Modern Vespa

Hello,

I have an appointment to purchase a restored 1959 Allstate this Saturday from a private party. The scooter was restored by a local shop here in SF and the gentleman that did the restoration has been very helpful. The seller is not giving it away but considering I don't have to do anything to it, and looking at what I think the market value is, It seems a fair price or at least one I can live with.

I have been reading through many of the recent posts on this site and trying to find as much info on the internet as possible related to this particular scooter and am finding it pretty daunting. It's not real clear what motor came with this year or what type of induction. I am not sure even sure the motor in it is original or date correct. My concern is, I am purchasing it for the fun factor but also so (after COVID) my wife and I can get around the city without having to deal with traffic and parking issues that come with living in SF. I understand that this scooter was a dog 70 years ago, add my fat ass and my perfectly shaped wife to the mix and it might be a challenge to not get ran over. So, I have been trying to figure out what I can do to put a little pep in the old girls step. It seem that I can't do that without knowing exactly what motor I am dealing with and the reason for this post.

Once I have position, I can check the model on the engine easily enough and expect it to be a VNA type motor. It's my understanding that the VNA came in both piston ported and rotary ported. I think the difference is where the carburetor sits in relation to the motor but I don't actually understand the difference in the motor itself. I have seem posts that say the piston is better and I have also seen it said that the rotary is better. Then there is the issue of what can actually be done to it. My only experience with a two stroke scooter was when I was kid and had a Yamaha YSR 50. I rejetted it and put an aftermarket pipe on and it went from 30 to 65 MPH and would pull wheelies in the first three gears. I do know that whatever motor is in the scooter was completely gone thru. Would the rejet/pipe approach work?

If I could get some advice on how to determine the motor I have and what my options are for increasing low end acceleration, it would be very helpful.

Thank you in advance

Welcome.

Lots to digest there. Quick spitball:

First and foremost... Ask the seller to provide the engine and frame number. No reason that they shouldn't make that info available. You can then check and see exactly what you have on the scoothelp serial number page.

https://www.scooterhelp.com/serial/ves.serial.numbers.html

Mods: Pipe and rejetting will help. New upgraded top end would help. Converting to one of the new Electronic Ignition with variable timing will help ... but that's not the easiest thing as you have to change some wiring and the brake switch.

All that said. It might run well for 2 up on flat roads but could be a dog 2 up on hills without upgrading the top end and the ignition.

YMMV
FWIW
etc
etc

Welcome to the forum.

Second what Birdsnest said. The best way to determine what motor is in the scoot is to check the serial number on scooterhelp.com. It will be stamped on right side of the casing. If it was restored by a shop, the seller should have receipts detailing what was done to it.

Allstates were anything but power plants from the factory. If you're planning to use it to ride two up around San Francisco you're going to need a lot more than a pipe and a rejet. Besides being slow, the suspensions were crude and not exactly suited for high spirited riding. It's all doable and you can get plenty of help here. Are you mechanically inclined? How big is your wallet?

We love pictures. Post some pics of the scoot and let's see what you're dealing with.

I really appreciate the input and sorry for the novel, it seemed necessary.

The front suspension was upgraded to included the dampener/shock, whatever its called and I can get around with a set of tools. I am glad to post pictures but will wait until I am the actual owner. Once the transaction is complete, I am heading to the builder's shop to have him give it a once over and provide as much info as he can. I'd like to then run that by you all for a sanity check/opinions on how best to proceed.

As for wallet, its not a vintage Porsche how bad could it be? As long as I am not ruining anything, I am up for the challenge.

Again, thank you.

Welcome to the forum!

I third BirdsNest and SoCalGuys info.

I've got a 62 Allstate that was original. If this is a true "restore", it'll come without a speedometer, and the biggest issue is the front suspension. There were some back room deals between Piaggio and Sears, who sold the Allstate through the Sears catalog. The front suspension is missing a damper, whereas the Vespa VBB model of the same year did have a damper.

