished today, started it up and I have a rattling sound, I think the piston hits the bottom of the cases since this crank "passes" the 1.5mm travel. Will be taking out the cylinder in the morning...
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
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Jet Eye Master
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UTC quote
Might just be touching the head gasket. Unusual for the vertex piston to touch the crank.
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Might just be touching the head gasket. Unusual for the vertex piston to touch the crank.
Maybe. I'll know in the morning…
⬆️    About 7 months elapsed    ⬇️
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@safis avatar
UTC

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UTC quote
Engine's out again. Malossi silent blocks are super hard, worse than the Clauss ones. If you want a permanent numbness on your balls, ass and probably get some fillings undone, go for the Malossi... ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon

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@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Silent blocks are in. Had to cut a piece of my compressor since it was fouling the top end and it was the first time doing silent blocks this way. It was always a job for my hydraulic press on empty cases...

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@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Location: Nashville

189 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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Location: Nashville

189 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Your cylinder looks like a shark that's coming for us all...
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@charlieman22 avatar
UTC

Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
@charlieman22 avatar
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UTC quote
Safis - since u r running a cyl head temp sensor - I'm curious what temps u see when long cruising?
Max temp?

That compressor was a tight fit even after the cut! Nice job.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732
Location: London UK
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Engine's out again. Malossi silent blocks are super hard, worse than the Clauss ones. If you want a permanent numbness on your balls, ass and probably get some fillings undone, go for the Malossi... ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon

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Engine looks so clean. That ever get ridden?
I think the pinasco rubber mounts are the middle option. Like a touring choice.
OP
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Safis - since u r running a cyl head temp sensor - I'm curious what temps u see when long cruising?
Max temp?
Not much riding last season but if I recall, I saw higher temps test riding it around our block a few times...
Jack221 wrote:
Engine looks so clean. That ever get ridden?
I think the pinasco rubber mounts are the middle option. Like a touring choice.
Not much riding last season, work, weather, winter, life got in the way. Sunday is our first ride of the year since temps started rising...
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