UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
UTC
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108 wrote: No more clutch woodruff!! (Celebrate) |
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chandlerman wrote: So long as you don't mind paying $1k USD for a crank and however much the clutch cog sets you back, but other than that, totally agree! I'm not a fan on the mushroom clutch cog, just for the reason I haven't found a basket I like which fits. I actually prefer the woodruff setup (something nostalgic about it), but something in my head tells me from an engineering perspective, it can't take those loads from a tuned setup ⚠️ Last edited by 108 on UTC; edited 1 time
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chandlerman wrote: So long as you don't mind paying $1k USD for a crank and however much the clutch cog sets you back, but other than that, totally agree! Crank and Clutch for less than a Lambretta Crank or Clutch https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-crankshaft-kit-sip-performance-geared-disc-valve_45029300 |
The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2042 Location: PNW from LBC |
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I would consider this toothed crank & clutch option. Once you get into the true performance parts category, the cost for these is on par with comparable options.
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UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
UTC
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GeekLion wrote: I would consider this toothed crank & clutch option. Once you get into the true performance parts category, the cost for these is on par with comparable options. I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days. |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
UTC
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chandlerman wrote: I'd totally jump on a splined crank and clutch at the $500-600 price point if the crank met my other requirements. I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days. |
UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
UTC
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SaFiS wrote: I think SIP is planning a splined version of their "Uncle Tom" series bell cranks and I can't remember where I've seen it on FB, but someone has already made a splined smallframe crank for highly tuned engines (maybe it was Fabbri, Crimaz, someone else). Lots of new players nowadays, so I'm pretty sure we'll see some great stuff in the future... |
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9758 Location: seattle/athens |
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chandlerman wrote: I'd totally jump on a splined crank and clutch at the $500-600 price point if the crank met my other requirements. I was a little sad to see that the SIP option only seems to be available for disc builds on largeframes. Looks like smallframe is where all the high power tuning excitement is these days. |
UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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V oodoo wrote: You'd need the spline on the Christmas tree, the crank has the small primary gear and not usually the problem. |
Ossessionato
P208, Stella VMC Stelvio 187, Stella 150, VNX1T, V9A1T, V9B1T, 02 Sportster XLH1208
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4110 Location: Staten Island, NY |
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SaFiS wrote: Fabbri Racing has done something different on their 5 speed smallie gearbox... Now that sounds fun. |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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So, Malossi upped their discount to 20% on most parts till June 23rd and by also using my points I get a total discount of 36%. Got two more kits for friends, one without a cylinder head since we'll be using an MMW head. Some Malossi p0rn following...
Positive
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SaFiS wrote: So, Malossi upped their discount to 20% on most parts till June 23rd and by also using my points I get a total discount of 36%. Got two more kits for friends, one without a cylinder head since we'll be using an MMW head. Some Malossi p0rn following... Too many projects at the moment $$$ |
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UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
UTC
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orwell84 wrote: I wanna wear one of those gears around my neck on a big gold chain with a Kangol hat. |
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chandlerman wrote: That look only works if you can figure out how to mount a clock in it. |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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Resurrecting this. Splitting the engine was a PITA. The locating dowels once again seized (they were already rusty from the CNC fluid, although I had cleaned them) and the cases wouldn't separate. I finally managed to split them with "persuasion" and a few nice loud words to Malossi, etc.
Getting the dowels out of the big half was another adventure. After "destroying" them, I decided to make new ones on the lathe. Aluminum FTW… Tomorrow I'll take some measurements with the new crank to check out the new timings it'll give… |
UTC
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4119 Location: california |
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4119 Location: california |
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1. Any time you use your Vespa gearboxes lathe - it should come with pics. (of the lathe!)
2. I can't believe you split these cases! Brave - You are a glutton for punishment - and consider the source telling you that... Crank is gorgeous. Keep posting those great pics. |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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Update! Needed to make a new bolt for my crank puller since the crank has a beefy M14x1.5mm end that I didn't notice. Now it makes sense why it came with a nut. Pulled the crank in, new calculations, one more "detune" after Sean's Stella...
Previous timings and new with no gasket and the 0.8mm from before. I think we're still good, lost 10 degrees inlet duration... Jack, what say you?? |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
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No expense spared, sounds like a new German made crank in there now. As it's a downtune, I wouldn't worry about the 190 degrees. Inlet is slightly wider on those cases. See if it's quick enough before deciding. Sure you have no plan to cut the cases.
I would go with the lower option to start. 124/182. The cobra will still help but out of it's optimum zone. Keep the squish at near 1.2mm, go slightly larger on the base, if you can't get the head gasket to adjust. We'll talk carbs and jets once it's back in. |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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Crank is actually made in Italy by Primatist. Quality is superb and balanced almost to 0 (got 0.01mm at both ends). So you're saying option A?? I will still need a gasket so we're looking at a minimum 0.2mm. Why not option B which is almost the same as the old one, minus the 10 degrees??
Carb, Pinasco SI26 with the MRP vortex and the following jetting (55/100 & 120/BE4/135) that was running really well… |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
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They are making cranks for Casa. Must be pretty good. I had only seen the Germans messing with the crank thread sizes but seems like they're all at it.
Option A with the lower timings will ride better. New crank has much less ATDC and suits lower transfers. 0.2 base gasket will put that right in the fun for a Sport kit. What can you get the squish to? I see we did Jetting before. Stay with that. Just redo the main jet. |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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Engine's almost ready. Squish came to 1.25mm with the gaskets I had in hand. Decided to drill the head and put the temp sensor directly on it. It's a pretty "stupid" dimension (M4.5x0.75mm) but to my surprise, my trusty pal who has the most up to date hardware store in town had a tap for it. Handmade crank plate and race spacer in pics. Hopefully I'll finish up tomorrow. Must be ready for upcoming trip on Thursday to our National Vespa meeting...
Photos are a bit crap, sent my iPhone to have the battery replaced and I'm using a "cancerous" Samesung for now... |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Finished today, started it up and I have a rattling sound, I think the piston hits the bottom of the cases since this crank "passes" the 1.5mm travel. Will be taking out the cylinder in the morning...
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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quote
Jack221 wrote: Might just be touching the head gasket. Unusual for the vertex piston to touch the crank. |
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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quote
Engine's out again. Malossi silent blocks are super hard, worse than the Clauss ones. If you want a permanent numbness on your balls, ass and probably get some fillings undone, go for the Malossi...
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OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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quote
Silent blocks are in. Had to cut a piece of my compressor since it was fouling the top end and it was the first time doing silent blocks this way. It was always a job for my hydraulic press on empty cases...
Positive
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UTC
Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 10545 Location: Nashville 189 Days Since Last Explosion |
UTC
Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4119 Location: california |
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4119 Location: california |
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Safis - since u r running a cyl head temp sensor - I'm curious what temps u see when long cruising?
Max temp? That compressor was a tight fit even after the cut! Nice job. |
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4732 Location: London UK |
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SaFiS wrote: Engine's out again. Malossi silent blocks are super hard, worse than the Clauss ones. If you want a permanent numbness on your balls, ass and probably get some fillings undone, go for the Malossi... I think the pinasco rubber mounts are the middle option. Like a touring choice. |
OP
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4456 Location: Veria, Greece |
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charlieman22 wrote: Safis - since u r running a cyl head temp sensor - I'm curious what temps u see when long cruising? Max temp? Jack221 wrote: Engine looks so clean. That ever get ridden? I think the pinasco rubber mounts are the middle option. Like a touring choice. |
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