And my 62 was 125cc. Essentially 45 mph on the flats, by myself, tucked. So upgrading the piston/cylinder would be a must if you're riding two up.

But I will tell you this - I LOVE my 62 Allstate. It's in the middle of having it's engine rebuilt. You can check it out here: The tale of two rebuilds - VNB2 and VNB5

And my 62 thread is here: 62 Allstate - getting it back on the road (B62's thread)

Please post pics and show what you're looking at!

Here is the link to the builder that built it.

https://www.secondchancescooters.com

It's not a true resto if you consider a true resto to be original stock. Like I said, he did install a dampener and the speedo seems to be in place, though I understood the speedo to be an option for purchase at the time.

The scooter is the top middle picture on the home page and the first picture on his restoration page by clicking on "restoration" and not a specific build.

You are in good hands with Second Chance. you wont get garbage or BS etc. But...... there is always a but.... I suggest a different model as your first scoot.

Welcome to the Allstate club! I'm rebuilding a 58 currently. I ditched the original motor and am putting in a PX150E with a VMC177 kit on it. It's hilly around me so I needed more umph but my hills are your speed bumps so I'd highly suggest a top end kit so long as yours is not piston ported. Not much you can do with them as far as upgrades go. (edit- not much you can do to upgrade a piston ported one I meant)

Second chance won't pull a fast one on you so you're at least good there.

Again, I appreciate the wisdom.

Joe seems like a good guy. Having never reached out to him before, he actually called me after I sent him an email on his day off to chat about this scooter. That was impressive, i am not even a customer, service. Good customer service, especially in San Francisco is not the norm.

I am curious to know why (almogavar69) you wouldn't recommend the '59 Allstate?

I am new to scootering, not motorcycles. I have years of experience both on the street and track. I put 20k commuter miles in the bay area on a BMW S1000RR in a single year. This scooter seems like a great toy, underpowered as it maybe.

He is ! Why not Allstate? Slow and underpowered, especially for SF, 8" wheels are scary (more so if you are used to motorcycles). It really wont be fun : ( But, if your heart is set on it give it a try!!

Makes perfect sense, thank you. My wife, wants this scooter. I'll make a deal with ya. If its as you say and I think you are probably correct, Ill let her put it around and I'll get one with more grit!

Sometimes you have to sell the boss before you can go all in!

Yeah. Naw.
Not at all. if the front end has a dampner and the brakes are sorted the difference between 8's and 10's is minimal.

^ You beat me to it.

NOW you see the light!

Just start out getting it running well and ride it around, it may not really need that much. Then you'll know what you have, know what she'll do and you may hop that up some if you like. But you need to start looking for ideally a Rally 200, or Sprint or GL if you prefer tens & can't find a Rally, and hop that up OR just get a lovely P200 and take advantage of clever Piaggio evolution.

No big hurry, but start combing Craigs & ScootNet & lay in the weeds. Unfortunately you'll soon find out just one of these is not enough, because they usually tend to be rather unreliable.

Welcome aboard!

qascooter - Before yesterday, I had not heard of Florence OR. This morning, I found out that some old friend of the family moved there a few years ago! its a crazy small world.

Small world indeed! Don't tell anybody, but it doesn't rain here near as much as people think, and you can ride year round here...

Oh, to add on to what Voodoo was saying - I've got a P200 and a Stella 150, so B-62 is my "around town" scooter, where Ruby, the P200 is my go anywhere, do anything scooter. Maybe someday I'll get the time to ride it down to SoCal and visit family

+1 on 8" wheels. I love riding my Allstate, it feels like a little sports car compared to my SUV P200.

Plus one. Aw HELL yeah, keep it pure and on eights no matter what, get ANOTHER ten inch bike. What he said, a sports car & SUV. Or maybe, a go cart w/ eights and a sports car & tens.

Here she be. Took all day! Was like pulling teeth!

And here

And

And finally

Wow, she's a beaut! Congratulations!

I like that dune buggy too.

That is a real nice looking bike.

Thanks guys. Super excited about the old girl

yeah that's a winner for sure. be ready to get your hands dirty, they all take some work to keep going but with that as a starting point I'm sure you will do just fine.

You could always toss a turbocharger on that thing!

I kid, but when I insured my Yamaha Vino the guy on the other end asked if it was modified at all with nitrus or a turbo. I can not even imagine a turbo'd scooter. 43 yr old me is horrified by that idea, 20 yr old me thinks that's a perfectly acceptable thing to try.... luckily I'm 43 so no turbo.

I lived in Hawaii for a few years in the early 2000's. the kids and adults take 50cc scooters and turbo/nitro these badboys! They do not require registration or a license to operate them. You regularly would see a kid or adult doing 9 million with nothing but board shorts and slippers (Flip flops) They even drag race them at the 1/8 mile track north of Honolulu. Craziness

Ok,

I am not sure how well this will be received. I would like to change the rear seat to a saddle like the front. Ad a luggage rack farther back. Add a spare tire that is up against the leg screen and change the seat covers to a light tan, almost orange with a matching spare tire cover. I realize this isnt stock but I like the look of the two saddles and I think the color will really pop against the blue. Finally I would like to ad a low clear fly screen and mirrors.

Thoughts?

Thanks.

You want to add a second spring saddle seat? Like a Lambretta?

I've seen that before, using one of the rear Lambretta seats, and some fabricated bracket to hold it.

Mirrors are a challenge. That headset doesn't have any place to hold brackets. You can use the clip on legshield ones (that will bend the legshield if the mirror hits anything).

Or this style. Cuppini makes brackets that go around the outside to hold mirrors. I can't tell if you have the one-piece or split headset on your Allstate. They probably don't work on the split style, bc the cover is sheet metal. If it's the one piece, they work.

https://www.scooterworks.com/Cuppini-Mirror-Set-2-Mirrors-and-Brackets-VNB-VBB-GS-P6852.aspx

I like these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stadium-Rectangular-Leg-Shield-Mirror/dp/B0033R88UQ

Thank you for the info. I will have to check to see if its a one piece or split. I am assuming that if mirrors were easily installed that they would be. Would any one know if the bar end mirrors would work for this model?

Thank for the input on the second saddle, yes like a Lambretta but its not a deal breaker if I cant. I also cant seem to find a quality, non ebay replacement seat covers in the color I am looking. I might have to seek out an upholsterer to get the color I want.

The issue with a bar end mirror is that the tubes you mount the mirror in rotates. As you apply throttle or change gears the mirror moves.

That is an excellent point!

On my Allstate I started with legshield mirrors that I didn't like (I'm used to the ones on my P200). I went with this mirror mount that attaches to the headset bolt: http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Mirrors/MIRBRACKVBB-L
I liked it, so I added the right mirror mount and longer headset bolt. It was fine until after riding for awhile, then the headset bolt kept loosening which is not good. Then I ordered this that mounts with the 2 bolts under the headset: https://www.scooterworks.com/Mirror-Bracket-Both-Sides-VSB-VBB-VNB-VS5--P7480.aspx?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjKqABhDLARIsABbJrGlOidJWxSfadeuTmblqiJ7JgVjKkAAByUOhT4GdMenm6xfFSc9p6pQaArWXEALw_wcB
The problem with this one is that there's no hole for the bolt that holds on the speedometer, so I drilled one. Mounting it was a pain in the butt, but it worked for a few months until last week when the mount broke near where I drilled the hole. Now I'm back to just the one mirror attached to the headset bolt. If the headset bolt starts loosening again I'll have to go back to legshield mirrors. I'd run it without mirrors if the ticket wasn't so expensive if you get pulled over.

Thank you memtnbike! I appreciate the information.

I do too - one of these days I'll cough up the cash for one.

$150 for a set of mirrors is a bit expensive, better be great mirrors.

They're worth it. Just be glad if you only have one scooter that you want to install them on. It gets real expensive real quick when you buy 4 sets.